One needs to look no further than the 2015 draft and Duke Tobins ineptitude in recent drafts, how does one miss a whole freaking draft!

Duke has done nothing in recent years, please let this guy go and bring in someone who can evaluate talent

2015 WASTED DRAFT
Round 1, pick No. 21: Cedric Ogbuehi, OL, Texas A&M
Round 2, pick No. 53: Jake Fisher, OL, Oregon
Round 3, pick No. 85: Tyler Kroft, TE, Rutgers
Round 3, pick No. 99: Paul Dawson, LB, TCU
Round 4, pick No. 120: Josh Shaw, DB, USC
Round 4, pick No. 135: Marcus Hardison, DL, Arizona State
Round 5, pick No. 157, C.J. Uzomah, TE, Auburn
Round 6, pick No. 197, Derron Smith, DB, Fresno State
Round 7, pick No. 238, Mario Alford, WR, West Virginia

(02-08-2020, 02:34 PM)corpjet Wrote: One needs to look no further than the 2015 draft and Duke Tobins ineptitude in recent drafts, how does one miss a whole freaking draft!

Duke has done nothing in recent years, please let this guy go and bring in someone who can evaluate talent

2015 WASTED DRAFT
Round 1, pick No. 21: Cedric Ogbuehi, OL, Texas A&M
Round 2, pick No. 53: Jake Fisher, OL, Oregon
Round 3, pick No. 85: Tyler Kroft, TE, Rutgers
Round 3, pick No. 99: Paul Dawson, LB, TCU
Round 4, pick No. 120: Josh Shaw, DB, USC
Round 4, pick No. 135: Marcus Hardison, DL, Arizona State
Round 5, pick No. 157, C.J. Uzomah, TE, Auburn
Round 6, pick No. 197, Derron Smith, DB, Fresno State
Round 7, pick No. 238, Mario Alford, WR, West Virginia

2015 was a terrible draft, and I think only three of those guys are still in the league, only one playing for the Bengals. A significant upgrade to the front office’s scouting and player development division is badly needed. An organization that relies almost solely on the draft needs to have the organizational structure that maximizes its chances of hitting on draft picks and developing them. For the price of 1-2 of the team’s famous D-list free agent signings another 8-12 scouts and personnel could be hired. The main obstacle, similar to all other main obstacles to team success, is Mike Brown. He’s pathetically cheap, famously stubborn, and does not have winning at the top of his priority list. We can blame Duke but it all starts at the top.

And get rid of Mikey's favorite toy?  NO WAY !!!!!!

Duke Tobin is just following orders from the front office. Ownership's philosophy has been build through the draft and add lower to mid tier free agents to build the team. It's a feast or famine way of running the franchise, if you can string together 2 or 3 good drafts in a row you have a better chance of success and if not you get the current situation.

(02-08-2020, 04:45 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: Duke Tobin is just following orders from the front office. Ownership's philosophy has been build through the draft and add lower to mid tier free agents to build the team. It's a feast or famine way of running the franchise, if you can string together 2 or 3 good drafts in a row you have a better chance of success and if not you get the current situation.

So much, this^

Duke can only do as instructed by the ownership, act out the script that he's been handed, and work within the confines of budget they allot to him.  I guess my question would be;  If they ran Duke off, who would we be looking at in a similar capacity?  I mean if Mike were to announce his retirement, and Katie and Troy announced that they were going to take a different approach to managing the team, I could see the chances of an actual GM being hired.

(02-08-2020, 02:34 PM)corpjet Wrote: One needs to look no further than the 2015 draft and Duke Tobins ineptitude in recent drafts, how does one miss a whole freaking draft!

Duke has done nothing in recent years, please let this guy go and bring in someone who can evaluate talent

2015 WASTED DRAFT
Round 1, pick No. 21: Cedric Ogbuehi, OL, Texas A&M
Round 2, pick No. 53: Jake Fisher, OL, Oregon
Round 3, pick No. 85: Tyler Kroft, TE, Rutgers
Round 3, pick No. 99: Paul Dawson, LB, TCU
Round 4, pick No. 120: Josh Shaw, DB, USC
Round 4, pick No. 135: Marcus Hardison, DL, Arizona State
Round 5, pick No. 157, C.J. Uzomah, TE, Auburn
Round 6, pick No. 197, Derron Smith, DB, Fresno State
Round 7, pick No. 238, Mario Alford, WR, West Virginia

Oh man... I remember a lot of excitement about Mario Alford and Dawson. What a shit draft... I did sorta like Josh Shaw though. He was sorta versatile, and made a coupla plays while he was here.

Shaw was the only pick I liked in that whole draft. But it's not all Tobin . It takes a village to be this bad.

2015 was absolutely a disastrous draft for us but to be fair it was overall a weak draft for every team that year. A lot of missed picks and busts in that 1st round.

