(02-15-2020, 10:36 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Is that your goal to get people, smash others opinions?

Let's get back to reality and facts. Please show all of the posts backing AD as our starting QB in 2020. You just say things that are factually true which makes your arguments flat out BS at times. There is those with Trump derangement syndrome and Bengals fans with Dalton derangement syndrome. Why? It is a game and the guy always gave his all and was the best QB ever for giving back to our community. His reward, throw him under the bus.

AD is leaving soon, why not wish him well and show an ounce of class as he leaves. It won't kill you.

Oh I gotcha, don't express any of my opinions while the Dalton Gangers get to rant on and on about how he has been given a raw deal and will come back to haunt us when he succeeds elsewhere. To make it clear, Dalton was given nine years and paid 85 million to do what he has done. He did it for the money. He didn't do it for me and he didn't do it for you and the Dalton Gangers.  He wasn. 't the highest paid QB over that time but was far from being a top ten QB. The fans and MB owe him nothing but a handshake. Stop trying to lay a guilt trip on loyal fans for expressing their opinions.

(02-14-2020, 10:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Most of you think it doesn’t matter who is the QB in NE. How many times have people brought up Cassel here? Not sure it’s any kind of proof of Dalton’s quality that they’d rather him start over Jared Stidham.

Who thinks the QB position in the NFL is not very important? We can have a discussion about the talent of a certain QB and have far reaching outcomes of their ability. That is not proof anyone thinks the position is not a key to success in the NFL.

My comment about if BB trades for him to use as a starting QB in 2020 would say he has respect for AD as we know Belichick is 100% about winning and if he chooses AD over a lot of other options available through FA or trade, that would be a big deal.

(02-15-2020, 10:50 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Again though, I wouldn't say he's outright terrible; he made some in-game mistakes, but he was a rookie coach (Marv made a shit-ton of mistakes up until he left and even then, the majority of them were in his first 4 years).

If he had a stacked team, no injuries and still performed the way the team did, I'd say he's horrible too.

But after last season, the jury's still out, with some terrible tendencies, but he's definitely not, "outright terrible until proven otherwise."

He did some good things that the other guys I mentioned could not; he:

- Kept the lockerroom together and constantly fighting (Kitchens, Gase, Lynn and Marrone couldn't)
- Rotated and tried young guys out, different combinations and tried to see what stuck and what didn't (Gase, Flores, Lynn didn't)
- Changed scheme up and shifted when things were getting stale (NONE of the coaches I mentioned did any of that)
- Cut bait on players that needed to be gotten rid of/receive less playing time (Only the Browns got rid of dead bait and that's less on the coaching, more on Dorsey. The Dolphins got rid of a ton of talent for draft picks that may or may not be a good decision; we'll see 2 years from now).

We know his failings, but to say he was 100% inept/out of depth/bad/terrible/etc., is hyperbole at worst and hating at best.

The other coaches are already on the hot seat and/or gone from their team, due to their seasons last year (aside from Flores); Zac isn't as he deserves at least 1 more year with a healthy team. If he STILL shits the bed with no injuries and a more stacked team, then I'm all for punting him.

The main reason why he definitely deserves another season, is the team improved in many areas down the stretch; run D was better, run O was better, turnovers were fewer, more points scored, more sacks, more picks, etc.

Everyone points to the teams we played being worse, but then you have a Cleveland team stomp the shit out of Bmore; any given Sunday indeed.

After a (hopefully) good draft and a sound (not expecting anything ridiculous) Free Agency, I think Zac will get the guys playing hard and make a believer out of everyone... but we'll see.

Fair enough and good points.

Not that it would have mattered(only a handful more IMO)but I could have seen Marvin, and yes with Dalton, win some of those games.

That being said, it doesn't mean I'm a "Dalton Ganger" or pine for Marvin over another coach.

It more or less says that Zac wasn't the answer just like Marvin wasn't.  He just proved it quicker.

People were and still are making excuses just like they state Dalton apologists do. 

Hell let's just throw out anomaly examples like Tom Landry's greatness for losing week after week to squeeze out false optimism.

