I would make an effort to trade them before outright cutting them.

Can’t see anyway imaginable that they keep Glenn. My guess is they’ll wait till the last second to cut him and do everything they can to try and trade Glenn before he’s ultimately cut. I personally don’t see any team trading for Glenn at his current salary or with his fake or real concussion history. Money wise cutting Kirkpatrick makes sense I personally just don’t see the Bengals making that move even tho I would like to see it. Free agent CB’s are expensive and if they cut Dre they would have only have Jackson III in a contract year with Webb and Phillips.

(02-22-2020, 03:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm mixed on Lawson.  He's got talent, but I'd rather they let him play it out, before handing him more money.  I think he needs to show more consistency in both his production and ability to stay healthy.

He's no Chase Young, that's for sure! Ts, agree!

(02-22-2020, 04:04 PM)Synric Wrote: If you honestly believe William Jackson is going to make anything less than 12 mil a year I don't know what to say...

Why on Earth would you commit to paying him elite money now?

Rookie year - Injured, Out for season
2017 - Very good year
2018 - Average at best
2019 - Poor

If you were inclined to lock him up now then you better get a steep discount. Even if you overvalue potential, results still factor greatly in negotiations.

The guy had one good season, one bad one, one average one, and a DNP. Nothing about that calls for rushing to pay him like an elite CB.

For Christ sake, Darius Slay's salary this year is 12 and he might be the best in the game. And you WJ3 deserves top 10 money when he ranks out as an average CB? GTFO...

If he wants anything above 10 then he needs to go out and earn it this season. Paying him big now is the same mistake they made with Kirkpatrick. You don't overpay a guy without proven results, just because he's in-house.

(02-22-2020, 03:43 PM)Synric Wrote: A good boundary corner makes 12 to 14 mil a year and that's year average not cap hits.

I'm guessing 5 year 65mil. Cap hit could be close to 15 mil his first year.

Nobody is paying $65m to a CB with 2 INT in 4 years who is coming off a bad year and has only played a full season of games 25% of the time. He's also coming off shoulder surgery.

That's Top-10 CB money. A $15m cap hit would tie him for 4th most in the NFL, and only $150k behind 3rd, and $437.5k behind 2nd.

(02-22-2020, 03:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm mixed on Lawson.  He's got talent, but I'd rather they let him play it out, before handing him more money.  I think he needs to show more consistency in both his production and ability to stay healthy.

I agree with waiting another year on Lawson. Heck, he may even be the odd man out next year if they decide to extend Hubbard early. 

(02-22-2020, 03:26 PM)Synric Wrote: If the Bengals trade or release Kirkpatrick they'd have to turn around and hand it to WJ3 plus a little more most likely. 

I hope the new CB coach can get him back on track this year for him to deserve it. 2 years ago, he was certainly trending that way.

1. A normal franchise likely cuts both, no question.

2. The Bengals might keep both, cuz Bengals. I think Glenn has a much higher chance of being cut, due to everything that happened and zero dead money. Mike loathes dead money, so that $2.8 million in dead money for Kirkpatrick likely keeps him on the roster.

3. So I guess I'd kinda understand - or at least not be upset with - keeping Kirkpatrick. That said, if Glenn or Dalton are Bengals in 2020, I'll be pretty ticked.

(02-22-2020, 05:31 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. A normal franchise likely cuts both, no question.

2. The Bengals might keep both, cuz Bengals. I think Glenn has a much higher chance of being cut, due to everything that happened and zero dead money. Mike loathes dead money, so that $2.8 million in dead money for Kirkpatrick likely keeps him on the roster.

3. So I guess I'd kinda understand - or at least not be upset with - keeping Kirkpatrick. That said, if Glenn or Dalton are Bengals in 2020, I'll be pretty ticked.

I feel ya! I would prefer them all gone as well. If Glenn hadn't shown his ass, he could have played G,but his attitude sux.

Kirk probably sticks for the very reason that you mentioned. At least he seems to want to be here.

(02-22-2020, 05:39 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I feel ya! I would prefer them all gone as well. If Glenn hadn't shown his ass, he could have played G,but his attitude sux.

Kirk probably sticks for the very reason that you mentioned. At least he seems to want to be here.

Exactly.  

Not a great player by any stretch, but the dead money makes it semi-understandable and he wants to be here, unlike Glenn or likely Dalton.

(02-22-2020, 05:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Exactly.  

Not a great player by any stretch, but the dead money makes it semi-understandable and he wants to be here, unlike Glenn or likely Dalton.

That's why I think he stays.

(02-22-2020, 03:49 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Curious, where is it off?

The 1.4 was accounted for. Dre's total contract is for 11.25 with 1.4 in dead space. That's why I listed his savings at 9.85.  Glenn's is listed at 9.5 with no dead money.

9.85 + 9.5 = 19.35 in cap savings.

The numbers from over the cap may not be accurate but I think my math is on. Either that, or I'm getting old and can't keep up anymore. 

Yeah, my mistake.  However..  

(02-22-2020, 03:54 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I think Kirkpatrick's dead space is $2.8 million. Of course, I could be wrong as well. 

I believe that you are correct.  

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/dre-kirkpatrick-9827/

The cap hit this year is $2.8M, the $1.4M that Wes was referring to, is next year's dead cap hit for Dre Kirkpatrick's contract.

(02-22-2020, 03:37 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I can see an argument for keeping Glenn.

Ultimately, it entirely depends on if the relationship between the Bengals and Glenn is repaired. He did come back and play for the end of the season and played pretty well. So if he can continue that production, I think it's better to keep him than to attempt to replace him with a rookie or mid tier free agent signing.

