(02-19-2020, 08:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Many fans seem to gloss over bright spots like Vigil's turn for the better, when the team is losing.  It becomes too easy to just let the negative energy flow, when in fact, these guys are professionals doing all that they can to help the team win and improve their own performances.

This right here.

IF the team brings back Vigil, how much of a need is linebacker?  Pratt and Vigil played pretty good towards the end of the year.  I would still draft one, but it's not like we need to bring in 2 new ones.

(02-19-2020, 08:34 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: This right here.

IF the team brings back Vigil, how much of a need is linebacker?  Pratt and Vigil played pretty good towards the end of the year.  I would still draft one, but it's not like we need to bring in 2 new ones.

I agree to a point, but I'd still like to see a solid veteran LB from Free Agency.  That defense could really use a veteran leader at the LB position.

(02-19-2020, 08:25 PM)JSR18 Wrote: Reading this thread, it just dawned on me, that IF we could bring Whit back we could go from a hot garbage OLine to a starting OLine of:

LT- J Williams
LG- Whit
C- Hopkins
RG- Jordan/Hart
RT- F Johnson/ROOKIE

That looks pretty damn stout...

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Miller will be the starting RG until he loses the spot, but I don't see anyone on the current roster pushing him out.  If they signed Thuney, he could be released to offset the cost.  And Hart and Johnson will likely compete for the RT spot.  If someone like Bekhti falls to Rd 2 (unlikely, but he is a RT candidate, not a LT), he should be the pick. 

(02-19-2020, 08:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Many fans seem to gloss over bright spots like Vigil's turn for the better, when the team is losing.  It becomes too easy to just let the negative energy flow, when in fact, these guys are professionals doing all that they can to help the team win and improve their own performances.

No doubt, Sunset...Pratt also had a tremendous turnaround and was doing very well by the end of his rookie season.  I know Fred will show some instances of Marv starting a rookie, but this is where I always contended that starting some older players stunted the development of younger talent.  Had we just kept rolling Preston Brown out there, Pratt's development would have been delayed.  Now, I feel pretty good about Pratt, Vigil, and a draft pick as our top three LBs.  Use the FA dollars on Whit and Thuney.... 

For the Bengals to sign Whit they(MB) would have to admit hey make a mistake three years ago. They don't want to open old wounds and have to hear the "I told you so" rhetoric so I would be surprised if they go that route.

I’d love to have Whit back, but I’d put him right back at LT and slide Williams to LG. Two reasons, at this point in time Whit is the better LT due to Williams unknown ability in the league. Second, I think Williams would be a better LG than LT anyways. I’m still not convinced he has the length or foot speed to make up for the lack of length to play on the edge in the NFL. If everything works out ideally, he would have a similar path to playing LT as Whit.

(02-20-2020, 04:42 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I’d love to have Whit back, but I’d put him right back at LT and slide Williams to LG. Two reasons, at this point in time Whit is the better LT due to Williams unknown ability in the league. Second, I think Williams would be a better LG than LT anyways. I’m still not convinced he has the length or foot speed to make up for the lack of length to play on the edge in the NFL. If everything works out ideally, he would have a similar path to playing LT as Whit.

Hey yeah Whit starting at OG then sliding out to LT worked out great for him....    Williams getting to learn side by side with Whit is a bigger bonus..

Will say Whitworth probly has a career on the NFL sidelines when hes done on the field.

(02-20-2020, 10:00 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: For the Bengals to sign Whit they(MB) would have to admit hey make a mistake three years ago. They don't  want to open old wounds and have to hear the "I told you so" rhetoric so I would be surprised if they go that route.

hinesight is usually 2020... While its really murky when viewing the future...  


At the time they had to make a call...   The call they made didn't work out.   it happens to all teams.

I'd love to have Whit back for 2 more years at least. They made such a huge mistake not paying that man

(02-20-2020, 04:42 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I’d love to have Whit back, but I’d put him right back at LT and slide Williams to LG. Two reasons, at this point in time Whit is the better LT due to Williams unknown ability in the league. Second, I think Williams would be a better LG than LT anyways. I’m still not convinced he has the length or foot speed to make up for the lack of length to play on the edge in the NFL. If everything works out ideally, he would have a similar path to playing LT as Whit.

Signing Whit at 38 dosen't make sense for a rebuilding team. Williams already missed his entire rookie year we need to find out if he can play LT and be are LT of the future. 

(02-22-2020, 12:20 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Signing Whit at 38 dosen't make sense for a rebuilding team. Williams already missed his entire rookie year we need to find out if he can play LT and be are LT of the future. 

Lots of rebuilding teams sign a couple of vets to short term deals to help teach the young guys how to be better pros and we can find out plenty about Williams ability to play LT by starting him out at LG. I’m trying to remember a time the team did that with a guy that turned out to be a great LT....

(02-18-2020, 08:23 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Love Whit he's one of my favorite Bengals of all time but signing Whit makes no sense for him or the Bengals. The Bengals are or should be rebuilding I don't want a 38 year old Whit stealing snaps from a 21 year old Michael Jordan. I rather sign a guy like Tuney, Sheriff or Glasgow who are all 27 and can be part of a young core for the future. Plus I'm sure Whit at 38 wants to play for a superbowl contender not the worst team in the league.