As for Catmandude, who acts as if "Anyone is better than Marvin and boasts that the team will win 10+ games even with Dalton and no way he'll have a worse record than Marvin" never happened, is not telling the truth.

There were MANY on this board that thought Zac would take the team from the abyss with innovation/mental savvy and even get players to improve(which almost every position declined through the season).

Other than some blocking changes I did not see anything that shows promise of coaching(most importantly playcalling)besides some players playing hard.

They boosted in a few areas against some pretty poor teams in the end.  Big deal.

I don't GAF about eating crow after watching this team flail and fail, my patience is thin and some dumbass immature poster isn't going to make me look foolish for feeling skeptical.

(02-15-2020, 11:11 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I know but I heard rumors about some of the rest of you allowing him to.

Dude, what is your deal? 

Worst. Poster. Ever.

(02-15-2020, 11:26 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Fair enough and good points.

Not that it would have mattered(only a handful more IMO)but I could have seen Marvin, and yes with Dalton, win some of those games.

That being said, it doesn't mean I'm a "Dalton Ganger" or pine for Marvin over another coach.

It more or less says that Zac wasn't the answer just like Marvin wasn't.  He just proved it quicker.

People were and still are making excuses just like they state Dalton apologists do. 

Hell let's just throw out anomaly examples like Tom Landry's greatness for losing week after week to squeeze out false optimism.

As for Catmandude, who acts as if "Anyone is better than Marvin and boasts that the team will win 10+ games even with Dalton and no way he'll have a worse record than Marvin" never happened, is not telling the truth.

There were MANY on this board that thought Zac would take the team from the abyss with innovation/mental savvy and even get players to improve(which almost every position declined through the season).

Other than some blocking changes I did not see anything that shows promise of coaching(most importantly playcalling)besides some players playing hard.

They boosted in a few areas against some pretty poor teams in the end.  Big deal.

I don't GAF about eating crow after watching this team flail and fail, my patience is thin and some dumbass immature poster isn't going to make me look foolish for feeling skeptical.

   I guess setting a lynch mob on Zac is equal to feeling skeptical ? It's a reality that others won't always feel the same as you but you have an option , you know what opinions others have when you have read their posts so just don't read their posts anymore. Get your game on you're a Rockstar.

(02-15-2020, 11:31 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Dude, what is your deal? 

Worst. Poster. Ever.

Read the one I replied to. Someone can refer to raping someone's wife and that is alright? 

(02-15-2020, 11:39 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote:    I guess setting a lynch mob on Zac is equal to feeling skeptical ? It's a reality that others won't always feel the same as you but you have an option , you know what opinions others have when you have read their posts so just don't read their posts anymore. Get your game on you're a Rockstar.

How about you just tell me what impressed you from Zac?

What did he do to move the needle on you hope-for-the-future meter?

I'll read what you post.  Let's see what you got that deserves praise.

(02-15-2020, 11:39 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote:    I guess setting a lynch mob on Zac is equal to feeling skeptical ? It's a reality that others won't always feel the same as you but you have an option , you know what opinions others have when you have read their posts so just don't read their posts anymore. Get your game on you're a Rockstar.

You want to see how skeptical people are about Zac and the future?

Look at the empty stadium.

(02-14-2020, 03:25 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Beyond false:

- Gase (by far)
- Kitchens
- Lynn
- Flores
- Marrone

Were all worse, with only one of those being arguable (Flores).

Gase is arguably the worst coach in NFL history, up there with Shula, Shurmur, Bert Bell (look him up), Spagnuolo, etc.

Gase has a 30-34 overall record. Here's his seasons:

2016 - 10-6
2017 - 7-9
2018 - 6-10
2019 - 7-9

Just to be clear, I don't even like Gase. Wouldn't want him here. But I don't know how you can deem Taylor, who went 2-14, as already better "by far". 

Maybe you have Gase confussd with someone else, or maybe he was your childhood bully. Regardless, there is no way he arguably the worst coach in NFL history. That's just a moronic statement.

