(01-20-2020, 01:04 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Let's take a look at last year's offseason and draft and see if ZT and the front office thought the O-line needed help:

Drafted Jonah Williams
Signed Miller
Drafted Jordan
Tried to move up in the draft to get an O-lineman

I get why people don't think they value the o-line, but the reality is that they made a significant effort to upgrade the line

You forgot they extended Hart and signed a player who didn't even play the 2018 season. They did some good moves but also had some head scratchers also.

(01-20-2020, 01:30 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You forgot they extended Hart and signed a player who didn't even play the 2018 season. They did some good moves but also had some head scratchers also.

I had no problem with them bringing back Hart as a swing tackle.  His contract has some outs in it.  They signed a guy that Turner had worked with in the past.  

I expect them to keep upgrading the line this year as well.  Hopefully they hit on some picks.  At least it's on the radar for the team.

(01-20-2020, 12:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Bengals played the Browns twice (30th rush D) and the Dolphins (27th rush D) in the last 4 games of the season.

He did well against the 6th ranked Patriots rush D, but then you have to look at the context that when you lose by 21 points, they are going to let you run all day long for decent gains because it's in their interest to let the clock run and end the game.

Mixon's 4 100-yard games in 2019 came against...
Browns 30th rush D
Browns 30th rush D
36 point loss against the Ravens
21 point loss against the Patriots

Also worth noting that Mixon averaged under 2.5 yards per carry in 2 of the last 5 games of the season. I wouldn't call that "excelled".

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Mixon vs Browns' 30th Rush D:  49 carries/308 yards (6.29 YPC)/3 rush TD
Mixon vs other 14 games: 229 carries/829 yards (3.62 YPC)/2 rush TD

I guess it only counts as a good game if you play a game against the best teams. I guess a poor line is only detrimental to Dalton . Mixon don't need no stinking line to have a good game. Top ten running back with the line and rest of the offense production is definitely reason too feel optimistic about the future.

(01-20-2020, 01:04 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Let's take a look at last year's offseason and draft and see if ZT and the front office thought the O-line needed help:

Drafted Jonah Williams
Signed Miller
Drafted Jordan
Tried to move up in the draft to get an O-lineman

I get why people don't think they value the o-line, but the reality is that they made a significant effort to upgrade the line

The Bengals have definitely tried to address the line as a high priority in the draft and via trade but it hasn’t worked out so far. Drafting Ced ,Fisher and Price set them back. The Glenn trade didn’t work out but at least they were aggressive. Tobin needs to be on the hot seat with his recent drafts. I hope to god Williams and Jordan work out. They could be more aggressive with there free agency approach Miller has been a below average guard the majority of his career they can upgraded this season with a great free agent guard class. The other 4 teams mentioned in this tread have drafted well at o-line and added upgrades in free agency.

Although Mixon will be a big player for us next season, We need to make sure we play to the strengths of our QB and incorporate all our weapons.

I also don't see us making a big move on the O-Line as I mentioned in another thread due to Zac saying this in regards to the O-Line "I thought there was lot of growth there in the back half of the season. If you look at Jonah Williams, to me we get two first–round picks this year. Jonah got a chance to go through spring ball and got exposed to what NFL life is like, but he didn't play for us. We get a chance to get that talent on the field at left tackle. That's a huge bonus for us. We already know one of the first-round picks is the left tackle"

I expect a few big moves on the Defence due to being thin on the ground at corner and major moves at LB

(01-20-2020, 01:48 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I guess it only counts as a good game if you play a game against the best teams. I guess a poor line is only detrimental to Dalton . Mixon don't need no stinking line to have a good game. Top ten running back with the line and rest of the offense production is definitely reason too feel optimistic about the future.

Lol, how do you figure Top 10? He's not even the 3rd best RB in the division. (Chubb, Ingram, Hunt).. unless you're going purely on 2019 rushing yard total and ignoring important things like YPC, TDs, and great running backs who got hurt.

There's zero chance Mixon is a Top-10 RB in the NFL.

There are 4 Pro Bowl RBs in the AFCN alone and Joe Mixon isn't one of them, but I would still have him only tied for 4th best RB in the division.

(01-20-2020, 01:04 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Let's take a look at last year's offseason and draft and see if ZT and the front office thought the O-line needed help:

Drafted Jonah Williams
Signed Miller
Drafted Jordan
Tried to move up in the draft to get an O-lineman

I get why people don't think they value the o-line, but the reality is that they made a significant effort to upgrade the line

Yes but like Mr Miyagi once said... There is no try; only do.

(01-20-2020, 02:51 PM)jason Wrote: Yes but like Mr Miyagi once said... There is no try; only do.

That wasn't Mr. Miyagi it was Oby Kenobie.

(01-20-2020, 03:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That wasn't Mr. Miyagi it was Oby Kenobie.

You're thinking of when Yoda ripped off Miyagi San...

Banzai!!!!!!

