(01-19-2020, 08:18 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Miami has just as many holes as the Bengals. Why would they mortgage their foreseeable future for a QB with no way to build around him?

Crazier things have happened.  I'm just saying, this appears to be one of those times a crazy deal could be offered.  I'm not saying take it, but at least think about it.  

(01-19-2020, 05:15 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: You may be right and I don't have a problem with drafting Burrow, but if a crazy deal is thrown at us, we think about it.  Burrow hasn't played an NFL game yet.  We can't be sure he's our franchise QB.

People put too much thought into it. 

Was Carson the answer? Was Dalton? Was any draft in the last 16 years that didn't include a QB?

He's the best chance, on paper, to improve the Bengals the most. If he fails, it's not like that hasn't happened for decades around here and there's no guarantee that trading the pick to get more picks would be better. 

It's a no-brainer and it's just as likely or not as trading the #1OA for Miami's 3 1st round picks. None of those guys have played in the NFL yet either. 

(01-19-2020, 05:27 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: That's all I'm saying.

But why couldn't they be saying that they're not interest in trading it to drive the cost up?

If teams know up front you're not interested, and they really want it, they're going to come harder knowing you said you're not interested. 

(01-19-2020, 06:52 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: MAYBE that's what Burrow represents.  He hasn't played an NFL down.  We're putting a lot on his shoulders.  People expect him to fix the Bengals single-handedly.

No one expects that. And it's not been said anywhere. 

(01-19-2020, 07:12 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I saw a stat the other day that showed that over the last 16 years, 14 teams who had 5 or less wins and finished last in their division, ended up winning their division and going to the playoffs the following year. That doesn't even include teams like the Rams or 49ers, who had 5 or less wins but weren't last in their division, or teams like the Bengals, who went to the playoffs after winning only 4 games in 2010, but didn't win the division. 

There are numerous examples of teams that have turned things around dramatically in just one season. This is why I'm both really excited and also very wary going into this offseason. If they draft Burrow and add some quality pieces with free agency and the draft, then 2020 could be a pretty damn interesting year. If they half-ass the offseason and waste the opportunity they have in front of them (new QB, picking 1st in every round, lots of cap, etc) then it's going to be very disappointing and frustrating.

The NFL structure is set up that way. No matter how bad you were the year before, you have the opportunity to spend money in FA and make good draft picks to be better the next year. 

Five year plans were for before FA started. 

(01-19-2020, 09:38 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Crazier things have happened.  I'm just saying, this appears to be one of those times a crazy deal could be offered.  I'm not saying take it, but at least think about it.  

It would be tempting but I believe that the right way would be with Burrow, the draft and free agency. We all know MB's history with free agency but we can dream.

(01-19-2020, 09:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: People put too much thought into it. 

Was Carson the answer? Was Dalton? Was any draft in the last 16 years that didn't include a QB?

He's the best chance, on paper, to improve the Bengals the most. If he fails, it's not like that hasn't happened for decades around here and there's no guarantee that trading the pick to get more picks would be better. 

It's a no-brainer and it's just as likely or not as trading the #1OA for Miami's 3 1st round picks. None of those guys have played in the NFL yet either. 

It's quite possible I'm putting too much thought into it.  I actually want Burrow, but if some insane offer came along....maybe I wouldn't be upset if they took it.  And Burrow's very outstanding play in the National Championship sets the stage for some crazy offers.  

As far as Dalton and Carson, Dalton had more AFC North wins and more playoff appearances as a Bengal than Carson because Carson quit.  If Carson had stayed and waited for AJ and the great defense we had for a while, Carson might have helped us win it all.  Later in Arizona, he had a chance to go to the Super Bowl, but blew it by throwing six interceptions.  Lets see him blame that on the Bengals.  Carson was weak mentally, and still is.  He's still blaming Mike Brown for everything.   Dalton has great character, but not the great arm or the great personality.  Burrow may have it all.  He may not.  We'll see.  

(01-19-2020, 05:07 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Possible though I prefer Oakland trade.. both #1s, next year #2 and Carr that would be something I would have to look at 

No and No.

Regardless of what their saying, there's a lot of time between now and draft day. I think faulk is right tho, saying your not trading makes teams who want him bad enough, are going to come harder with their deals before presenting it. I want Burrow on the team but I think you need to at least listen. Our stubbornness has been our demise in past years. However, if MB doesn't make moves in FA to fix some of our issues, then Burrow is not going to be able to help this team as much as we hope.

(01-19-2020, 10:02 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No one expects that. And it's not been said anywhere. 

No one is saying burrow is all we need.  Bengals are several players away from even competing for play off spots. Burrow represents the most difficult piece 25+ teams look for every year in FA and the draft. Its infinitely easier to find other competent players in every other position.

The other part of the equation is staying healthy, or getting healthy at the right time. 

(01-20-2020, 11:23 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: No one is saying burrow is all we need.  Bengals are several players away from even competing for play off spots. Burrow represents the most difficult piece 25+ teams look for every year in FA and the draft. Its infinitely easier to find other competent players in every other position.

The other part of the equation is staying healthy, or getting healthy at the right time. 

I think that's fair.  I do think some people will be upset if Burrow doesn't lead us to a Super Bowl the first year.  Or if he has a learning curve.  Trust me, you'll see the comments.

(01-19-2020, 03:32 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28514417/sources-bengals-no-intention-trading-no-1-overall-draft-pick?sf228464393=1

Hopefully this quiets a few more people and dispels some rumors.