(02-15-2020, 08:33 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  Your answer is we keep Dalton and others and don't even try to improve. Gottcha!!

WTF?

Please link to where I said anything like this or STFU.

It is like you can't even read simple words and phrases and understand what they mean.

(02-15-2020, 12:12 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Gase has a 30-34 overall record. Here's his seasons:

2016 - 10-6
2017 - 7-9
2018 - 6-10
2019 - 7-9

Just to be clear, I don't even like Gase. Wouldn't want him here. But I don't know how you can deem Taylor, who went 2-14, as already better "by far". 

Maybe you have Gase confussd with someone else, or maybe he was your childhood bully. Regardless, there is no way he arguably the worst coach in NFL history. That's just a moronic statement.

Record means absolutely nothing.

Marv has a winning record and a .518 winning percentage as a head coach and a ton of wins.

Is he a better coach than:

- Jon Gruden
- Buddy Ryan
- Ted Marchibroda
- Sam Wyche
- Forest Gregg

All of those coaches made it farther and built arguably better teams than Marv did (we know firsthand that some of those coaches built EXCELLENT teams), plus did more with less, some years.

Gase has broken 2 lockerrooms (though he has a shot at redemption in year 2 with the Jets) and has fielded horrid teams in his too many seasons at HC.

Still living off of Peyton Manning's exploits in 2013 and 2014.

(02-14-2020, 03:25 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: - Marrone

Marone went to the AFC Championship game two years ago!!!

Marone has a near .500 winning % (.451) vs Taylor's .125.

Where are you coming up with these names if anywhere outside your arse?  There is no way Marrone is clearly a worse coach than Taylor.

Until Taylor does more than win 2 games and finish dead last you can't elevate him above anyone. And certainly not a coach who was a game away from the Superbowl.

(02-15-2020, 11:51 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: How about you just tell me what impressed you from Zac?

What did he do to move the needle on you hope-for-the-future meter?

I'll read what you post.  Let's see what you got that deserves praise.

First of all he inherited a train wreck from Marvin. They lost 12 of their last fourteen games in 2018. Couldn't sign with the team or interview assistants until after the SB. No help from FO in free agency, no #1 WR no starting right guard, no starting left tackle for the first 12 games, no #3 WR for ten games. The team stayed together through all this adversity. If you refuse to ignore how he was handcuffed,I guess your expectations and mine differ but I would give him one or two more years to prove himself with his own team before totally saying he was a failure. Btw if you have any thoughts that some top HC is coming to Cincy you are wrong. Only inexperienced coaches would come here and you would have the same growing pains with him.

(02-15-2020, 12:43 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: First of all he inherited a train wreck from Marvin. They lost 12 of their last fourteen games in 2018. Couldn't sign with the team or interview assistants until after the SB. No help from FO in free agency, no #1 WR no starting right guard, no starting left tackle for the first 12 games, no #3 WR for ten games. The team stayed together through all this adversity. If you refuse to ignore how he was handcuffed,I guess your expectations and mine differ but I would give him one or two more years to prove himself with his own team before totally saying he was a failure. Btw if you have any thoughts that some top HC is coming to Cincy you are wrong. Only inexperienced coaches would come here and you would have the same growing pains with him.

It's true that Zac Taylor was dealt a shitty hand to work with in his HC debut.  Everyone knows that being the one in charge comes not only with the lauds and praises for success, but also with all of the criticism when things go awry.

I happen to be of a point of view that thinks that we won't really see what Zac can do as a HC, until he's given at least another season to get his bigger picture plans in motion.

(02-15-2020, 12:43 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: First of all he inherited a train wreck from Marvin. They lost 12 of their last fourteen games in 2018. Couldn't sign with the team or interview assistants until after the SB. No help from FO in free agency, no #1 WR no starting right guard, no starting left tackle for the first 12 games, no #3 WR for ten games. The team stayed together through all this adversity. If you refuse to ignore how he was handcuffed,I guess your expectations and mine differ but I would give him one or two more years to prove himself with his own team before totally saying he was a failure. Btw if you have any thoughts that some top HC is coming to Cincy you are wrong. Only inexperienced coaches would come here and you would have the same growing pains with him.

