(01-21-2020, 11:24 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Tate vs Ross comparisons go off the rails when you prorate Ross's production in a similar fashion to Tate's.  Ross would have hypothetically had 1000+ yards and 6 TD's if he stayed healthy.  There's no legitimate case to make Tate #2 over Ross.

However, that also highlights their biggest similarity.  They are both injury prone.  

Regardless of which one fits anyone's particular tastes better, both Ross and Tate are unreliable due to their injury history.  Bringing back an injury prone AJ isn't the answer, either.  They need to double dip in a deep WR class.

Ross's unavailability is a bigger minus than you are accounting for. Ross has missed 50% of the games since he was drafted. Your #2 WR cannot miss half the games over 3 years. Hypothetical yards count for nothing. They are like those Taylor moral victories as the losses kept mounting. Ross hasn't even accumulated a 1000 yards over 3 seasons. Maybe someday he'll have a 1000 yard season, but meanwhile he's been an underperforming, overdrafted, oft-injured head case with hand deficiencies.

I'll take the WR with the better hands and higher availability every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

I remember when Marvin said the league better take notice of Auden Tate. Oh, how those were the days.

(01-23-2020, 01:46 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Ross's unavailability is a bigger minus than you are accounting for. Ross has missed 50% of the games since he was drafted. Your #2 WR cannot miss half the games over 3 years. Hypothetical yards count for nothing. They are like those Taylor moral victories as the losses kept mounting. Ross hasn't even accumulated a 1000 yards over 3 seasons. Maybe someday he'll have a 1000 yard season, but meanwhile he's been an underperforming, overdrafted, oft-injured head case with hand deficiencies.

I'll take the WR with the better hands and higher availability every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

So by that logic, if the Bengals reup AJ Tate should start over him because AJ has missed half the games over the last 3 seasons?

Since Tate entered the league, Ross has actually dressed for more games.  A lot of the games Tate did dress for, he only played a handful of.snaps.  Hard to get hurt standing on the sidelines.

You play the players that produce the most when they're healthy.  When both guys are healthy, Ross is more productive.  

That's also not even taking into account scheme.  Ross can effectively run a full route tree. As discussed earlier, Tate isn't fast enough to be effective deep and doesn't have the short area quickness to be effective on a lot of short routes, making him only really effective on intermediate stuff. You're limiting what you can do with your play calling by having him in the game.

Not only that,but you're presumably drafting Joe Burrow, statistically the best deep ball passer in college last year, and you're going to insert one of slowest WR's in the league over the fastest?

The reality is, both guys have injury issues and warts with their play on the field.  Hopefully, better talent comes in next year and pushes them down the depth chart.

(01-23-2020, 02:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: So by that logic, if the Bengals reup AJ Tate should start over him because AJ has missed half the games over the last 3 seasons?

Since Tate entered the league, Ross has actually dressed for more games.  A lot of the games Tate did dress for, he only played a handful of.snaps.  Hard to get hurt standing on the sidelines.

You play the players that produce the most when they're healthy.  When both guys are healthy, Ross is more productive.  

That's also not even taking into account scheme.  Ross can effectively run a full route tree. As discussed earlier, Tate isn't fast enough to be effective deep and doesn't have the short area quickness to be effective on a lot of short routes, making him only really effective on intermediate stuff. You're limiting what you can do with your play calling by having him in the game.

Not only that,but you're presumably drafting Joe Burrow, statistically the best deep ball passer in college last year, and you're going to insert one of slowest WR's in the league over the fastest?

The reality is, both guys have injury issues and warts with their play on the field.  Hopefully, better talent comes in next year and pushes them down the depth chart.

Yeah Tate really didn't contribute much on the field 
All he did was average 14.1 per catch and led the team in 1st down to catch ratio.
Like I said Tate is a red zone threat that had a coaching staff 
That poorly schemed up red zone packages last year 

(01-23-2020, 02:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: So by that logic, if the Bengals reup AJ Tate should start over him because AJ has missed half the games over the last 3 seasons?

