(02-19-2020, 03:55 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I don't mean to keep harping on the same thing, but again, "poorly-run," isn't even accurate either.

Antiquated and stubborn, not poorly-run. They have systems, business models and all that in place. All of it is sound, but the product is not up to standards.

That's due to bad decisions, but not because the organization isn't competent or competently built.

McDonalds has had a POS product for a very long time, but their business model makes it run like a well-oiled machine and they make a lot of money.

That's putting out a crappy product, but it doesn't mean that the company run like idiots.

If you believe this, then you have not eaten a McDonald's in a very long time:

Fries - Best in the business
Soft Drinks and Sweet Tea - Best in the business due to expensive filtering equipment and only $1 for a large.
Quarter Pounder with Cheese - Cooked to order using fresh beef - awesome sandwich introduced in last 2 years.
Breakfast - McDonald's invented it and very high quality compared to competitors

McDonald's is successful because they evolve and listen to customers, they are the leader in changing to better ingredients, something the media will never give then credit for because it easier to be ignorant than to investigate the facts.

As far as the Bengals, they are the opposite of McDonald's, never change or intervent new ideas. They use the same old tired business model as you have suggested. MB never learned the definition of insanity, doing things the same way (unsuccessful ways) and getting better results.

(02-19-2020, 07:15 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If you believe this, then you have not eaten a McDonald's in a very long time:

Fries - Best in the business
Soft Drinks and Sweet Tea - Best in the business due to expensive filtering equipment and only $1 for a large.
Quarter Pounder with Cheese - Cooked to order using fresh beef - awesome sandwich introduced in last 2 years.
Breakfast - McDonald's invented it and very high quality compared to competitors

McDonald's is successful because they evolve and listen to customers, they are the leader in changing to better ingredients, something the media will never give then credit for because it easier to be ignorant than to investigate the facts.

As far as the Bengals, they are the opposite of McDonald's, never change or intervent new ideas. They use the same old tired business model as you have suggested. MB never learned the definition of insanity, doing things the same way (unsuccessful ways) and getting better results.

dude NOTHING at mcdonalds is cooked to order.  if you want a burger that doesn't leave the grill till your order is in from fast food you gotta go to wendys.

Mcdonalds is successful due to brand recognition and they hook you when your little.  

(02-19-2020, 03:55 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I don't mean to keep harping on the same thing, but again, "poorly-run," isn't even accurate either.

Antiquated and stubborn, not poorly-run. They have systems, business models and all that in place. All of it is sound, but the product is not up to standards.

That's due to bad decisions, but not because the organization isn't competent or competently built.

McDonalds has had a POS product for a very long time, but their business model makes it run like a well-oiled machine and they make a lot of money.

That's putting out a crappy product, but it doesn't mean that the company run like idiots.

Ehh, McDonalds puts a lot of effort and strategy into satisfying a very large market that wants cheap, consistent, and easy calories.  Though you could compare them to Mike Brown because they tried making real food like the Arch Deluxe and marketing it as high end stuff and it failed so they went right back to their old ways of making crap.

(02-19-2020, 07:15 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If you believe this, then you have not eaten a McDonald's in a very long time:

Fries - Best in the business
Soft Drinks and Sweet Tea - Best in the business due to expensive filtering equipment and only $1 for a large.
Quarter Pounder with Cheese - Cooked to order using fresh beef - awesome sandwich introduced in last 2 years.
Breakfast - McDonald's invented it and very high quality compared to competitors

McDonald's is successful because they evolve and listen to customers, they are the leader in changing to better ingredients, something the media will never give then credit for because it easier to be ignorant than to investigate the facts.

As far as the Bengals, they are the opposite of McDonald's, never change or intervent new ideas. They use the same old tired business model as you have suggested. MB never learned the definition of insanity, doing things the same way (unsuccessful ways) and getting better results.

Grimace, is that you?

(02-19-2020, 07:21 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: dude NOTHING at mcdonalds is cooked to order.  if you want a burger that doesn't leave the grill till your order is in from fast food you gotta go to wendys.

Mcdonalds is successful due to brand recognition and they hook you when your little.  

Sorry, you are spreading lies. Quarter Pounder with cheese are now hot off the grill (cooked to order) and also most restaurants cook to order everything after 9 p.m.

