(01-24-2020, 10:23 AM)Synric Wrote: I think his best fit is with Arians in Tampa Bay but yea he needs to sit and like you said even then might not ever breakout.

Problem is I don't think Arians is staying around long term (Health issues had him rumored leaving this year potentially) so he will want to win now. To me Herbert and Arians make sense, but would probably require a trade up. One thing to remember is that there has been movement in the top 10 in 9 of the last 10 drafts, odds are someone is going to make a move up.

From WF again:

Quote:In the team scrimmage of the two-minute drill, Love made an awful pass for an interception. Ohio State linebacker Malik Harrison backpedaled down the middle seam, and Love threw the pass right to him. Harrison tipped the ball to himself before controlling it for an interception. Perhaps a receiver ran the wrong route, but it was a terrible throw otherwise, as there wasn't a wide out within 10 yards of Harrison. Regardless of the route, that play further enforced the field vision problems that Love has.

Love came back to make some nice plays in the red zone scrimmage, lofting a touchdown pass in the corner of the end zone to a tight en with a perfectly placed pass that dropped right into the hands of his receiver. Shortly later, Love showed his feet and athleticism on a zone read run, darting into the end zone. Love had some other good passes in the seven-on-seven scrimmage, showing the arm and accuracy to beat coverage.

There is no doubt that Love has a very good skill set with special arm talent, but his field vision is a serious weakness at this time. He is going to need developmental time in the NFL and should not be forced into the starting lineup immediately. Team sources were saying that Love is not ready to start, and his career would be better off if he started out as a backup.

If these words ring true, he will NEVER be a starter in this league; teams want ready QBs, not developmental guys (unless it's a Rodgers/Favre or Garropollo/Brady sitch).

(01-24-2020, 01:39 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Apparently u guys aren’t watching the senior bowl.... he was the highest rated player on day 2 and 3 by a wide margin, he’s been getting praise out the wazoo for it, and also was noted he’s been the only qb throwing it deep. All the other qbs are playing it safe with horizontal passes. He’s been going deep. First quotes then video

Nope. Work and lack of interest to try to watch practices. I find it more efficient to compare notes from various sources. And from all sources I've read, Love has been great in some aspects and bad in some others. When you compare that to his college tape and scouting reports already written about him, it's all consistent.

Dude is a project with great tools.

That's what I hate the most about the senior bowl when it comes to QBs. It's all practice. All these guys look great in practice. Then they play in a game where theres no real defensive game planning. And guess what? Almost all of these guys look great.

That being said, you have to go back and watch the college games. There's a reason why Burrow looked as good as he did - his mental game. there's a reason why Herbert constantly came up small in big games and why Love looked like crap this year.\

I really hate to say this, but if the Bengals passed on Burrow, I don't think I'd really be that interested in watching games this year. It will take me a long time to get over it.

(01-24-2020, 10:17 AM)Au165 Wrote: His deep ball accuracy is inconsistent.

Love can’t connect with Davis pic.twitter.com/iAB7KpenZv

— Jon Ledyard (@LedyardNFLDraft) January 23, 2020

His ability to actually read defenses is the biggest question, and he wouldn't be the first QB to fail because he couldn't.

Jordan Love picked off by Malik Harrison. pic.twitter.com/y4lwqtVkoy

— Jon Ledyard (@LedyardNFLDraft) January 23, 2020

I just don't see it, not now and not in his tape, but if you want to tell me he sits for a year or two in New Orleans maybe I could buy it. The issue is everyone points to Mahomes but fails to acknowledge he got to sit a year with one of the best QB friendly coaches in the league. If Love goes to just some team he won't be heard from again and that is not a top 15 pick in the draft type of player as people are pushing him as. 

I’m not touting him in the top 15. I’m saying if we didn’t go qb at 1, and he’s there at 33, u play dalton for 2020 then move on to love(ala mahomes Smith)

(01-24-2020, 11:15 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Nope. Work and lack of interest to try to watch practices. I find it more efficient to compare notes from various sources. And from all sources I've read, Love has been great in some aspects and bad in some others. When you compare that to his college tape and scouting reports already written about him, it's all consistent.

Dude is a project with great tools.

I mean he did just win best qb award voted on by the position group he went against.

(01-24-2020, 05:40 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: That's what I hate the most about the senior bowl when it comes to QBs. It's all practice. All these guys look great in practice. Then they play in a game where theres no real defensive game planning. And guess what? Almost all of these guys look great.

That being said, you have to go back and watch the college games. There's a reason why Burrow looked as good as he did - his mental game. there's a reason why Herbert constantly came up small in big games and why Love looked like crap this year.\

I really hate to say this, but if the Bengals passed on Burrow, I don't think I'd really be that interested in watching games this year. It will take me a long time to get over it.

