Some pretty interesting stuff. I did not realize our guards were so bad. What do you think of their recommended cuts and additions?

CINCINNATI BENGALS

Projected cap space: $44.7 million

Players to target: CB Byron Jones, G Joe Thuney, TE Hunter Henry

Soon-to-be unrestricted free agents: WR A.J. Green, DI Andrew Billings, CB Darqueze Dennard, TE Tyler Eifert, S Clayton Fejedelem, T John Jerry, LB Nick Vigil

Potential cuts: T Cordy Glenn (saves $9.5 million in 2020), CB Dre Kirkpatrick (saves $8.4 million in 2020), QB Andy Dalton (saves $17.7 million in 2020)

Since Cincinnati didn’t trade wide receiver A.J. Green at the in-season deadline, it’d be hard to imagine them letting him walk in free agency. A long-term deal or the franchise tag is destined to happen. He hasn’t stepped on the field since Week 13 of 2018, but we have to recognize how great of a player Green is when healthy. Even with not playing the past year and a half, Green still ranks fourth in deep receiving yards (20-plus yard targets) and is tied for first in deep touchdowns since coming into the league in 2011. He’s exactly who Joe Burrow needs, and he should be a priority for Cincinnati this offseason. Cordy Glenn and Dre Kirkpatrick both had limited time on the field in their 2019 seasons due to injury, and if Cincinnati is serious about winning immediately, they would cut both to bring in an extra $18 million to make some plays. In two of the past three seasons, Darqueze Dennard has been one of the top 10 slot corners in PFF coverage grade. Cincinnati can bring him back for a low cost and form a nice secondary with him, William Jackson III, Darius Phillips and, perhaps, Byron Jones to replace Kirkpatrick. Among all 32 NFL teams, the Bengals' offensive guards were 30th in overall grade and 31st in pass-protection, where they lost more than any team. Signing Joe Thuney, who owns the third best two-year pass-blocking grade at the position, would certainly help.

I’d keep Glenn if he willing to move inside like last year to LG. I’d try and trade Dalton and Dre during the draft or leading up to for picks. Gotta resign Dennard AJ billing and Eifert imo. There’s no way we sign Byron Jones he will get a huge contract somewhere else. Would love thuney if glenn is cut. Please sign Corey Littleton!

(02-11-2020, 02:27 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: Some pretty interesting stuff.  I did not realize our guards were so bad.  What do you think of their recommended cuts and additions?

CINCINNATI BENGALS

Projected cap space: $44.7 million

Players to target: CB Byron Jones, G Joe Thuney, TE Hunter Henry

Soon-to-be unrestricted free agents: WR A.J. Green, DI Andrew Billings, CB Darqueze Dennard, TE Tyler Eifert, S Clayton Fejedelem, T John Jerry, LB Nick Vigil

Potential cuts: T Cordy Glenn (saves $9.5 million in 2020), CB Dre Kirkpatrick (saves $8.4 million in 2020), QB Andy Dalton (saves $17.7 million in 2020)

Since Cincinnati didn’t trade wide receiver A.J. Green at the in-season deadline, it’d be hard to imagine them letting him walk in free agency. A long-term deal or the franchise tag is destined to happen. He hasn’t stepped on the field since Week 13 of 2018, but we have to recognize how great of a player Green is when healthy. Even with not playing the past year and a half, Green still ranks fourth in deep receiving yards (20-plus yard targets) and is tied for first in deep touchdowns since coming into the league in 2011. He’s exactly who Joe Burrow needs, and he should be a priority for Cincinnati this offseason. Cordy Glenn and Dre Kirkpatrick both had limited time on the field in their 2019 seasons due to injury, and if Cincinnati is serious about winning immediately, they would cut both to bring in an extra $18 million to make some plays. In two of the past three seasons, Darqueze Dennard has been one of the top 10 slot corners in PFF coverage grade. Cincinnati can bring him back for a low cost and form a nice secondary with him, William Jackson III, Darius Phillips and, perhaps, Byron Jones to replace Kirkpatrick. Among all 32 NFL teams, the Bengals' offensive guards were 30th in overall grade and 31st in pass-protection, where they lost more than any team. Signing Joe Thuney, who owns the third best two-year pass-blocking grade at the position, would certainly help.

This is a unique time for the front office.  They have a lousy team.  They have big contracts they can dump with no cap hit.  They have a huge war chest for sigining FA's.  They pick at the top of the draft 7 straight rounds. 


Ideal opportunity to overhaul the team with new starters in each position group.