As for Wendy's, wrong also as the cook meat ahead of time and let it stew on the grill.

Chick Filet sells a great product, but it is NOT cooked to order either

(02-19-2020, 07:52 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Sorry, you are spreading lies. Quarter Pounder with cheese are now hot off the grill (cooked to order) and also most restaurants cook to order everything after 9 p.m.

As for Wendy's, wrong also as the cook meat ahead of time and let it stew on the grill.

Chick Filet sells a great product, but it is NOT cooked to order either

Are shamrock shakes back?

(02-19-2020, 05:12 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: It's literally impossible not to make a profit in this league. 

You could have an ownership group and front office consisting of: Honey Boo-Boo, Simple Jack, William Hung, and a Chimpanzee from the Cincinnati Zoo and still make tens upon tens of million dollars every single year.

If it were any other a business, a real business, they would have went under years ago.

They were dead last last year in % of tickets sold. 2nd to last in total tickets sold, only because the Chargers are stuck in a 30k stadium awaiting their new one. They were dead last in product quality (record).

If there are 32 widget makers and you rank 32nd in widgets sold you have a serious problem. If your widget ranks 32 out of 32 in product quality you have a serious problem. If you're the only widget maker in the last 30 years to have never won a single award you have a serious problem. These all are going out of business problems.

This is a business who tried to market a free popcorn with $1500+ purchase. This is a business who has been ridiculed by the media for decades. This is a business that continues to have the same problems and perception issues and refuses to adapt or change.

Everything about them is poorly run. In any other space they would've been laughed out of business by about 1997.

This is ridiculously far off base.

The first issue is that a high product quality doesn't necessarily equate to sales.  McDonald's has low product quality, but they still take in exponentially more than favorite little family owned burger joint.  In a real business, you can be highly profitable despite poor product quality because there are always people out there looking for cheap products.  Conversely, you can have a very high product quality and go out of business quickly due to low sales volume because most people are not going to pay for top quality.

That aside, the economics of a sports team are governed by completely irrational consumer demands.  For example, nobody cares when buying a tv if the manufacturer hasn't won any awards for the last 25+ years.  They look at the features, product quality, and price of the model they're looking at.  Also, consumers will accordingly curve quality expectations based on price.  The Bengals are 30th in the league in average ticket price.  Therefore, they should hypothetically also be 30th in product quality.  Since, they've provided a higher quality product than indicated by their price point almost yearly, the consumers should be happy with them and they should be experiencing good sales if they are a "real business.". Instead, consumers are down on them because they are expecting Mercedes-Benz quality when they're paying Kia prices.  Again, not a reasonable consumer expectation for a normal business, but we're talking sports.

They would never go out of business without revenue sharing, anyways.  They would simply move the team to a new market to increase sales and prices.

(02-19-2020, 07:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Are shamrock shakes back?

Yes in some areas

(02-19-2020, 07:15 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If you believe this, then you have not eaten a McDonald's in a very long time:

Fries - Best in the business
Soft Drinks and Sweet Tea - Best in the business due to expensive filtering equipment and only $1 for a large.
Quarter Pounder with Cheese - Cooked to order using fresh beef - awesome sandwich introduced in last 2 years.
Breakfast - McDonald's invented it and very high quality compared to competitors

McDonald's is successful because they evolve and listen to customers, they are the leader in changing to better ingredients, something the media will never give then credit for because it easier to be ignorant than to investigate the facts.

As far as the Bengals, they are the opposite of McDonald's, never change or intervent new ideas. They use the same old tired business model as you have suggested. MB never learned the definition of insanity, doing things the same way (unsuccessful ways) and getting better results.

McDonald's fries don't even hold a candle to Rally's fries.  It isn't even close.

McDonald's sweet tea is ridiculously loaded with sugar, roughly 50% more than the same size regular Coke.  They also coat their fries with sugar.  

(02-19-2020, 05:59 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Good grief, if they want people to look favorably on the Bengals, everyone but Chad Johnson seemingly needs to stop tweeting, or have someone write their tweets for them.  

Yeah, that kinda gets me too. Proof that an athlete skates through school and doesn't learn much for their pigskin. 

(02-19-2020, 07:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Are shamrock shakes back?

Yes. I heard on the radio today they actually came back today. Additionally, this is the 50th anniversary of the shamrock shake so they are also introducing a new oreo shamrock mcflurry. 