Since Tate entered the league, Ross has actually dressed for more games.  A lot of the games Tate did dress for, he only played a handful of.snaps.  Hard to get hurt standing on the sidelines.

You play the players that produce the most when they're healthy.  When both guys are healthy, Ross is more productive.  

That's also not even taking into account scheme.  Ross can effectively run a full route tree. As discussed earlier, Tate isn't fast enough to be effective deep and doesn't have the short area quickness to be effective on a lot of short routes, making him only really effective on intermediate stuff. You're limiting what you can do with your play calling by having him in the game.

Not only that,but you're presumably drafting Joe Burrow, statistically the best deep ball passer in college last year, and you're going to insert one of slowest WR's in the league over the fastest?

The reality is, both guys have injury issues and warts with their play on the field.  Hopefully, better talent comes in next year and pushes them down the depth chart.

Great post, spot on, the sad part is someone even comparing the two though.

Makes me sad anyways as a fan of the Ross pick in the first place. He has severely disappointed me, but he is more productive
than Tate which isn't saying much as Ross is a #9 overall pick and Tate was a 7th rounder.

(01-23-2020, 03:34 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Yeah Tate really didn't contribute much on the field 
All he did was average 14.1 per catch and led the team in 1st down to catch ratio.
Like I said Tate is a red zone threat that had a coaching staff 
That poorly schemed up red zone packages last year 

Ross averaged more yards per catch and scored more TD's though.

Tate looks the part of a red zone threat and was in college but Ross has been the bigger red zone threat so far in the NFL.

(01-23-2020, 02:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: So by that logic, if the Bengals reup AJ Tate should start over him because AJ has missed half the games over the last 3 seasons?

Since Tate entered the league, Ross has actually dressed for more games.  A lot of the games Tate did dress for, he only played a handful of.snaps.  Hard to get hurt standing on the sidelines.

You play the players that produce the most when they're healthy.  When both guys are healthy, Ross is more productive.  

That's also not even taking into account scheme.  Ross can effectively run a full route tree. As discussed earlier, Tate isn't fast enough to be effective deep and doesn't have the short area quickness to be effective on a lot of short routes, making him only really effective on intermediate stuff. You're limiting what you can do with your play calling by having him in the game.

Not only that,but you're presumably drafting Joe Burrow, statistically the best deep ball passer in college last year, and you're going to insert one of slowest WR's in the league over the fastest?

The reality is, both guys have injury issues and warts with their play on the field.  Hopefully, better talent comes in next year and pushes them down the depth chart.

AH, NO! AJ is a proven guy who helps the team win when he's on the field. He's also had something like 7 1,000 yard seasons. Ross just ain't any of that. You should get the point by now.

 

(01-22-2020, 03:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think we'd see Whitworth back, but I never really gave it a thought of putting Whit back at the position in which he started...good idea.
That would free up a need and let Jordan, Price, and maybe a new draft pick groom for another year or start in place of Miller at RG.

Whit went to LSU...think he likes Burrow just a bit?  

And Whit, should he want to keep playing, could possibly play several more years at Guard.  And Joe Thuney is a RG that gave up one sack (on an immobile QB) and had 0 penalties in 1140 snaps this past season.  He is from Centerville.  I saw his folks at Kroger the other day and teased that I am working on the Bengals to sign him.  They said they would love that...and they weren't kidding.  I have known their family for decades.  Joseph was on my daughter's first (coed) soccer team.  At 6 years old...  .

The draft pick needed would be a mammoth RT (and there are a few in the draft) to push out Hart.  

(01-23-2020, 04:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Ross averaged more yards per catch and scored more TD's though.

Tate looks the part of a red zone threat and was in college but Ross has been the bigger red zone threat so far in the NFL.