Billings and Dennard should be targeted to re-sign, the others gone, especially Glenn.
Glenn, Kirkpatrick, Dalton should be gone via trade or cuts.
Green is a tough one if healthy.  The Green we knew is likely gone so what's the market for a healthy 32 WR?  I can't see tagging him at the high salary for a tag.  He can probably be brought back on a 2 year deal that is reasonable and full of incentives to achieve top 5 pay.  After all Burrows needs a healthy Green.  Unhealthy Green has to be cut.

It's almost cute that PFF listed B Jones, Thurney, and Henry in FAs for the Bengals to target.

Meanwhile we know the reality is they'll just sign a couple mediocre or bad players for more than they're worth and call it a FA.

(02-11-2020, 02:34 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: I’d keep Glenn if he willing to move inside like last year to LG.  I’d try and trade Dalton and Dre during the draft or leading up to for picks.  Gotta resign Dennard AJ billing and Eifert imo.  There’s no way we sign Byron Jones he will get a huge contract somewhere else.  Would love thuney if glenn is cut. Please sign Corey Littleton!

What do you believe would be the average contract for Littleton?

(02-11-2020, 02:50 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: This is a unique time for the front office.  They have a lousy team.  They have big contracts they can dump with no cap hit.  They have a huge war chest for sigining FA's.  They pick at the top of the draft 7 straight rounds. 


Ideal opportunity to overhaul the team with new starters in each position group.

Billings and Dennard should be targeted to re-sign, the others gone, especially Glenn.
Glenn, Kirkpatrick, Dalton should be gone via trade or cuts.
Green is a tough one if healthy.  The Green we knew is likely gone so what's the market for a healthy 32 WR?  I can't see tagging him at the high salary for a tag.  He can probably be brought back on a 2 year deal that is reasonable and full of incentives to achieve top 5 pay.  After all Burrows needs a healthy Green.  Unhealthy Green has to be cut.

Could not agree more. I sure don't trust Glenn, Dre is overpaid, and 17 million is a little pricey for a back-up QB.  Incentive-laden contract is the way to go for AJ.

Thanks for some positivity.  This is in fact an ideal opportunity.  I'm sure this thread will devolve into a front office bashing (it's already started).  But let's dream a little.

Cutting Glenn and Dalton should be a must. I’m all set with sinking more resources into the TE position when are defense is awful and are O-line needs work. I would resign Billings he’s young and shouldn’t cost to much as 4-3 NT. I’d only resign Dennard if the contact made sense he shouldn’t be paid like a top outside CB the guy can’t stay healthy. I love Tuney been a day one starter since his rookie year and plays at a high level. If Tuney gets a big money contract the Bengals won’t match I would look a Graham Glasgow as a more realistic option. Sad thing is the Bengals think there all set at Guard with Jordan and Miller.

(02-11-2020, 02:58 PM)Synric Wrote: What do you believe would be the average contract for Littleton?

4-5 years at $14m/yr, if I had to guess.

$10m-ish signing bonus.
$20m or 25m in guaranteed money depending on if it's 4 or 5 years.

(02-11-2020, 03:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 4-5 years at $14m/yr, if I had to guess.

$10m-ish signing bonus.
$20m or 25m in guaranteed money depending on if it's 4 or 5 years.

I was gonna split the difference between Kwon Alexander's 13.5 and CJ Mosleys 17.5 and call it 15mil a year...

That is ALOT of money to a non premium postion. You could probably get Indy Guard Joe Haeg and Pats Linebacker Jamie Collins for roughly the same price. 

Can someone draw a venn diagram? On one end. have a circle titled "guys in the building." Then just draw another circle titled "desirable free agents."

There is no need for overlap.

(02-11-2020, 03:25 PM)Synric Wrote: I was gonna split the difference between Kwon Alexander's 13.5 and CJ Mosleys 17.5 and call it 15mil a year...

That is ALOT of money to a non premium postion. You could probably get Indy Guard Joe Haeg and Pats Linebacker Jamie Collins for roughly the same price. 

A non-premium position that the Bengals are incapable of filling. A ton of wasted resources going towards a lot of terrible production... Preston Brown, Nick Vigil, AJ Hawk, Carlos Dansby, etc, etc.

The weakest part of the D is by far the LBs, and if you improve them then you improve the DL and DBs at least a little bit because they can then focus on doing just their own job a bit more.

- - - - - - -

Once you factor in the Dalton, Glenn, Kirkpatrick money, you're well up into $80m cap space. You could sign 5 players at $15m/yr and still be fine. The money isn't an issue. 

I'd throw cash at Conklin, Thuney (or Scherff), Littleton, AND Schobert. Even those four shouldn't be more than $60m/yr. The money is there, so spend it.

Two high quality LBs and the defense is fixed (unless the DC is just garbage).
Two high quality OL and the offense is at least much better. Protects Burrow in the passing game and should improve the run game for him. 