(01-20-2020, 10:28 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I agree and disagree (AU165's got it right).

I mean, look at the Chefs game; Titans couldn't run it worth a damn, put the ball  in Tannehill's hand and they were screwed.

The run game indeed helped out the Titans in the first two games, but if you have a QB that can pick your team apart (Mahomes), you will be behind and you can't run it 40 times a game.

Balanced is still the way to go.

What Truck here said. Have to be balanced. Makes you more unpredictable and opens up the Play Action. The Titans/Chiefs game
showed exactly this. Henry was running decent early but once the Chiefs knew it was coming they were able to shut the run game 
down and that resulted in them having to live and die on Tannehill's arm. Mahomes will win that showdown every time.

Have to have both a running game and passing game. I am encouraged by late last years blocking in the run game.

Should just get better with Jonah coming in and the Line growing under Turner and another player or two added to the Line.

Especially if you have a talented QB like Burrow that scares Defenses.

(01-20-2020, 02:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lol, how do you figure Top 10? He's not even the 3rd best RB in the division. (Chubb, Ingram, Hunt).. unless you're going purely on 2019 rushing yard total and ignoring important things like YPC, TDs, and great running backs who got hurt.

There's zero chance Mixon is a Top-10 RB in the NFL.

There are 4 Pro Bowl RBs in the AFCN alone and Joe Mixon isn't one of them, but I would still have him only tied for 4th best RB in the division.

Ninth highest total rushing yards in the NFL. Does that count or do you just want to skew the stats to fit your view? AND he did it with what you and others have deemed the worse line in the NFL Belichick calls him one of the best in the NFL. I believe his opinion over yours

(01-20-2020, 04:08 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Ninth highest total rushing yards in the NFL. Does that count or do you just want to skew the stats to fit your view? AND he did it with what you and others have deemed the worse line in the NFL Belichick calls him one of the best in the NFL. I believe his opinion over yours

Which is a terrible way to gauge if a RB is top-10 or not. There's more than just "yArDs" that goes into it.

Here's Mixon and the 6 RBs behind him on the rushing yards list...

Joe Mixon: 1,137 yards (4.1 YPC)/5 TD in 16 games
Dalvin Cook: 1,135 yards (4.5 YPC)/13 TD in 14 games
Marlon Mack: 1,091 yards (4.4 YPC)/8 TD in 14 games
Aaron Jones: 1,084 yards (4.6 YPC)/16 TD in 16 games
Carlos Hyde: 1,070 yards (4.4 YPC)/6 TD in 16 games
Mark Ingram: 1,018 yards (5.0 YPC)/10 TD in 15 games
Saquon Barkley: 1,003 yards (4.6 YPC)/6 TD in 13 games

According to your method, Joe Mixon is a better RB than Dalvin Cook because he got 2 more rushing yards... despite averaging .4 yards less per carry, and having 8 less TDs and doing it in 2 less games.

- - - - - - - - 

Does YPC and TDs (and, you know, context) not matter, or do you just want to skew stats to fit your view?

(01-20-2020, 02:51 PM)jason Wrote: Yes but like Mr Miyagi once said... There is no try; only do.

Completely agree, but at least they are giving it attention.  There's always hits and misses.  We've missed enough, probably time for some good fortune.

(01-20-2020, 02:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lol, how do you figure Top 10? He's not even the 3rd best RB in the division. (Chubb, Ingram, Hunt).. unless you're going purely on 2019 rushing yard total and ignoring important things like YPC, TDs, and great running backs who got hurt.

There's zero chance Mixon is a Top-10 RB in the NFL.

There are 4 Pro Bowl RBs in the AFCN alone and Joe Mixon isn't one of them, but I would still have him only tied for 4th best RB in the division.

(01-20-2020, 04:31 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Which is a terrible way to gauge if a RB is top-10 or not. There's more than just "yArDs" that goes into it.

Here's Mixon and the 6 RBs behind him on the rushing yards list...

Joe Mixon: 1,137 yards (4.1 YPC)/5 TD  in 16 games
Dalvin Cook: 1,135 yards (4.5 YPC)/13 TD  in 14 games
Marlon Mack: 1,091 yards (4.4 YPC)/8 TD  in 14 games
Aaron Jones: 1,084 yards (4.6 YPC)/16 TD  in 16 games
Carlos Hyde: 1,070 yards (4.4 YPC)/6 TD  in 16 games
Mark Ingram: 1,018 yards (5.0 YPC)/10 TD  in 15 games
Saquon Barkley: 1,003 yards (4.6 YPC)/6 TD  in 13 games

According to your method, Joe Mixon is a better RB than Dalvin Cook because he got 2 more rushing yards... despite averaging .4 yards less per carry, and having 8 less TDs and doing it in 2 less games.

- - - - - - - - 

Does YPC and TDs (and, you know, context) not matter, or do you just want to skew stats to fit your view?