(02-19-2020, 08:06 PM)Whatever Wrote: This is ridiculously far off base.

The first issue is that a high product quality doesn't necessarily equate to sales.  McDonald's has low product quality, but they still take in exponentially more than favorite little family owned burger joint.  In a real business, you can be highly profitable despite poor product quality because there are always people out there looking for cheap products.  Conversely, you can have a very high product quality and go out of business quickly due to low sales volume because most people are not going to pay for top quality.

That aside, the economics of a sports team are governed by completely irrational consumer demands.  For example, nobody cares when buying a tv if the manufacturer hasn't won any awards for the last 25+ years.  They look at the features, product quality, and price of the model they're looking at.  Also, consumers will accordingly curve quality expectations based on price.  The Bengals are 30th in the league in average ticket price.  Therefore, they should hypothetically also be 30th in product quality.  Since, they've provided a higher quality product than indicated by their price point almost yearly, the consumers should be happy with them and they should be experiencing good sales if they are a "real business.". Instead, consumers are down on them because they are expecting Mercedes-Benz quality when they're paying Kia prices.  Again, not a reasonable consumer expectation for a normal business, but we're talking sports.

They would never go out of business without revenue sharing, anyways.  They would simply move the team to a new market to increase sales and prices.

The NFL is an oligopoly where the participants in the NFL have to be born into ownership or vetted and approved by the other owners (see Trump not being let into the NFL club when he attempted to buy the Bills).  The Bengals operate under the umbrella of the NFL where total expenditures have floors and ceilings to prevent larger market teams with deeper pockets from out-spending smaller market teams and the draft gives the worst teams the earliest picks for what should be the better players.

Yes, ticket sales and prices are a supply and demand situation, granted, but the TV deals and revenue sharing aren't doled out relative to the amount of wins your team has or the amount of fans you bring into the stadium (to my knowledge).  The way I see it (and I'm not an insider, so I'm mostly spitballing here) if the Bengals/Lions/Bills etc could be sold to clones of Robert Kraft it could be expected that total revenue of the league and the size of the pie each owner would receive would increase.

Mike Brown was born into a high-ranking position within one of the most profitable and desire oligopolies on earth.  If we were to compare the NFL to the major burger joints it would be like saying McDonalds made the most money and Crapburger made the least so the new burger that is the best tasting thing ever will only be sold at Crapburger in order to keep the burger franchises competitive.

I don't know how much of this makes sense...I'm procrastinating here.

(02-19-2020, 08:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: McDonald's fries don't even hold a candle to Rally's fries.  It isn't even close.

McDonald's sweet tea is ridiculously loaded with sugar, roughly 50% more than the same size regular Coke.  They also coat their fries with sugar.  

MCD's sells both sweet and unsweetened Iced Tea????????????? For those who want no sugar or would like to add their own. Rally's soft drinks use unfiltered tap water so go for it. That is the bad taste you get from all soft drinks other than MCD who spends thousands of dollars per year per store to insure clean filtered water is used.

(02-19-2020, 08:13 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Yes in some areas

I'm from PA and I used to get shamrock shakes every year.  In the spring of 2005 I was in grad school on Long Island and I went into a McDonalds and asked for a shamrock shake and the girl behind the counter asked what I was talking about and when I asked if they had the green shakes she looked at me as if I were from another planet.  

It was amusing when it hit me that rather than assume I was asking for some sort of discontinued or regional item they don't offer or that she never heard of she just assumed I was completely insane.  Good times.

(02-19-2020, 08:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: MCD's sells both sweet and unsweetened Iced Tea????????????? For those who want no sugar or would like to add their own. Rally's soft drinks use unfiltered tap water so go for it. That is the bad taste you get from all soft drinks other than MCD who spends thousands of dollars per year per store to insure clean filtered water is used.

Coke's Freestyle machines require the use of filtered water.  That means any fast food joint you hit with a Freestyle machine is using filtered water for drinks, including the Rally's closest to me.  Filtered water isn't some McDonald's exclusive anymore.

(02-19-2020, 02:08 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: It’s really unfair to portray the Bengals as a poorly run franchise. Lol

No, but at some point, it’s just piling on.

Love that some of these guys are speaking up. Especially a former great like Big Willie.