Then you can focus on getting Burrow a WR, a TE, and adding another CB to the mix with rounds 2, 3, and 4.

Gotta get your spending in while you have Burrow relatively cheap.

(02-11-2020, 02:27 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: Some pretty interesting stuff.  I did not realize our guards were so bad.  What do you think of their recommended cuts and additions?

CINCINNATI BENGALS

Projected cap space: $44.7 million

Players to target: CB Byron Jones, G Joe Thuney, TE Hunter Henry

Soon-to-be unrestricted free agents: WR A.J. Green, DI Andrew Billings, CB Darqueze Dennard, TE Tyler Eifert, S Clayton Fejedelem, T John Jerry, LB Nick Vigil

Potential cuts: T Cordy Glenn (saves $9.5 million in 2020), CB Dre Kirkpatrick (saves $8.4 million in 2020), QB Andy Dalton (saves $17.7 million in 2020)

Since Cincinnati didn’t trade wide receiver A.J. Green at the in-season deadline, it’d be hard to imagine them letting him walk in free agency. A long-term deal or the franchise tag is destined to happen. He hasn’t stepped on the field since Week 13 of 2018, but we have to recognize how great of a player Green is when healthy. Even with not playing the past year and a half, Green still ranks fourth in deep receiving yards (20-plus yard targets) and is tied for first in deep touchdowns since coming into the league in 2011. He’s exactly who Joe Burrow needs, and he should be a priority for Cincinnati this offseason. Cordy Glenn and Dre Kirkpatrick both had limited time on the field in their 2019 seasons due to injury, and if Cincinnati is serious about winning immediately, they would cut both to bring in an extra $18 million to make some plays. In two of the past three seasons, Darqueze Dennard has been one of the top 10 slot corners in PFF coverage grade. Cincinnati can bring him back for a low cost and form a nice secondary with him, William Jackson III, Darius Phillips and, perhaps, Byron Jones to replace Kirkpatrick. Among all 32 NFL teams, the Bengals' offensive guards were 30th in overall grade and 31st in pass-protection, where they lost more than any team. Signing Joe Thuney, who owns the third best two-year pass-blocking grade at the position, would certainly help.

Yes they are

I'd love to see us sign a real free agent Olineman

(02-11-2020, 03:25 PM)Synric Wrote: I was gonna split the difference between Kwon Alexander's 13.5 and CJ Mosleys 17.5 and call it 15mil a year...

That is ALOT of money to a non premium postion. You could probably get Indy Guard Joe Haeg and Pats Linebacker Jamie Collins for roughly the same price. 

I think it's closer to Jordan Hicks then a Kwon Alexander hoenstly. Somewhere around 10-12 a year would be my guess.

(02-11-2020, 03:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 4-5 years at $14m/yr, if I had to guess.

$10m-ish signing bonus.
$20m or 25m in guaranteed money depending on if it's 4 or 5 years.

Read an article on Rams SB nation and it had very similar numbers, except the guaranteed money was at 30-35. So you know for sure this is waaaaay out of bengals depth of guaranteed money they like to dish out

(02-11-2020, 02:27 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: Some pretty interesting stuff.  I did not realize our guards were so bad.  What do you think of their recommended cuts and additions?

CINCINNATI BENGALS

Projected cap space: $44.7 million

Players to target: CB Byron Jones, G Joe Thuney, TE Hunter Henry

Soon-to-be unrestricted free agents: WR A.J. Green, DI Andrew Billings, CB Darqueze Dennard, TE Tyler Eifert, S Clayton Fejedelem, T John Jerry, LB Nick Vigil

Potential cuts: T Cordy Glenn (saves $9.5 million in 2020), CB Dre Kirkpatrick (saves $8.4 million in 2020), QB Andy Dalton (saves $17.7 million in 2020)

Since Cincinnati didn’t trade wide receiver A.J. Green at the in-season deadline, it’d be hard to imagine them letting him walk in free agency. A long-term deal or the franchise tag is destined to happen. He hasn’t stepped on the field since Week 13 of 2018, but we have to recognize how great of a player Green is when healthy. Even with not playing the past year and a half, Green still ranks fourth in deep receiving yards (20-plus yard targets) and is tied for first in deep touchdowns since coming into the league in 2011. He’s exactly who Joe Burrow needs, and he should be a priority for Cincinnati this offseason. Cordy Glenn and Dre Kirkpatrick both had limited time on the field in their 2019 seasons due to injury, and if Cincinnati is serious about winning immediately, they would cut both to bring in an extra $18 million to make some plays. In two of the past three seasons, Darqueze Dennard has been one of the top 10 slot corners in PFF coverage grade. Cincinnati can bring him back for a low cost and form a nice secondary with him, William Jackson III, Darius Phillips and, perhaps, Byron Jones to replace Kirkpatrick. Among all 32 NFL teams, the Bengals' offensive guards were 30th in overall grade and 31st in pass-protection, where they lost more than any team. Signing Joe Thuney, who owns the third best two-year pass-blocking grade at the position, would certainly help.