Mixon just needs to be used better, thankfully later on in the year he started to be and he still wasn't used enough in the passing
game. Joe could most assuredly be a top back in the league with a decent O-line in front of him and used more like late in the year and more in the passing game where he has great hands.

For the life of me I have never understood why we only run it with him to keep us more predictable, he is a great pass catcher and he can make defenders miss and he can run over people and spin out of tackles unlike WR's.

(01-20-2020, 01:04 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Let's take a look at last year's offseason and draft and see if ZT and the front office thought the O-line needed help:

Drafted Jonah Williams
Signed Miller
Drafted Jordan
Tried to move up in the draft to get an O-lineman

I get why people don't think they value the o-line, but the reality is that they made a significant effort to upgrade the line

To this day, it still hurts my heart that Jawaan Taylor, Greg Little, Cody Ford and Dalton Risner all went in the 7 picks prior to the Bengals' second round pick, despite our attempts to trade up for one of them.

All 4 of those guys would have been our day 1 starter at RT (who could have played LT during the hell that was Cordy Glenn's injury period) and we wouldn't have the stain that is the Drew Sample pick on our conscience...

(01-20-2020, 05:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Mixon just needs to be used better, thankfully later on in the year he started to be and he still wasn't used enough in the passing
game. Joe could most assuredly be a top back in the league with a decent O-line in front of him and used more like late in the year and more
in the passing game where he has great hands.

For the life of me I have never understood why we only run it with him to keep us more
predictable, he is a great pass catcher and he can make defenders miss and he can run over people and spin out of tackles unlike WR's.

I just don't want to see Jeremy Hill pt 2, where fans convince themselves "if only he gets 25-30 touches per game and has a good OL, he'd be a top RB!" I feel like that's where we are, though. A lot of the time RBs don't get large carries because they just are not doing that well. He actually had a game where he had 10 carries for 2 yards. You simply can't keep handing him the ball at that point.

I think it's because it's a well below average pass blocker. It's the same reason why he doesn't get playing time in the 2 minute drill. Also Zac Taylor's offense is garbage.

(01-20-2020, 05:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I just don't want to see Jeremy Hill pt 2, where fans convince themselves "if only he gets 25-30 touches per game and has a good OL, he'd be a top RB!" I feel like that's where we are, though. A lot of the time RBs don't get large carries because they just are not doing that well. He actually had a game where he had 10 carries for 2 yards. You simply can't keep handing him the ball at that point.

I think it's because it's a well below average pass blocker. It's the same reason why he doesn't get playing time in the 2 minute drill. Also Zac Taylor's offense is garbage.

Difference is what I said, Mixon has great hands unlike Jeremeh who was only a goal line RB by the end of his time here.

Yes, Taylor's Offense was garbage last year and that is why Mixon wasn't used in the passing game enough. With our injuries to our 
WR's last season we should of used more of both Mixon and Gio in the game at the same time and more 2 or even 3 TE sets like the 
49ers do.

Taylor talked about adjusting in the Offseason before but this would of been a good adjustment especially with AJ and Ross
always being injured. Have to run the ball and keep the Offense balanced and use your RB's in the passing game.

Also don't like how we are so predictable about using Gio specifically as a 3rd down scat back and don't use him more on early downs.

Mixon was the best at picking up the blitz of his class of RB's when we drafted him BTW.

(01-20-2020, 05:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Mixon was the best at picking up the blitz of his class of RB's when we drafted him BTW.

And Drew Sample was supposed to be the best blocking TE. Doesn't make each of them any less bad at it.

(01-20-2020, 08:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And Drew Sample was supposed to be the best blocking TE. Doesn't make each of them any less bad at it.

True, they both need to grow in this aspect in the NFL.

Just means they have it in them.

(01-20-2020, 04:31 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Which is a terrible way to gauge if a RB is top-10 or not. There's more than just "yArDs" that goes into it.

Here's Mixon and the 6 RBs behind him on the rushing yards list...

Joe Mixon: 1,137 yards (4.1 YPC)/5 TD  in 16 games
Dalvin Cook: 1,135 yards (4.5 YPC)/13 TD  in 14 games
Marlon Mack: 1,091 yards (4.4 YPC)/8 TD  in 14 games
Aaron Jones: 1,084 yards (4.6 YPC)/16 TD  in 16 games
Carlos Hyde: 1,070 yards (4.4 YPC)/6 TD  in 16 games
Mark Ingram: 1,018 yards (5.0 YPC)/10 TD  in 15 games
Saquon Barkley: 1,003 yards (4.6 YPC)/6 TD  in 13 games

According to your method, Joe Mixon is a better RB than Dalvin Cook because he got 2 more rushing yards... despite averaging .4 yards less per carry, and having 8 less TDs and doing it in 2 less games.

- - - - - - - - 

Does YPC and TDs (and, you know, context) not matter, or do you just want to skew stats to fit your view?

Over 800 of Mixons yards (4.6 YPC) and all of his TDs came in the last 8 games after the blocking change during the by week.