(02-15-2020, 01:01 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:    I thought you were going to correct me on why Zac should be canned, boiled in oil, burned at the stake but instead you change the narrative because you make no sense.

Me? I think you have me confused with someone else, bud.

I've long stated that Taylor should get a year 2, and that he's been made somewhat of a scapegoat, handcuffed by an inept front office. I've never once called for his job.

You really are something else. Luvinitz is right, you argue with yourself. Or you create these stances and positions in your head. You just did it to Fred earlier. You accuse people of saying or believs things they did or do not. It's bonkers.

What's funny is you probably label me a "Dalton Ganger" simply for not thinking he's pure garbage. Anyone who sees this, Shake, Fred, Luvinitz, etc would be the first fo tell you that I'm the furthest thing from a Dalton lover you can find. And they can tell you that cuz they can actually read, and correctly attribute opinions to the correct source. It's not that hard to do, yet you confinually fail.

(02-15-2020, 01:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Marrone's career record is 37-45 over 5 seasons and 1 interim game. An average of over 7 wins a season.

Buffalo

6-10
9-7

Average Wins = 7.5

Jacksonville

10-6
6-10
5-11

Average Wins = 7

He's also 2-1 in the playoffs, with an AFC Championship appearance. He was 4pts away from the Superbowl, after a 24-20 loss to the Patriots. This in year 1, after taking over a 3-13 team.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where are you coming up with these stats? Too lazy to do the research? Bad at math? Completely uniformed? Or just plain lying? Got to be one of them.

So being eight games under 500 is your goal for a top HC? He inherited the top defense when his team went to the playoffs. See any discrepancy between what Zac inherited. His owner went out and got him the SB MVP in free agency. He completely lost the team causing their best player to demand to be traded even though he won more games. Zac will improve and Marrone will never see the light of day as a HC so yes Marrone is worse.

(02-15-2020, 01:34 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So being eight games under 500 is your goal for a top HC? 

Did I say that?

See, here we go again. Do you not get tired of putting words in people's mouths?

Someone said Taylor was clearly a better HC than Marrone. My position was simple, and nothing to do with a top HC, what makes a good coach or great coach, or anything of the sort.

You cannot say a coach with 1 year experience and a .125 winning percentage is clearly better than a coach with a .451 winning percentage and an AFC Championship appearance. Period.

This doesn't mean Marrone is great or that Taylor is destined for failure. All it means is to say, that right now, Taylor is clearly better, stated as fact, is absolutely 100% ridiculous.

(02-15-2020, 01:42 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Did I say that?

See, here we go again. Do you not get tired of putting words in people's mouths?

Someone said Taylor was clearly a better HC than Marrone. My position was simple, and nothing to do with a top HC, what makes a good coach or great coach, or anything of the sort.

You cannot say a coach with 1 year experience and a .125 winning percentage is clearly better than a coach with a .451 winning percentage and an AFC Championship appearance. Period.

This doesn't mean Marrone is great or that Taylor is destined for failure. All it means is to say, that right now, Taylor is clearly better, stated as fact, is absolutely 100% ridiculous.

I said last year he did a better job than Marrone. Even quoted what I wrote.

Quote:See, here we go again. Do you not get tired of putting words in people's mouths?

(02-15-2020, 01:14 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Watch it fill up to the rim with your boy Andy gone and Burrow at the helm.

I think it's gonna take actual winning to start filling the stadium again. Burrow will bring a few more butts to seats, but I don't think it'll be near a packed house unless the Steelers or Browns are in town. We've been fooled too many times.

(02-15-2020, 01:43 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I said last year he did a better job than Marrone. Even quoted what I wrote.

How. Taylor won 2 games. Marrone won 5.  

- 5 > 2 

- 5 is more than twice the amount of wins.

Marrone had his starting QB go down in week 1 and then missed ten games. Which forced him to play with a 6 round rookie for the bulk of the season. His best player (Jalen Ramsey) was traded away after a contract dispute.

If you're going to factor the loss of Green and Williams, you have to factor in the loss of Foles and Ramsey. Both are bigger losses.

Taylor won the least amount of games in the league. Taylor has no history to fall back on. Until he shows or does more it's not fair to say he's better than anybody. End of story.