Would love this, this is the way to go except I would add a LB in FA over Byron Jones if I had to choose. Darius Phillips
looks to be a player let him fight for Kirkpatrick's spot with a Draft pick or two. Linebacker is by far our biggest hole on 
Defense. Bring in Jamie Collins, Corey Littleton or Danny Trevathan along with Thuney and Henry and man, this team 
would be on the up and up going into the Draft.

(02-11-2020, 02:50 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: This is a unique time for the front office.  They have a lousy team.  They have big contracts they can dump with no cap hit.  They have a huge war chest for sigining FA's.  They pick at the top of the draft 7 straight rounds. 


Ideal opportunity to overhaul the team with new starters in each position group.

Billings and Dennard should be targeted to re-sign, the others gone, especially Glenn.
Glenn, Kirkpatrick, Dalton should be gone via trade or cuts.
Green is a tough one if healthy.  The Green we knew is likely gone so what's the market for a healthy 32 WR?  I can't see tagging him at the high salary for a tag.  He can probably be brought back on a 2 year deal that is reasonable and full of incentives to achieve top 5 pay.  After all Burrows needs a healthy Green.  Unhealthy Green has to be cut.

(02-11-2020, 02:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It's almost cute that PFF listed B Jones, Thurney, and Henry in FAs for the Bengals to target.

Meanwhile we know the reality is they'll just sign a couple mediocre or bad players for more than they're worth and call it a FA.

There certainly is a great opportunity coming for the Bengals front office.

But then there is Model Model, Mike Brown's brain child that has failed the team since the day it was written.

Which will win out? Model Model or exploiting the opportunity presenting the team to put a winner on the field

 

The Bengals won't have room to bring in any good FAs if they keep all of Dalton, Glenn, and Kirkpatrick.
$45 mill is really in the low-mid 30's due to the Bengals needing to reserve cap for the draft and injuries.
And that would get eaten up just by signing Green, Billings, Dennard, and maybe Vigil.

Dropping Dalton and Glenn ($27 mill in total) should be about enough to sign Thuney and Littleton, which would be fantastic for the Bengals.
I doubt they would cut Kirkpatrick unless they can get Dennard re-signed and WJ3 extended in March.

(02-11-2020, 02:34 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: I’d keep Glenn if he willing to move inside like last year to LG.  I’d try and trade Dalton and Dre during the draft or leading up to for picks.  Gotta resign Dennard AJ billing and Eifert imo.  There’s no way we sign Byron Jones he will get a huge contract somewhere else.  Would love thuney if glenn is cut.  Please sign Corey Littleton!

Glenn quit on the team.. that would be a bad early message by Taylor if Glenn is not cut. CB is not a great area for us with performance and other contracts coming up.. I probably keep Dre if they feel healthy.. we don;t have much in place behind him

(02-12-2020, 12:13 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Glenn quit on the team.. that would be a bad early message by Taylor if Glenn is not cut. CB is not a great area for us with performance and other contracts coming up.. I probably keep Dre if they feel healthy.. we don;t have much in place behind him

Exactly Glenn is a good as gone can’t believe people think they would actually keep him. If he faked the concussion you don’t want him on the team and if you think he didn’t then he still needs to be cut because he’s one hit away from being out for the season. Plus Glenn has been in the league 10 years and hasn’t played guard since college and they wouldn’t pay him 9.5 million to play guard for a year.

(02-11-2020, 03:25 PM)Synric Wrote: I was gonna split the difference between Kwon Alexander's 13.5 and CJ Mosleys 17.5 and call it 15mil a year...

That is ALOT of money to a non premium postion. You could probably get Indy Guard Joe Haeg and Pats Linebacker Jamie Collins for roughly the same price. 

That's debatable. 
One of the primary positions on defense under Marvin Lewis was the WILL linebacker.
I'm not sure yet where Taylor and Anarumo stand regarding importance of LB, but (at least) one MIKE/WILL LB is key for a 4-3 scheme to work well.

I think the amount for Littleton will be around what you say though.
And I think what that amount would mean would be whether the Bengals retain AJ Green or put toward a guy like Littleton.
Personally, I go Littleton because Green won't be nearly as productive by the time the Bengals become a true contender again.