(02-05-2020, 04:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I want others to watch Joe Burrow throw on the run outside of the pocket and tell me what you think of his arm strength.  Because I don't see questionable arm strength as others have suggested.

It’s not really a arm strength issue, more a velocity issue.

(02-05-2020, 05:05 PM)Whatever Wrote: Most QB's on NFL practice squads could beat Kent State in the biggest game of their college careers.  Just saying..

Yeah bc it was his fault they lost.....

(02-05-2020, 08:27 PM)Jpoore Wrote: It’s not really a arm strength issue, more a velocity issue.

I don’t claim to be a scout, coach, or QB guru. But, ball velocity is a function of arm strength and proper throwing mechanics. The mechanics involve proper footwork combined with shoulder and hip rotation to generate power to the arm combined with the actual throwing motion.

Stand with your back flat against a wall and throw a baseball as hard as you can. That’s all arm strength. That doesn’t generate a whole lot of velocity.

Now step away from the wall and throw the baseball like a normal human with your feet approximately shoulder width apart, one foot slightly in front of the other, and rotate you hips and shoulders with your arm acting like a whip at the end of all that motion. That generates more velocity.

The Draft Network’s critique claims Burrow has plenty of velocity when he is in the pocket because of his base and his mechanics. But, when he is on the move he doesn’t have his base or mechanics to generate the torque from his legs and torso, thus his lack of velocity is due to lack of arm strength.

But, now you’re trying to back track and claim it isn’t a lack of arm strength, but a lack of velocity. Well, if the lack of velocity isn’t from a lack of arm strength (as you just claimed) then it is from poor mechanics. I have yet to see anyone claim Burrow has poor mechanics. It’s possible some have and I haven’t seen it.

But, your seeming contradictions would indicate you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about and just parroting other’s criticism that agree with your preconceived notions.

But, since you’re the self proclaimed scout and I’m just a casual fan, I invite you to correct my misinformation.

(02-05-2020, 08:27 PM)Jpoore Wrote: It’s not really a arm strength issue, more a velocity issue.
Yeah bc it was his fault they lost.....

He was the second best QB on the field in his bowl game.  Crum outplayed him by a wide margin.  

Furthermore, people are trying to pimp him as a dual threat but he has more multi interception games than 30+ rushing yard games over the last two years.  He had 4 30 yard rushing games this year playing in the Mountain West conference.  The guy you keep comparing him to, Patrick Mahomes, had 6 his final year in college in the Big 12.  The guy you're dogging, Joe Burrow, had 7 this year in the SEC.  Love is the worst runner of the three and played against far inferior talent.  What's he going to do against an NFL defense?

(02-05-2020, 11:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: He was the second best QB on the field in his bowl game.  Crum outplayed him by a wide margin.  

Furthermore, people are trying to pimp him as a dual threat but he has more multi interception games than 30+ rushing yard games over the last two years.  He had 4 30 yard rushing games this year playing in the Mountain West conference.  The guy you keep comparing him to, Patrick Mahomes, had 6 his final year in college in the Big 12.  The guy you're dogging, Joe Burrow, had 7 this year in the SEC.  Love is the worst runner of the three and played against far inferior talent.  What's he going to do against an NFL defense?

He only runs when he needs to. Again it’s Utah state. The talent he has is nothing. And then to go and lose every single offensive starter besides one? There’s a reason he balled out during senior bowl week. Y’all bout to let him go to the colts and be their 3rd straight hall of fame qb.

(02-05-2020, 10:05 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I don’t claim to be a scout, coach, or QB guru. But, ball velocity is a function of arm strength and proper throwing mechanics. The mechanics involve proper footwork combined with shoulder and hip rotation to generate power to the arm combined with the actual throwing motion.

Stand with your back flat against a wall and throw a baseball as hard as you can. That’s all arm strength. That doesn’t generate a whole lot of velocity.

Now step away from the wall and throw the baseball like a normal human with your feet approximately shoulder width apart, one foot slightly in front of the other, and rotate you hips and shoulders with your arm acting like a whip at the end of all that motion. That generates more velocity.