I find it funny that many of the hinderances and obstacles you apply to Zach Taylor you in turn immediately dismiss when applied to Andy Dalton.

People who offer up the opinion that Dalton suffered from terrible line play, having no AJ, etc. are this collection of apologists. Yet here you uss many of the same takes, and just shiff them from player to coach.

I'll tell you, you Taylor Gangers are something else. Gobshites? Am I doing it right?

(02-15-2020, 12:27 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Marone went to the AFC Championship game two years ago!!!

Marone has a near .500 winning % (.451) vs Taylor's .125.

Where are you coming up with these names if anywhere outside your arse?  There is no way Marrone is clearly a worse coach than Taylor.

Until Taylor does more than win 2 games and finish dead last you can't elevate him above anyone. And certainly not a coach who was a game away from the Superbowl.

Marrone averages 6 wins per season over six seasons. Zac has 2 in one season. Wouldn't take long to be fired averaging six wins a season especially after the owner goes out and buys a roster of talent which MB will never do.

(02-15-2020, 12:27 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Marone went to the AFC Championship game two years ago!!!

Marone has a near .500 winning % (.451) vs Taylor's .125.

Where are you coming up with these names if anywhere outside your arse?  There is no way Marrone is clearly a worse coach than Taylor.

Until Taylor does more than win 2 games and finish dead last you can't elevate him above anyone. And certainly not a coach who was a game away from the Superbowl.

I said last year FFS.

Quoted:

Quote:Beyond false:

- Gase (by far)
- Kitchens
- Lynn
- Flores
- Marrone

Were all worse, with only one of those being arguable (Flores).

Why are you so triggered? Marrone had a MUCH more talented Jaguars team (defense specifically, on O, about the same as us) play like crap all season long, despite trying a ton of different combinations at all the position groups.

Unless you have a bone to pick with me (which I don't know why you would), lay the **** off. I presented my piece, backed it up to death and you continually fling snark.

Find something else to play around with.

EDIT* just because I thought about it now, you see how Rocker and I had a nice back and forth, where we stated some facts, some opinions, refuted each other and left with a reasonable end, without making it personal or resorting to snark-flinging? THAT's how you converse in an adult and humane manner.

(02-15-2020, 12:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I find it funny that many of the hinderances and obstacles you apply to Zach Taylor you in turn immediately dismiss when applied to Andy Dalton.

People who offer up the opinion that Dalton suffered from terrible line play, having no AJ, etc. are this collection of apologists. Yet here you uss many of the same takes, and just shiff them from player to coach.

I'll tell you, you Taylor Gangers are something else. Gobshites? Am I doing it right?

   I thought you were going to correct me on why Zac should be canned, boiled in oil, burned at the stake but instead you change the narrative because you make no sense. Ultimate gobshite. BTW the Taylor Gangers will ride again next year and the Dalton Gangers will ride into the sunset eating mass amounts of crow.

(02-15-2020, 11:56 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: You want to see how skeptical people are about Zac and the future?

Look at the empty stadium.

Watch it fill up to the rim with your boy Andy gone and Burrow at the helm.

(02-15-2020, 12:55 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Marrone averages 5 wins per season over five full seasons. Zac has 2 in one season. Wouldn't take long to be fired averaging five games a season especially after the owner goes out and buys a roster of talent which MB will never do.

Marrone's career record is 37-45 over 5 seasons and 1 interim game. An average of over 7 wins a season.

Buffalo

6-10
9-7

Average Wins = 7.5

Jacksonville

10-6
6-10
5-11

Average Wins = 7

He's also 2-1 in the playoffs, with an AFC Championship appearance. He was 4pts away from the Superbowl, after a 24-20 loss to the Patriots. This in year 1, after taking over a 3-13 team.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where are you coming up with these stats? Too lazy to do the research? Bad at math? Completely uniformed? Or just plain lying? Got to be one of them.