Unless we suddenly see a head coach throwing every touchdown pass himself and catching every pass himself and making every tackle himself I'm going to assume he's not entirely responsible for everything that ever happens during a season of football. Sure, they bare a certain amount of responsibility, but lets not pretend they're in the heads of every player during every snap on the field. While I'm not wild about Zac he threw zero interceptions this past season and missed zero tackles.  And the same applies for Andy. He missed zero catches thrown his way running downfield at full speed. That doesn't mean he's the greatest QB ever, but neither does it mean he's the worst ever..
We sometimes pretend that the entire season hinges on one person 100% of every game, every season.

(02-15-2020, 12:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I find it funny that many of the hinderances and obstacles you apply to Zach Taylor you in turn immediately dismiss when applied to Andy Dalton.

People who offer up the opinion that Dalton suffered from terrible line play, having no AJ, etc. are this collection of apologists. Yet here you us many of the same takes, and just shiff them from player to coach.

Rep.

At this point he is just flat out trolling.

(02-15-2020, 01:54 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: How. Taylor won 2 games. Marrone won 5.  

- 5 > 2 

- 5 is more than twice the amount of wins.

Marrone had his starting QB go down in week 1 and then missed ten games. Which forced him to play with a 6 round rookie for the bulk of the season. His best player (Jalen Ramsey) was traded away after a contract dispute.

If you're going to factor the loss of Green and Williams, you have to factor in the loss of Foles and Ramsey. Both are bigger losses.

Taylor won the least amount of games in the league. Taylor has no history to fall back on. Until he shows or does more it's not fair to say he's better than anybody. End of story.

Marrone lost the lockerroom last year; guys were not willing to fight for the team (though, the rumblings stopped after Ramsey left so it may have been him causing all the shit):

https://www.profootballrumors.com/?s=marrone

Not much there on lockerrom stuff.

He also tried a ton of things, between flip-flopping QBs, moving guys around and nothing stuck; Minshew had a few great games then fizzled out to end the year. The offensive and defensive ranking, while better than us, were not stellar:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax/2019.htm

This was a much healthier team, with supposedly more/better weapons on offense (I don't think so, personally) and 3 bonafide All-Pros on Defense (one left after numerous hissy-fits).

Yet, they still won only 6 games (not 5, BTW and 3 by one possession) and this is a coach in his 4th season in that position (3+, technically) on the team, in a much easier division (probably the easiest in the NFL).

Contrast that with a rookie coach, cutting his teeth, injured to death roster that, despite losing, FACTUALLY IMPROVED in each and every facet of the game, throughout the second half of the season, not to mention the division we play in (even if you discount the down year by Pitt and the shitsow that is Cleveland, there is no Bmore in the South), I would say that Zac did a better job with the hand dealt.

There's a reason the coach with the best record doesn't always win COTY or any other similar accolades.

(02-15-2020, 12:43 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  They lost 12 of their last fourteen games in 2018. 

(02-15-2020, 01:34 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: 1.) He inherited the top defense when his team went to the playoffs.

2.) See any discrepancy between what Zac inherited.

3.)His owner went out and got him the SB MVP in free agency.

4.) He completely lost the team causing their best player to demand to be traded even though he won more games.

5.) Zac will improve and Marrone will never see the light of day as a HC so yes Marrone is worse.

1.) He inherited the 25th ranked defense from 2016. Please stop lying.

2.) Yes.Marrone inherited a 3-13 team and went to the AFC Championship in year 1. Zach inherited a 6-10 team and went 2-14 in year 1. Marrone inherited a worse team.(3 < 6)

3.) Who got hurt in week 1, who was signed in year 3.

4.) Ramsey's leaving had everything to do with not getting a new deal. To blame Marrone for this is incredible.

5.) Maybe he will. Hard to imagine he won't, with nowhere to go but up. When he get's close to .500 and wins some playoff games then you may have a fair argument. Also, I have no idea what the last part means. Marrone currently is, and has been a HC. He's already seen the light of day.

(02-15-2020, 02:23 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) He inherited the 25th ranked defense from 2016. Please stop lying.

2.) Yes.Marrone inherited a 3-13 team and went to the AFC Championship in year 1. Zach inherited a 6-10 team and went 2-14 in year 1. Marrone inherited a worse team.(3 < 6)

3.) Who got hurt in week 1, who was signed in year 3.

4.) Ramsey's leaving had everything to do with not getting a new deal. To blame Marrone for this is incredible.

5.) Maybe he will. Hard to imagine he won't, with nowhere to go but up. When he get's close to .500 and wins some playoff games then you may have a fair argument. Also, I have no idea what the last part means. Marrone currently is, and has been a HC. He's already seen the light of day.

