https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/28517018/ranking-nfl-most-productive-2019-rookie-classes-1-32

Quote:Why they're ranked here: Things were ugly for Cincinnati's 2019 draft class. All five players who played at least 150 offensive or defensive snaps earned wins above replacement values below zero, but none of the selections were a bigger disaster than Ryan Finley in his stint at starter. The fourth-round pick's 29.3 overall grade rivaled only Grier's for the lowest of any quarterback in 2019.

How their top pick fared: Offensive tackle Jonah Williams (No. 11 overall) missed the season because of a shoulder injury, but he'll probably step in as an immediate upgrade in 2020 given the state of the Bengals' offensive line in 2019.

Best value pick: N/A

Brutal.

Can't say I disagree with them though.

I get people are mad at Zac and Andy and the waterboy over winning only two games this season.

But we've depleted the team the last several drafts. It's disappointing because we did well at the draft for the early part of the Brown era.

Hopefully we turn things around this year, draft wise.

They're not draft busts, they're delayed developers, dammit!

Taylor’s first draft looks pretty ugly so far. Time will tell, but Jonah Williams better work out or it will set us back even more.

And there is still no defending that Sample pick.

(01-23-2020, 09:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Taylor’s first draft looks pretty ugly so far. Time will tell, but Jonah Williams better work out or it will set us back even more.

And there is still no defending that Sample pick.

Shades of the Jerome Simpson pick..

(01-23-2020, 09:48 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Shades of the Jerome Simpson pick..

At least Simpson had significant athletic upside (which he began to fulfill in 2011, at least a little bit. We got a highlight out of it anyway).

Sample doesn't seem to have any of those athletic or physical upside attributes that would make you want to overdraft him.

He just seems like...a guy.

I tried really hard last off season to be super positive and gave our "genius" new HC the benefit of the doubt that he knew exactly what he was doing, but after his first year I'm definitely right back into my cynical ways haha.

I just feel like, outside of the 11 pick, he wasnt prepared enough for the draft. I really hope he does better this year since the team really needs it.

(01-23-2020, 10:21 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I just feel like, outside of the 11 pick, he wasnt prepared enough for the draft. I really hope he does better this year since the team really needs it.

In his defense, he was hired on February 4th. Brian Callahan wasn't hired until February 7th and Lou Anarumo wasn't hired until February 21st.

So that was a lot of time where we had essentially no coordinators or head coaches actively scouting for us. They all missed the Senior Bowl, for example.

This year they've had since December to scout, so that should help.

We'll skip the part where we realize that your coaches should not be your principal scouts but...you know...Bengals be Bengaling sometimes.

I've said this over and over. It's why I have little to no faith in this coaching staff.

(01-23-2020, 09:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Taylor’s first draft looks pretty ugly so far. Time will tell, but Jonah Williams better work out or it will set us back even more.

And there is still no defending that Sample pick.

I remember the only picks I was even semi-excited about were Jonah Williams, Germaine Pratt, and Trayveon Williams. With Jonah being out all year and Williams out part of the year, the only guy who gave optimism in 2019 was Pratt for me. And even then, he didn't get enough looks until after Preston Brown was released.

(01-23-2020, 10:25 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: In his defense, he was hired on February 4th. Brian Callahan wasn't hired until February 7th and Lou Anarumo wasn't hired until February 21st.

So that was a lot of time where we had essentially no coordinators or head coaches actively scouting for us. They all missed the Senior Bowl, for example.

This year they've had since December to scout, so that should help.

We'll skip the part where we realize that your coaches should not be your principal scouts but...you know...Bengals be Bengaling sometimes.

Great point. And then add to that the inexperience the coaching staff likely had with scouting. It's a good thing they had so many picks to increase the # of hits.

I still have hope for Jonah Williams, Germaine Pratt, Drew Sample, Renell Wren, Michael Jordan, Trayveon Williams, and Jordan Brown.

Rodney Anderson is a huge question mark with a second ACL and Ryan Finley's arm strength was ugly.

But alot of these guys didnt get alot of snaps because they were rookies and sitting behind established starters.

Ehh..it's still early for many of these guys. Their rookie seasons are not everything they'll ever do in the league except for those who have already washed out. Like I've said several times I wouldn't want to be in the business of predicting the futures of young men in any occupation much less sports.