But see that’s the point. Most believe that loves issues in 19 were due to coaching. That’s why today’s game is so important. It’ll either prove them wrong or right. But u get to see him coached by a Actual coaching staff and Reports are mainly good.

(01-25-2020, 04:48 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I’m not touting him in the top 15. I’m saying if we didn’t go qb at 1, and he’s there at 33, u play dalton for 2020 then move on to love(ala mahomes Smith)
I mean he did just win best qb award voted on by the position group he went against.

But see that’s the point. Most believe that loves issues in 19 were due to coaching. That’s why today’s game is so important. It’ll either prove them wrong or right. But u get to see him coached by a Actual coaching staff and Reports are mainly good.

Today’s game is not that important.

No blitzes. No pass rush games. No more than 4 pass rushers allowed. No intentional grounding. No dime packages. Nickel is only allowed when there are 3 WRs. Pass coverage is limited to certain looks.

Love’s ability to read the defense, a weakness of his, is not going to be tested as much as it would be during a regular season game.

But, if you’re going to crown him, crown him. But, he is he we thought he was.

He still looked incredibly middling.

Well, this de-escalated quickly.

threads like this make me sick. We have a shot at 3 incredibly talented qb's even if we do trade and you end up talking about this scrub. SHAME

(01-25-2020, 04:48 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I’m not touting him in the top 15. I’m saying if we didn’t go qb at 1, and he’s there at 33, u play dalton for 2020 then move on to love(ala mahomes Smith)
I mean he did just win best qb award voted on by the position group he went against.

But see that’s the point. Most believe that loves issues in 19 were due to coaching. That’s why today’s game is so important. It’ll either prove them wrong or right. But u get to see him coached by a Actual coaching staff and Reports are mainly good.

The game proves nothing.  You can't get fooled by these practices and workouts.  The only thing that is tried and true is the game performance.  I've seen enough of Herbert to know that he is a large step below Burrow and Tua.  If you want to put Herbert and Love in the same category, that only tells me that Herbert should be a mid first rounder.

You can't fix what's between the ears.  I've yet to see a QB come into the league and have coaches say "he's great physically, but he just doesn't get it mentally" and have a successful career.

(01-26-2020, 01:10 PM)Okeana Wrote: threads like this make me sick. We have a shot at 3 incredibly talented qb's even if we do trade and you end up talking about this scrub. SHAME

Scrub? Again he would go top 5 had he gone back to school and transferred... if he had been eligible last year and came out u would be talking much differently.

(01-28-2020, 05:07 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The game proves nothing.  You can't get fooled by these practices and workouts.  The only thing that is tried and true is the game performance.  I've seen enough of Herbert to know that he is a large step below Burrow and Tua.  If you want to put Herbert and Love in the same category, that only tells me that Herbert should be a mid first rounder.

You can't fix what's between the ears.  I've yet to see a QB come into the league and have coaches say "he's great physically, but he just doesn't get it mentally" and have a successful career.

That’s literally what they said about Patrick mahomes coming out.... can’t read defenses. Can’t anticipate, etc etc.

(01-31-2020, 03:59 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Scrub? Again he would go top 5 had he gone back to school and transferred... if he had been eligible last year and came out u would be talking much differently.

That’s literally what they said about Patrick mahomes coming out.... can’t read defenses. Can’t anticipate, etc etc.

Day 2 and 3 are usually littered with guys that thought they would be Top 10 picks if they stayed in school another year.  

Seriously, all the Top 5 pick statement really means is those guys would put him in their preseason Top 5, which amounts to nothing.  Plus nobody is putting him ahead of Lawrence and Fields.

(01-31-2020, 03:59 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Scrub? Again he would go top 5 had he gone back to school and transferred... if he had been eligible last year and came out u would be talking much differently.

That’s literally what they said about Patrick mahomes coming out.... can’t read defenses. Can’t anticipate, etc etc.

But he didn't.  And that's the problem.  Are you really going to take a risk on a guy like that?  I wouldn't in a million years, especially when he wasn't that good this year.

He should have stayed in school one more year and transferred somewhere, but he didn't.  And to me, that's a major red flag.  He's had 2 average years and one great year.  That's not exactly a good track record.

(01-31-2020, 03:59 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Scrub? Again he would go top 5 had he gone back to school and transferred... if he had been eligible last year and came out u would be talking much differently.

That’s literally what they said about Patrick mahomes coming out.... can’t read defenses. Can’t anticipate, etc etc.