He was 1-1 in 2016 as the interim coach and had the #2 defense in the league in 2017 his first year. Three of the first year draft choices were offense in 2017.He inheirited a great defense! I was wrong about him being canned. If he wasn't he sure should have been.

(02-15-2020, 12:43 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: First of all he inherited a train wreck from Marvin. They lost 12 of their last fourteen games in 2018. Couldn't sign with the team or interview assistants until after the SB. No help from FO in free agency, no #1 WR no starting right guard, no starting left tackle for the first 12 games, no #3 WR for ten games. The team stayed together through all this adversity. If you refuse to ignore how he was handcuffed,I guess your expectations and mine differ but I would give him one or two more years to prove himself with his own team before totally saying he was a failure. Btw if you have any thoughts that some top HC is coming to Cincy you are wrong. Only inexperienced coaches would come here and you would have the same growing pains with him.

So, I guess winning two games against other trainwreck teams is an uptrend for you?

Yeah I'm not impressed.  Like... at all.

You overexaggerate everything by the way.  Boil him in oil?  Burn him alive?

No.  I just don't think he's very good, despite being "handcuffed".

Mainly because he did some real head-scratcher stuff with the players he had.

Everybody and their grandma thought he would not only be better than Marvin, but get more out of the players that Marvin coached.

The only crow I'll be eating is that I thought he would too.

So let's recap my reality here.  The only one that actual makes me feel silly for saying those things is me.

Why?  Because I'm an adult who doesn't let someone who has zero control over the future outcome of the team I watch affect me.

You're just guessing, and yes there's a chance he might succeed.

I just don't see much of anything moving the needle of positivity here from what we've already factually witnessed.

Will any change like Burrow at QB, who is well liked by Ohio bring more fans to games?  Probably.

Let's just hope whomever was making the decisions in the last draft is stifled this time, or they'll be circling the drain once again in the AFCN.

(02-14-2020, 09:49 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Maybe Billy B attempts to trade for both in a package deal.  

Sure would make watching a Patriots game feel weird. Plus they'd have Burkhead.

(02-15-2020, 01:01 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:    I thought you were going to correct me on why Zac should be canned, boiled in oil, burned at the stake but instead you change the narrative because you make no sense. Ultimate gobshite. BTW the Taylor Gangers will ride again next year and the Dalton Gangers will ride into the sunset eating mass amounts of crow.

I don't see how Dalton leaving after 9 years and multiple franchise records requires any crow eating.

(02-15-2020, 07:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Sure would make watching a Patriots game feel weird. Plus they'd have Burkhead.


I don't see how Dalton leaving after 9 years and multiple franchise records requires any crow eating.

Yep

Nobody that's liked or backed Dalton has anything to eat crow about. In fact the fans/team/city should give him a ticker tape parade when he leaves for doing as well as he did, all things considered.

(02-15-2020, 07:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Sure would make watching a Patriots game feel weird. Plus they'd have Burkhead.


I don't see how Dalton leaving after 9 years and multiple franchise records requires any crow eating.

They have Sanu as well... They should probably make some calls to Detroit to check on Marvin Jones... Maybe even see if Jeremy Hill is still in shape.

(02-15-2020, 11:31 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Dude, what is your deal? 

Worst. Poster. Ever.

They’ve both gone off the rails. I shouldn’t have to read about rape on a Bengals message board...

(02-15-2020, 08:45 PM)jason Wrote: They have Sanu as well... They should probably make some calls to Detroit to check on Marvin Jones... Maybe even see if Jeremy Hill is still in shape.

They already tried Hill.

If we can get a 3rd or a 4th for Andy you make the trade as soon as possible

Use the 17 million in savings and get some help on defense in free agency

(02-15-2020, 08:45 PM)jason Wrote: They have Sanu as well... They should probably make some calls to Detroit to check on Marvin Jones... Maybe even see if Jeremy Hill is still in shape.

(02-15-2020, 10:29 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: They already tried Hill.

Man this team has seen a lot of players come and go but does anyone compare to Hill as disliked by the fans?

Yeah the obvious from this thread are the ones who don't like Dalton but that's going to always be there because of frustration.

I'd say that Hill might have even surpassed Palmer, which many loathed for being a quitter, only to rethink their stance because of Mike Brown's ego and stubbornness.

Hill is the epitome of good riddance because of this nugget.  F that guy who did nothing to earn a ring.