When Ross does "well", the Bengals will do horrible, because Ross IS bad.

"40 times are over rated"

John Ross has left the chat.

So I guess this off-season is going to be dedicated to Joe Burrow threads and Auden Tate superhero hype.

Let's get weird.

(01-24-2020, 11:29 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: So I guess this off-season is going to be dedicated to Joe Burrow threads and Auden Tate superhero hype.

Let's get weird.

Look on the bright side the I told you so's will be flying around left and right for years to come.

(01-24-2020, 11:29 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: So I guess this off-season is going to be dedicated to Joe Burrow threads and Auden Tate superhero hype.

John Ross is thrilled to hear this.

Quote:Hard to get hurt standing on the sidelines

I'm Alex Redmond and I endorse this sentiment 100% ..

(01-24-2020, 11:29 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: So I guess this off-season is going to be dedicated to Joe Burrow threads and Auden Tate superhero hype.

Let's get weird.

You can always break up the monotony by using similar logic in other threads.

For example, in this thread we had the argument that 40 times are overrated because Jerry Rice ran a 4.71.  Find some D3 OT that weighs 270 and start pimping them in the draft forum.  When people tell you he's too small, respond with "Well, Anthony Munoz played at 278, so size is overrated for OL."

(01-24-2020, 12:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: John Ross is thrilled to hear this.

Nope. He just ruptured his eardrum.

(01-24-2020, 10:42 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: When Ross does "well", the Bengals will do horrible, because Ross IS bad.

Still better than Tate when he does well according to the numbers and I like Tate.

(01-24-2020, 02:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Still better than Tate when he does well according to the numbers and I like Tate.

Tate gets a pass since he only makes the following and has made more AJ-esque catches that are amazing and is very durable and on the field:
Auden Tate signed a 3 year, $1,710,000 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including an average annual salary of $570,000


Ross is less durable, hardly on the field and has more dropsies when it counts. Only edge over Tate is he is more elusive after the catch: John Ross signed a 4 year, $17,115,863 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $10,587,900 signing bonus, $17,115,863 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $4,278,966.

(01-25-2020, 02:20 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Tate gets a pass since he only makes the following and has made more AJ-esque catches that are amazing and is very durable and on the field:
Auden Tate signed a 3 year, $1,710,000 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including an average annual salary of $570,000


Ross is less durable, hardly on the field and has more dropsies when it counts. Only edge over Tate is he is more elusive after the catch: John Ross signed a 4 year, $17,115,863 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $10,587,900 signing bonus, $17,115,863 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $4,278,966.

Well that is all a given as Tate is a 7th rounder and Ross is a #9 overall pick as far as the money goes.

Tate missed a lot of games last year too man. How many TD's has Tate scored in NFL games? 1 Touchdown.

I love how Tate goes up for the ball and just snatches it out the air and hope to see him do this in the End Zone.

(01-25-2020, 02:20 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Tate gets a pass since he only makes the following and has made more AJ-esque catches that are amazing and is very durable and on the field:
Auden Tate signed a 3 year, $1,710,000 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including an average annual salary of $570,000


Ross is less durable, hardly on the field and has more dropsies when it counts. Only edge over Tate is he is more elusive after the catch: John Ross signed a 4 year, $17,115,863 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $10,587,900 signing bonus, $17,115,863 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $4,278,966.

In what reality is Ross's only advantage over Tate that he is more elusive after the catch?

Ross can stretch a defense.  Tate can't.  Ross can run a full route tree.  Tate can't.  Ross can actually score TD's.  Tate can't.  Ross creates more separation.  Despite the drops, Ross caught a higher percentage of his targets this year.  Ross is hardly on the field, but played nearly 300 more snaps on offense over the last two years.

Sure, Tate makes more spectacular catches, but I'd rather have TD's than highlight reel clips.  

Both have strengths and both have serious shortcomings in their games, but Ross is the better WR right now.  It's not really that close, either.