The Draft Network’s critique claims Burrow has plenty of velocity when he is in the pocket because of his base and his mechanics. But, when he is on the move he doesn’t have his base or mechanics to generate the torque from his legs and torso, thus his lack of velocity is due to lack of arm strength.

But, now you’re trying to back track and claim it isn’t a lack of arm strength, but a lack of velocity. Well, if the lack of velocity isn’t from a lack of arm strength (as you just claimed) then it is from poor mechanics. I have yet to see anyone claim Burrow has poor mechanics. It’s possible some have and I haven’t seen it.

But, your seeming contradictions would indicate you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about and just parroting other’s criticism that agree with your preconceived notions.

But, since you’re the self proclaimed scout and I’m just a casual fan, I invite you to correct my misinformation.

I talked about this same thing in either this thread or another one, you are correct. The place arm strength shows up is when a player can't use his lower body. Burrow some time has to "arm it" down field when he is throwing off platform, but when he can get through his drop and drive phase he has more than enough arm to get it down field. The thing was Burrow was under siege A LOT this year so he was off platform more than most which kind of helped facilitate the arm strength narrative.

(02-05-2020, 11:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: He was the second best QB on the field in his bowl game.  Crum outplayed him by a wide margin.  

Furthermore, people are trying to pimp him as a dual threat but he has more multi interception games than 30+ rushing yard games over the last two years.  He had 4 30 yard rushing games this year playing in the Mountain West conference.  The guy you keep comparing him to, Patrick Mahomes, had 6 his final year in college in the Big 12.  The guy you're dogging, Joe Burrow, had 7 this year in the SEC.  Love is the worst runner of the three and played against far inferior talent.  What's he going to do against an NFL defense?

Nothing. He's a project pick and could be a good one on the right team but the dude isnt near NFL ready. I wouldnt be suprised if he ends up in the XFL. He threw a ton of INTs and struggles in the mental part of the game. What he has going for him is his physical stature and a strong arm. QBs like that come and go all the time in the NFL without ever seeing the field in a real game. If he threw that many INTs in such a weak conference, imagine him playing the Steelers and Ravens twice a year. The Bengals are not the right team for a high risk high reward type of QB at the moment. A team who can groom him and coach him up may find a gem at some point, but I even doubt that. He's a bust in my eyes. XFL all day.

(02-05-2020, 11:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: He was the second best QB on the field in his bowl game.  Crum outplayed him by a wide margin.  

Furthermore, people are trying to pimp him as a dual threat but he has more multi interception games than 30+ rushing yard games over the last two years.  He had 4 30 yard rushing games this year playing in the Mountain West conference.  The guy you keep comparing him to, Patrick Mahomes, had 6 his final year in college in the Big 12.  The guy you're dogging, Joe Burrow, had 7 this year in the SEC.  Love is the worst runner of the three and played against far inferior talent.  What's he going to do against an NFL defense?

(02-07-2020, 02:12 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Nothing. He's a project pick and could be a good one on the right team but the dude isnt near NFL ready. I wouldnt be suprised if he ends up in the XFL. He threw a ton of INTs and struggles in the mental part of the game. What he has going for him is his physical stature and a strong arm. QBs like that come and go all the time in the NFL without ever seeing the field in a real game. If he threw that many INTs in such a weak conference, imagine him playing the Steelers and Ravens twice a year. The Bengals are not the right team for a high risk high reward type of QB at the moment. A team who can groom him and coach him up may find a gem at some point, but I even doubt that. He's a bust in my eyes. XFL all day.

Agree about Love, not even close to what we need here. We need a QB that has great pocket awareness, accuracy, smarts,
leadership, the drive to be the best and most of all a QB that plays great against top Defenses. No question who that guy is
and his name isn't Jordan Love.

(02-07-2020, 06:44 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Y’all bout to let him go to the colts and be their 3rd straight hall of fame qb.

Luck, Brissett and Curtis Painter are all going to the HOF?

Lance Zerlin has done his prospect grades for NFL.com.