Mahomes and Love are not on the same level coming out of college.
Mahomes had 11250 yards and 93 TDs in 32 games.
Love had only 8600 yards and 60 TDs in 38 games...in a non-Power 5 conference.

Love is more of a project and risk than Mahomes was.

And the whole point of "he would go Top 5" assumes that a player actually takes the next step. 
Love actually regressed in 2019 and wouldn't have gone ahead of Murray, Haskins, or Jones anyway if he could have gone in the 2019 draft.
Love is more akin to Josh Allen, as he's huge potential but not a refined product. While Allen has taken his team to the playoffs this year, he's still not a good passer.

(01-31-2020, 05:38 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: But he didn't.  And that's the problem.  Are you really going to take a risk on a guy like that?  I wouldn't in a million years, especially when he wasn't that good this year.

He should have stayed in school one more year and transferred somewhere, but he didn't.  And to me, that's a major red flag.  He's had 2 average years and one great year.  That's not exactly a good track record.

But yet u want burrow whose had 1 great year and 1 bad year? Seems hypocritical no?

(01-31-2020, 05:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Mahomes and Love are not on the same level coming out of college.
Mahomes had 11250 yards and 93 TDs in 32 games.
Love had only 8600 yards and 60 TDs in 38 games...in a non-Power 5 conference.

Love is more of a project and risk than Mahomes was.

And the whole point of "he would go Top 5" assumes that a player actually takes the next step. 
Love actually regressed in 2019 and wouldn't have gone ahead of Murray, Haskins, or Jones anyway if he could have gone in the 2019 draft.
Love is more akin to Josh Allen, as he's huge potential but not a refined product. While Allen has taken his team to the playoffs this year, he's still not a good passer.

Love regressed bc his receivers couldn’t get open and had no offensive game plan to work with which has been well documented,,,, as far as the mahomes thing. Tell me which team had more talent? Which team had better coaching?

(02-01-2020, 03:47 AM)Jpoore Wrote: But yet u want burrow whose had 1 great year and 1 bad year? Seems hypocritical no?

Love regressed bc his receivers couldn’t get open and had no offensive game plan to work with which has been well documented,,,, as far as the mahomes thing. Tell me which team had more talent? Which team had better coaching?

I'm sure Mahomes had better coaching than Love. Barring rare circumstances, a Power 5 conference team will have a better coaching staff than a non-Power 5 team. And Mahomes has had great coaching in the NFL too.

He won't get that in Cincinnati.

As for Burrow, he had one not good year and finished with arguably the best year anyone has ever had in college football. If it had been reversed, people wouldn't be talking about him as the #1 overall pick.
Love had a better year two years ago but declined last year regardless of why. You have to continue to show progression, not regression. If he had taken a step forward rather than a step back, he may have been in the conversation of 1st round.

(02-01-2020, 03:47 AM)Jpoore Wrote: But yet u want burrow whose had 1 great year and 1 bad year? Seems hypocritical no?

Love regressed bc his receivers couldn’t get open and had no offensive game plan to work with which has been well documented,,,, as far as the mahomes thing. Tell me which team had more talent? Which team had better coaching?

Mike Sanford was just hired to be OC by Minnesota in the Big 10 which is arguably the second best conference in college football. So don't give me that bad coaching crap.

Sanford stated publicly they were going to keep the same scheme in place from Love's sophomore year but allow Love more control over it at the line. Love regressed because he was asked to read defenses, make checks, and go through his progressions. He struggled in those areas and also had issues with horizontal breaking routes.

(02-01-2020, 01:58 PM)Synric Wrote: Mike Sanford was just hired to be OC by Minnesota in the Big 10 which is arguably the second best conference in college football. So don't give me that bad coaching crap.

Sanford stated publicly they were going to keep the same scheme in place from Love's sophomore year but allow Love more control over it at the line. Love regressed because he was asked to read defenses, make checks, and go through his progressions. He struggled in those areas and also had issues with horizontal breaking routes.

Yeah and losing the 9 offensive starters had nothing to do with it right?

(02-01-2020, 08:43 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Yeah and losing the 9 offensive starters had nothing to do with it right?

Hey, if the QB is going to be a star in the NFL, he should have been able to build some chemistry with those guys coming up the year before they became starters.  It's not like they were all complete strangers, that met at kickoff of the first game of the season..

(02-01-2020, 08:43 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Yeah and losing the 9 offensive starters had nothing to do with it right?

Jordan Love struggled reading defenses, going through his progressions, and throwing horizontal routes. None of that had anything to do with anybody but Jordan Love. Potential is why he is rated so high but like any player with a "potential" tag they are a high risk pick.