But if he still holds a grudge against the coaches, then he's better off being cut. We don't need a negative presence in the locker room. Glenn was a fine player, but he's not worth a potential headache on the team influencing our franchise QB.


Dre, on the other hand, can go. We can give his money to Dennard or potentially extending WJIII. If we re-sign Dennard, Dre is the 4th best CB on this team and you can't, in good conscience, pay your 4th CB 11 million dollars. Cutting him saves you nearly 10 million dollars this year and next.

We got Dennard on an absolute bargain in 2019, at 4.4 million. We could easily give him a 3 year deal and still save money on what we were paying Dre.

 I could see the team dry gulching Glenn for the way he did the team last year. You can cut him whenever you want, why do him a favor and help him get a new contract elsewhere. Treat him like he is your cheating ex-wife.

(02-22-2020, 05:31 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. A normal franchise likely cuts both, no question.

2. The Bengals might keep both, cuz Bengals. I think Glenn has a much higher chance of being cut, due to everything that happened and zero dead money. Mike loathes dead money, so that $2.8 million in dead money for Kirkpatrick likely keeps him on the roster.

3. So I guess I'd kinda understand - or at least not be upset with - keeping Kirkpatrick. That said, if Glenn or Dalton are Bengals in 2020, I'll be pretty ticked.

We cut Preston Brown last season when he had just signed his 3yr deal. That gave us the same $2.8 million in dead money for the next 2 years, I think if we don't want them here they will be cut.

(02-22-2020, 07:58 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: We cut Preston Brown last season when he had just signed his 3yr deal. That gave us the same $2.8 million in dead money for the next 2 years, I think if we don't want them here they will be cut.

Are you sure about that?  Sportrac says Bengals are on the hook for $1.66M in dead over Preston Brown's contract this year.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/preston-brown-14483/

(02-22-2020, 03:37 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I can see an argument for keeping Glenn.

Ultimately, it entirely depends on if the relationship between the Bengals and Glenn is repaired. He did come back and play for the end of the season and played pretty well. So if he can continue that production, I think it's better to keep him than to attempt to replace him with a rookie or mid tier free agent signing.

But if he still holds a grudge against the coaches, then he's better off being cut. We don't need a negative presence in the locker room. Glenn was a fine player, but he's not worth a potential headache on the team influencing our franchise QB.


Dre, on the other hand, can go. We can give his money to Dennard or potentially extending WJIII. If we re-sign Dennard, Dre is the 4th best CB on this team and you can't, in good conscience, pay your 4th CB 11 million dollars. Cutting him saves you nearly 10 million dollars this year and next.

We got Dennard on an absolute bargain in 2019, at 4.4 million. We could easily give him a 3 year deal and still save money on what we were paying Dre.

What if we cut Dre tomorrow, and Dennard walks? I don't see the rush to cut him at this point. Then again, I also don't think he's overpaid. What do people think Dennard is going to sign for? I also disagree that Dre is the 4th best corner on this team. Everybody loves Jackson, and he's done little more than flash at times... Over 4 seasons.

(02-22-2020, 07:14 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  I could see the team dry gulching Glenn for the way he did the team last year. You can cut him whenever you want, why do him a favor and help him get a new contract elsewhere. Treat him like he is your cheating ex-wife.

This is a very sinister post... Put him in a dried up gulch just like the cheating ex wife?

That's heavy...

I don't see the hurry to cut them. Unless there was some kind of major come to Jesus moment with him and the team, Cordy's not a guy you need around. You never hear his name mentioned in the team's plans for the o-line in 2020, and there have been no shortage of discussions about that and specific players starting. Unless he just figures that he won't make 9 mil anywhere else, I can't imagine him being here much longer.

Dre is more complicated. I'd be a bit surprised to see him let go, but not shocked. I'd guess that they're either keeping him, or waiting to see how free agency and the draft go before cutting bait. Not the worst idea, really. Corner is thin if Dennard isn't re-signed. Maybe they draft a guy on day 2, maybe they sign someone, maybe they re-up Darqueze, probably 2 of the 3. Either way, no reason to strip the roster bare until you have the players in house.

(02-22-2020, 08:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Are you sure about that?  Sportrac says Bengals are on the hook for $1.66M in dead over Preston Brown's contract this year.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/preston-brown-14483/

It depends what you read i suppose, this states the dead money id $5.4m for brown
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/11/12/20961199/bengals-release-lb-preston-brown

But this is states its $2.5m
https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/story/_/id/28064998/bengals-release-lb-preston-brown

The point I was making was that someone mentioned that they didn't think we would cut Dre because it would leave $2 + million in dead money but that is exactly what we did last season with Preston Brown.
If Zac wants Dre cut then I think he is gone. maybe previously the HC would have been forced to keep him but not anymore because of a few million in dead money

(02-23-2020, 01:31 AM)JWW1971 Wrote: It depends what you read i suppose, this states the dead money id $5.4m for brown
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/11/12/20961199/bengals-release-lb-preston-brown

But this is states its $2.5m
https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/story/_/id/28064998/bengals-release-lb-preston-brown

The point I was making was that someone mentioned that they didn't think we would cut Dre because it would leave $2 + million in dead money but that is exactly what we did last season with Preston Brown.
If Zac wants Dre cut then I think he is gone. maybe previously the HC would have been forced to keep him but not anymore because of a few million in dead money

Well I did say "likely" keeps Dre on the roster...not "definitely" keeps Dre on the roster.

Regardless of one example, I do think the dead money is a factor that Mike Brown teams will consider.

That said, maybe we can hope the FO looks at the fact that Dre missed 10 games last year and has a grand total of 1 INT in his last 33 starts.

Saying Dre hasn't lived up to his contract is a massive understatement.