Burrow comes in at a 7.1 (pro bowl level player)

Jordan Love 6.3 (starter within a couple year)

Funny enough, Zerlin comped him to Blake Bortles and I can totally see it.

(02-07-2020, 04:18 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Luck, Brissett and Curtis Painter are all going to the HOF?

Luck is, Manning is,

(02-07-2020, 02:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agree about Love, not even close to what we need here. We need a QB that has great pocket awareness, accuracy, smarts,
leadership, the drive to be the best and most of all a QB that plays great against top Defenses. No question who that guy is
and his name isn't Jordan Love.

Again watch the 2018 tape. He does show exactly all of that.

(02-08-2020, 04:31 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Again watch the 2018 tape. He does show exactly all of that.

It is literally impossible for Jordan Love to have competed against and beaten any "top defenses".  Utah St. is in the Mountain West Conference, and the last time I checked, the MWC is not famous for defense..

(02-08-2020, 04:31 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Luck is, Manning is,

Luck is not going into the HoF.

(02-08-2020, 04:31 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Again watch the 2018 tape. He does show exactly all of that.

The one thing that jumps out to me is that he's going to need time to develop in the NFL - at least a year, maybe 2. He throws into a lot of double and even triple coverage. He won't get away with that in the NFL. He will also need to work very hard on things like pre-snap reads and managing progressions at the next level. The guy definitely has arm talent and potential, and would be a good investment for a team that doesn't need a starter right away...but the team that takes him will have to be very patient, at least IMO.

(02-08-2020, 04:31 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Luck is, Manning is,

You're out of your mind if you think Luck is going to the Hall.

Luck has exactly 0 shot at the HoF. No SB appearance, no MVP’s, too short a career.

These kind of statements are why no one can take Jpoore seriously, that and everyone still waiting on those draft breakdowns.

(02-08-2020, 04:31 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Luck is, Manning is,

lol you said the last 3, that would be Brissett (nope), Luck (best of the three, but nope) and Painter (HELL no).

(02-08-2020, 09:49 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: lol you said the last 3, that would be Brissett (nope), Luck (best of the three, but nope) and Painter (HELL no).

Technically, he said Love would be the third straight. So, just Luck and Brissett then. I know he meant Luck and Manning, but he's out of his mind if he thinks Luck is a Hall of Famer

(02-08-2020, 11:56 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It is literally impossible for Jordan Love to have competed against and beaten any "top defenses".  Utah St. is in the Mountain West Conference, and the last time I checked, the MWC is not famous for defense..

Jordan love played the 9th ranked defense in Michigan state and went 29-44 for 320 yards in a 38-31 loss.

(02-08-2020, 05:34 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The one thing that jumps out to me is that he's going to need time to develop in the NFL - at least a year, maybe 2. He throws into a lot of double and even triple coverage. He won't get away with that in the NFL. He will also need to work very hard on things like pre-snap reads and managing progressions at the next level. The guy definitely has arm talent and potential, and would be a good investment for a team that doesn't need a starter right away...but the team that takes him will have to be very patient, at least IMO.

I would expect him to sit 2020 and start 2021

(02-08-2020, 06:59 PM)Big Boss Wrote: You're out of your mind if you think Luck is going to the Hall.

Is megatron?

(02-08-2020, 09:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: Luck has exactly 0 shot at the HoF. No SB appearance, no MVP’s, too short a career.
Megatron will get in luck deserves consideration.
These kind of statements are why no one can take Jpoore seriously, that and everyone still waiting on those draft breakdowns.

(02-10-2020, 02:57 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Is megatron?

Nope, but he has a much better shot than Luck. Calvin Johnson started 135 games while Luck only started 86. Luck's career was simply too short without any real distinguishable statistics or achievements other than the title of "Best prospect since John Elway". Calvin Johnson was a 3 time first team all pro, Luck was never a first team all-pro. Career receiving yards Calvin Johnson is 31st, Andrew Luck is 85th in career passing yards. Calvin Johnson is 22nd in career receiving touchdowns, luck is 68th in career passing touchdowns.

Absolutely zero chance Andrew Luck makes it into the Hall of Fame.