2015 was the perfect year to go all-in during FA. Needed a C and LB that could've made that team even stronger. Instead, we had to hope Paul Dawson was the 2nd coming of Burfict and the Bengals were praised to being ahead of the curve by drafting 2 future tackles instead of players that could've helped immediately like Bud Dupree or Erik Kendricks.

2019 draft may not be much better. Yikes.

I do like C.J. though. He has stepped up when we needed him.

They need to take advantage of the PFF people right down the street. In all seriousness, Tobin has been pretty bad as of late. Not sure what to make of him since the early part of the decade he was the best in the business.

(02-08-2020, 11:01 PM)jmccracky Wrote: I do like C.J. though. He has stepped up when we needed him.

Yes and not bad for a mid-lower 5th round pick.

I do see the overall point of the OP though.  Just another bad draft.

(02-08-2020, 02:34 PM)corpjet Wrote: One needs to look no further than the 2015 draft and Duke Tobins ineptitude in recent drafts, how does one miss a whole freaking draft!

Duke has done nothing in recent years, please let this guy go and bring in someone who can evaluate talent

2015 WASTED DRAFT
Round 1, pick No. 21: Cedric Ogbuehi, OL, Texas A&M
Round 2, pick No. 53: Jake Fisher, OL, Oregon
Round 3, pick No. 85: Tyler Kroft, TE, Rutgers
Round 3, pick No. 99: Paul Dawson, LB, TCU
Round 4, pick No. 120: Josh Shaw, DB, USC
Round 4, pick No. 135: Marcus Hardison, DL, Arizona State
Round 5, pick No. 157, C.J. Uzomah, TE, Auburn
Round 6, pick No. 197, Derron Smith, DB, Fresno State
Round 7, pick No. 238, Mario Alford, WR, West Virginia

Who'd have thought the two TE's would be the most productive and one of them isn't on the team anymore?

(02-08-2020, 11:18 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: They need to take advantage of the PFF people right down the street.  In all seriousness, Tobin has been pretty bad as of late. Not sure what to make of him since the early part of the decade he was the best in the business.

I've wondered if that has been due to the coordinator changes.

When he was hitting it out of the park, we had Jay G and Zim running their systems.  Duke was well versed in what was needed to fill the roles we needed.  When those guys moved on, the replacements kept the same systems in place.  The players still fit the mold.  THEN, the systems changed.  And it seemed that the coordinators (or Marvin) would say one thing publicly about what they wanted to do, but would do something completely different on the field.  With that, there might be a little chicken or egg thing happening.  Either they said that they were going to do A but instead did B; OR they had to do B because the personnel did not fit A.  In my mind it was the coordinator doing different than what they said they were going to do.  So if Duke is asked to draft guys who can fit a system that the coordinator in fact does not follow, he cannot be successful.

That was the draft that stuck the dagger in the OL for sure. Mike Brown needs to be out of anything except signing checks, but not only that he needs to up the scouting budget and let the coaches have more resources whether its scouts or better tech.

Sure the scouting department has missed on picks but they have hit on them also like...WJ3 Bates Lawson Billings Boyd Hubbard etc...I can look at any team and pick a draft they failed.

Making our incredibly small FO even smaller sounds like a bad idea to me.

(02-08-2020, 11:35 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Who'd have thought the two TE's would be the most productive and one of them isn't on the team anymore?

Yep... 9 picks, and 5 years later all we have to show for that draft is a completely average and replaceable TE.

Tobin is as close to a real GM as we have, but with the restrictions and limitations placed on him, it's hard to place all the blame on him. We have the smallest scouting department in the league, and we rely 100% on the draft to fix the roster. It makes no sense, and it puts all the pressure on Tobin to have perfect drafts while handicapped with less personnel at his disposal.

That said, as with most things Mike Brown Bengals, a change is probably well overdue. Tobin has been around since 1999. 21 years. Any other team would've been through 2-3 GM's in that time frame, and sometimes a fresh perspective is key to success. Of course, this all traces back to our real "GM", who loathes change in any capacity and won't put his lifers in the best position to be successful.

Ugh.

(02-09-2020, 12:26 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: I've wondered if that has been due to the coordinator changes.

When he was hitting it out of the park, we had Jay G and Zim running their systems.  Duke was well versed in what was needed to fill the roles we needed.  When those guys moved on, the replacements kept the same systems in place.  The players still fit the mold.  THEN, the systems changed.  And it seemed that the coordinators (or Marvin) would say one thing publicly about what they wanted to do, but would do something completely different on the field.  With that, there might be a little chicken or egg thing happening.  Either they said that they were going to do A but instead did B; OR they had to do B because the personnel did not fit A.  In my mind it was the coordinator doing different than what they said they were going to do.  So if Duke is asked to draft guys who can fit a system that the coordinator in fact does not follow, he cannot be successful.

Good point. 

Also, the coaches have input on who they want. Could be worse coordinators means inferior players because of the feedback they give Tobin and the draft team.