(02-19-2020, 08:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The NFL is an oligopoly where the participants in the NFL have to be born into ownership or vetted and approved by the other owners (see Trump not being let into the NFL club when he attempted to buy the Bills).  The Bengals operate under the umbrella of the NFL where total expenditures have floors and ceilings to prevent larger market teams with deeper pockets from out-spending smaller market teams and the draft gives the worst teams the earliest picks for what should be the better players.

Yes, ticket sales and prices are a supply and demand situation, granted, but the TV deals and revenue sharing aren't doled out relative to the amount of wins your team has or the amount of fans you bring into the stadium (to my knowledge).  The way I see it (and I'm not an insider, so I'm mostly spitballing here) if the Bengals/Lions/Bills etc could be sold to clones of Robert Kraft it could be expected that total revenue of the league and the size of the pie each owner would receive would increase.

Mike Brown was born into a high-ranking position within one of the most profitable and desire oligopolies on earth.  If we were to compare the NFL to the major burger joints it would be like saying McDonalds made the most money and Crapburger made the least so the new burger that is the best tasting thing ever will only be sold at Crapburger in order to keep the burger franchises competitive.

I don't know how much of this makes sense...I'm procrastinating here.

The issue with the Kraft analogy is that every NFL team's success is directly tied to another team's failure.  If a Kraft clone took over the Bengals and hired the next Belicheck as coach and drafted the next Tom Brady and went on a similar tear to the one the Pats have been on, the Bengals would draw a lot more money.  However, the Steelers, Ravens,and especially the Browns would experience dramatic downturns. 

Since tickets and merchandise aren't included in revenue sharing, the only area that makes a difference to the league is TV ratings and the NFL will always put the good/hot/popular teams that draw ratings in the primetime spots, so even if a team is absolutely atrocious for a long period, it doesn't really hurt them.  Plus, the popularity of fantasy football now means that all they really need is a fantasy stud in those spots to draw viewers.

If you, as a member of this board don't understand the negative feedback, you're just in complete denial. Any rational fan should get it. It's well deserved on many levels. And, it's truly just crappy bad luck on many fronts.

This is a great thread for Fred to swoop in and obliterate. I would be completely onboard with him if he did.
Andy and Marvin's Bengals were damn good, and really close several times. Just for one ridiculous reason or another, they just never had it fall together.
We sucked this year, but the media, and all of the rest seem to forget how close we really were. Barring some bad calls, play calling, and just dumb luck, we couldn't get over the hump.

Personally, I think we're still not far away, but not sure about the coaching staff?

I'm just pumped that the players seem excited about Burrow coming here and it sounds like they're optimistic about the future with him!

After a season like we just had, they're still optimistic about what Burrow can do!  That also leads me to believe that they're happy with the coaching staff and the talent we have on the team!  I know that we obviously need to add more, but it sounds like they're all happy to be here and know that we're close!

(02-19-2020, 02:50 PM)Wyche Wrote: If this whole fiasco doesn't motivate the front office to get off their ass and do something, nothing will. I have no doubts the players are pissed off, and will be on a mission, but the front office is where my concerns lie.

30 years of no playoff wins hasn't motivated them to make changes, so I think the only thing that will is Mike dying, unfortunately (not wishing that upon him, though).

(02-19-2020, 10:48 PM)Whatever Wrote: The issue with the Kraft analogy is that every NFL team's success is directly tied to another team's failure.  If a Kraft clone took over the Bengals and hired the next Belicheck as coach and drafted the next Tom Brady and went on a similar tear to the one the Pats have been on, the Bengals would draw a lot more money.  However, the Steelers, Ravens,and especially the Browns would experience dramatic downturns. 

Since tickets and merchandise aren't included in revenue sharing, the only area that makes a difference to the league is TV ratings and the NFL will always put the good/hot/popular teams that draw ratings in the primetime spots, so even if a team is absolutely atrocious for a long period, it doesn't really hurt them.  Plus, the popularity of fantasy football now means that all they really need is a fantasy stud in those spots to draw viewers.

True not every team can be a winner by the nature of the league.  Still, a team that hasn't risen above 12th place in nearly 30 years could likely use a new business plan.  You can't always win but decades of irrelevance are a whole new ball of wax. 

If we win 5 SBs the Steelers can still market the fact that they have 6.

This thread turned into a debate about Rally's and McDonald's... Awesome.