LOL..Doesn't mean anything right now and they better say this because they know there will be more than a few teams that want JB especially Carolina..They better bargain from a standpoint of strength like they've never done before....

(01-20-2020, 10:09 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: It's quite possible I'm putting too much thought into it.  I actually want Burrow, but if some insane offer came along....maybe I wouldn't be upset if they took it.  And Burrow's very outstanding play in the National Championship sets the stage for some crazy offers.  

As far as Dalton and Carson, Dalton had more AFC North wins and more playoff appearances as a Bengal than Carson because Carson quit.  If Carson had stayed and waited for AJ and the great defense we had for a while, Carson might have helped us win it all.  Later in Arizona, he had a chance to go to the Super Bowl, but blew it by throwing six interceptions.  Lets see him blame that on the Bengals.  Carson was weak mentally, and still is.  He's still blaming Mike Brown for everything.   Dalton has great character, but not the great arm or the great personality.  Burrow may have it all.  He may not.  We'll see.  

Good stuff. I posted several times, years ago, that Carson wasn't mentally tough enough to excel in the playoffs but i've come around to not giving him too much grief for "quitting". Mike Brown is an ass of an owner and several guys before him "quit" in their own way. I don't have a problem, now, with what any of them did, due to MB being such a crappy owner. I can't really say that i wouldn't do the same thing after a few years. 

Dalton didn't do it. That's just the kind of guy he is. A lot of others didn't do it, but i understand better now why the others did do it. 

(01-19-2020, 05:23 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I'm hoping for a little more gamesmanship by the front office. Hopefully they'll at least hear people out for the pick. Another team could offer something stupid.

Agree with this and with Bonnie's posts as well. Always listen because everything is for sale at the right price. 

But also believe this is a little gamesmanship in letting other teams know that the ante is extremely high or do not even bother offering. 

Love Burrow but would except Bonnie's first scenario of the Dolphins first 3 picks giving the Bengals the 5th, 18th, 26th, and 33rd pick if offered.

Ultimately hope it is Burrow and that he is the real thing in lieu of the next Tim Couch, Jamarcus Russell, or Ryan Leaf who were all can't miss #1 picks who flopped. 

(01-20-2020, 12:20 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I think that's fair.  I do think some people will be upset if Burrow doesn't lead us to a Super Bowl the first year.  Or if he has a learning curve.  Trust me, you'll see the comments.

He will have games that will bring him to reality, games that he will learn from and players with a skill set he hasnt seen before.


Trust me there will be some growing pains. But when he puts it all together we will be in awe I think.

(01-20-2020, 10:51 AM)HarleyDog Wrote:  However, if MB doesn't make moves in FA to fix some of our issues, then Burrow is not going to be able to help this team as much as we hope.

This is my fear. If the FO plans to just ride the Burrow signing to get fans inspired to by tickets. They will note the return of Williams and other draft choices as the resurrection of the team while signing second rate FAs and current veterans as the path to success. I could see this playing out while old Mikey schemes to make the most possible profit the league will allow. That in a nutshell has been his master plan. He hasn't veered of the plan for years but maybe ,just maybe, this is the year.

(01-20-2020, 01:03 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: This is my fear. If the FO plans to just ride the Burrow signing to get fans inspired to by tickets. They will note the return of Williams and other draft choices as the resurrection of the team while signing second rate FAs and current veterans as the path to success. I could see this playing out while old Mikey schemes to make the most possible profit the league will allow. That in a nutshell has been his master plan. He hasn't veered of the plan for years but maybe ,just maybe, this is the year.

As fans, most of us hope this is the year that MB does something different. We seem to hope this on a yearly basis. Yet again, we shall see.

(01-20-2020, 12:36 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Agree with this and with Bonnie's posts as well. Always listen because everything is for sale at the right price. 

But also believe this is a little gamesmanship in letting other teams know that the ante is extremely high or do not even bother offering. 

Love Burrow but would except Bonnie's first scenario of the Dolphins first 3 picks giving the Bengals the 5th, 18th, 26th, and 33rd pick if offered.

Ultimately hope it is Burrow and that he is the real thing in lieu of the next Tim Couch, Jamarcus Russell, or Ryan Leaf who were all can't miss #1 picks who flopped. 

One of the concerns I've seen raised is that Burrow is a one-year wonder.

Here is Ryan Leaf's final college year
55.4% completion rate for 3968 yds, with 34 TD's and 11 INT's for a 158.7 rate

and Burrow's jr. year
57.8% for 2894 yds with 16 TD's and 5 INT's for a 133.2 rate

While Leaf was better, it wasn't by a landslide, and compared to Burrow this year...there is NO comparison.

76.3 completion rate for 5681 yds. with 60 TD's and 6 INT's for a rating of 202.

I don't know that there has even been that kind of season by a QB playing against the highest level competition. Don't trade the pick. Sign an OL in free agency. Draft another with the 2nd pick and with Jonah coming back, that should yield some decent protection. Then start filling the other holes. And Dammit, use free agency Mikey.

(01-19-2020, 06:52 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: MAYBE that's what Burrow represents.  He hasn't played an NFL down.  We're putting a lot on his shoulders.  People expect him to fix the Bengals single-handedly.

Being the #1 Overall Pick and a QB brings higher expectations and standards for that player.

I guess I'm more ok with them selecting Burrow and not listening to offers if they plan on getting some of the top free agents. If it's status quo in free agency and they only plan to improve through the draft, I'd want to get the king's ransom for the #1 pick.