This...

It was fun while it lasted, but he's ancient, was slippin' last year, and this is this year.

This idea reeks of nostalgia, and trying to bury the ghost of Ogbuehi.

(02-22-2020, 12:20 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Signing Whit at 38 dosen't make sense for a rebuilding team. Williams already missed his entire rookie year we need to find out if he can play LT and be are LT of the future. 

Williams should still start at LT, but what if he struggles....just ride it out like last year?  No, he could possibly move inside and Whit to LT and help the guy.  He can also mentor the rest of the young guys on the line.  

My vision would be that Whit start at LG and WIlliams at LT, but at least they have some flexibility there.  Whit makes a lot of sense for a rebuilding team as a guy like Jordan doesn't have to get forced in but can be developed over time.  

The leadership component would also be huge for such a young team.  

(02-22-2020, 10:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Williams should still start at LT, but what if he struggles....just ride it out like last year?  No, he could possibly move inside and Whit to LT and help the guy.  He can also mentor the rest of the young guys on the line.  

My vision would be that Whit start at LG and WIlliams at LT, but at least they have some flexibility there.  Whit makes a lot of sense for a rebuilding team as a guy like Jordan doesn't have to get forced in but can be developed over time.  

The leadership component would also be huge for such a young team.  

I still don’t agree but it’s all good people have different opinions which I respect. Whit always had the traits of a good tackle and only played guard first because the Bengals had two stud tackles in Willie Anderson and Levi Jones. Your playing inside a phone booth at guard or pulling. At LT your on an island versus the other teams best edge rushers the only way you get experience or are able to evaluate is by Williams playing LT. Fans will jump on Williams early if he struggles but I think we need to be patient. We all have lineman PTSD from Ogbuehi, Fisher and Price lol. Jordan is going into year 2 of a 4 year contract rather see if he can play now or sign a young veteran guard like Glasgow to compete with him and Miller. For a rebuilding team we have enough aging vets/ vets with Dunlap, Atkins, Kirkpatrick, Shawn Williams and a guy like Green probably getting tagged. I rather spend money on young talented free agents.

People keep saying how much Jordan improved. Is this really true? Those of you who have watched him, did he really improve enough to make you say he can fight for a starting position next year?

I thought Fred Johnson showed some stuff, but it was only 2 games. I think he can beat Hart out at the RT spot.

(02-22-2020, 04:10 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: People keep saying how much Jordan improved. Is this really true? Those of you who have watched him, did he really improve enough to make you say he can fight for a starting position next year?

I thought Fred Johnson showed some stuff, but it was only 2 games. I think he can beat Hart out at the RT spot.

I didn't track his individual improvement as much as the entire line started to play better down the stretch...I would still look to upgrade the position until Jordan TAKES it from someone rather than be handed the job out of necessity.

(02-19-2020, 08:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Many fans seem to gloss over bright spots like Vigil's turn for the better, when the team is losing.  It becomes too easy to just let the negative energy flow, when in fact, these guys are professionals doing all that they can to help the team win and improve their own performances.

Once a narrative gets rolling around here, it won't stop.  The fact that Vigil's poor play was mostly due to injuries and lack of quality backers around him is not taken into consideration. Once he was healthy, and Pratt started playing better, Vigil's play improved. So was that Vigil's play improving, or Vigil's circumstances improving? At the end of the season, he was a sold linebacker.

(02-22-2020, 12:39 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Lots of rebuilding teams sign a couple of vets to short term deals to help teach the young guys how to be better pros and we can find out plenty about Williams ability to play LT by starting him out at LG. I’m trying to remember a time the team did that with a guy that turned out to be a great LT....

That was done because we had a great incumbent at LT who he was not going to beat out, and Whit was too good to not be on the field.  He was better than the other candidates at LG.

If Williams is not better at LG than Jordan or Price, you can't put him in there as you are downgrading the line.

(02-23-2020, 12:50 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: That was done because we had a great incumbent at LT who he was not going to beat out, and Whit was too good to not be on the field.  He was better than the other candidates at LG.

If Williams is not better at LG than Jordan or Price, you can't put him in there as you are downgrading the line.

Right, people forget that we had a top set of Tackles in Levi Jones and Willie Anderson.  The goal is to always put the best 5 out there, and that's what they did.  

It always amused me whenever people would say that Guard was Whitworth's "natural position", when in reality he was just put there because "this guy's too good to not have on the field, right now".

(02-23-2020, 01:27 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Right, people forget that we had a top set of Tackles in Levi Jones and Willie Anderson.  The goal is to always put the best 5 out there, and that's what they did.  

It always amused me whenever people would say that Guard was Whitworth's "natural position", when in reality he was just put there because "this guy's too good to not have on the field, right now".

Paul Alexander mentioned something similar on the radio recently.  Essentially, we didn't anticipate him being on the board and took him over a bigger need because he was too good to pass up, and he was too good to sit on the bench because he was a better player out of position then the other players at that position.