I really think people are too quick to assign blame to Zach Taylor for the Drew Sample pick.

Tell me which of these sounds more likely to value a blocking Tight End: A young (36) offensive minded coach coming out of the ultra-modern Rams system? Or the 80+ year old GM and his lackeys that believe in things like "play in the cold, practice in the cold", "we don't make trades because we're not in the business of making other teams better"?

That pick has Mike Brown and his "Yes Man" Tobin written all over it.

Even if you think Taylor is/was a terrible hire, I just refuse to believe a guy with his background is clamoring for a blocking tight end in round 2.

(01-23-2020, 12:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I really think people are too quick to assign blame to Zach Taylor for the Drew Sample pick.

Tell me which of these sounds more likely to value a blocking Tight End: A young (36) offensive minded coach coming out of the ultra-modern Rams system? Or the 80+ year old GM and his lackeys that believe in things like "play in the cold, practice in the cold", "we don't make trades because we're not in the business of making other teams better"?

That pick has Mike Brown and his "Yes Man" Tobin written all over it.

Even if you think Taylor is/was a terrible hire, I just refuse to believe a guy with his background is clamoring for a blocking tight end in round 2.

I constantly see people on here claiming Mike Brown is all about his “shiny new toys” and always wanting the “sexy” picks. So which is it?

(01-23-2020, 12:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I really think people are too quick to assign blame to Zach Taylor for the Drew Sample pick.

Tell me which of these sounds more likely to value a blocking Tight End: A young (36) offensive minded coach coming out of the ultra-modern Rams system? Or the 80+ year old GM and his lackeys that believe in things like "play in the cold, practice in the cold", "we don't make trades because we're not in the business of making other teams better"?

That pick has Mike Brown and his "Yes Man" Tobin written all over it.

Even if you think Taylor is/was a terrible hire, I just refuse to believe a guy with his background is clamoring for a blocking tight end in round 2.

Eh, I don’t know... Taylor seemed awfully excited about the Sample pick in the press conference. Maybe he’s a hell of an actor and he was actually pissed off. But I think Zac had at least some say in who they were drafting at that spot.

(01-23-2020, 12:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I constantly see people on here claiming Mike Brown is all about his “shiny new toys” and always wanting the “sexy” picks. So which is it?

I've seen a lot of people say Mike Brown loves QB's, which he does. There's countless quotes to support this. QB's have always been important. They also sell tickets. There is nothing modern about valuing the position.

As far as "shiny new toys" of course he does. We have value the draft above all else (free agency and trades). "Shiny new toys" are how he builds his team and are usually most of what can be used to sell the future.

I've never heard anyone say he favors "sexy picks" in my life. Not sure where you've heard that.

You can love QB's, and love your shiny new toys while still valuing old school philosophies. Drew Sample, as useless as he was, was still a shiny new toy.

I think Pratt showed plenty of improvement the more he played and the run defense improved as a whole with him in the middle calling out assignments, in place of Brown. If he would have just be inserted from day 1, we might have seen his full potential be the end of the season. Pretty excited to see how he performs next year as the installed established starting MLB.

(01-23-2020, 12:20 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Eh, I don’t know... Taylor seemed awfully excited about the Sample pick in the press conference. Maybe he’s a hell of an actor and he was actually pissed off. But I think Zac had at least some say in who they were drafting at that spot.

He was given complete and absolute control over picking his own staff, I would find it very hard to believe he wasn’t a major voice in deciding each one of those draft picks.

(01-23-2020, 12:23 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I've seen a lot of people say Mike Brown loves QB's, which he does. There's countless quotes to support this. QB's have always been important. They also sell tickets. There is nothing modern about valuing the position.

As far as "shiny new toys" of course he does. We have value the draft above all else (free agency and trades). "Shiny new toys" are how he builds his team and are usually most of what can be used to sell the future.

I've never heard anyone say he favors "sexy picks" in my life. Not sure where you've heard that.

You can love QB's, and love your shiny new toys while still valuing old school philosophies. Drew Sample, as useless as he was, was still a shiny new toy.

People were literally saying it over and over when we took Ross...