(02-22-2020, 03:36 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I'd imagine we'll find out within the next few weeks. I looked up that Pacman had his option declined on 3/9/18. Burflict was released just after the start of free agency last year 3/18/19. They could be trying to trade the players or wait until they need the cap space.

Personally, I would take whatever they can get in a trade or cut them.

This.  As much as we want that cap space and don't really see a value for the player, Glenn and Kirkpatrick DO have value on the open market.  Glenn is a solid LT and Dre was a first round pick that has shown some ability.  They shouldn't simply be cut...there should be someone out there that wants them and is willing to part with at LEAST a third round pick for either of them.  You don't usually get a starting caliber player at LT or CB in the 3rd round.  

My dream would be a 2nd rounder for Dalton, and a 3rd rounder for Dre and Glenn.  I don't think the Bengals will let Dre, especially, go for less than that...other teams would have to sign him to a new deal and I think the "rent-a-player" design will be attractive to a younger team trying to build for the future.  Darius Phillips has made him expendable or we wouldn't even be having this discussion.  

(02-23-2020, 01:31 AM)JWW1971 Wrote: It depends what you read i suppose, this states the dead money id $5.4m for brown
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/11/12/20961199/bengals-release-lb-preston-brown

But this is states its $2.5m
https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/story/_/id/28064998/bengals-release-lb-preston-brown

The point I was making was that someone mentioned that they didn't think we would cut Dre because it would leave $2 + million in dead money but that is exactly what we did last season with Preston Brown.
If Zac wants Dre cut then I think he is gone. maybe previously the HC would have been forced to keep him but not anymore because of a few million in dead money

I think the difference is that both of the items that you posted were from before Brown was signed, and then later released by the Raiders, whereas Sportrac makes it their job to keep up with sports salaries and contracts.

(02-23-2020, 10:40 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This.  As much as we want that cap space and don't really see a value for the player, Glenn and Kirkpatrick DO have value on the open market.  Glenn is a solid LT and Dre was a first round pick that has shown some ability.  They shouldn't simply be cut...there should be someone out there that wants them and is willing to part with at LEAST a third round pick for either of them.  You don't usually get a starting caliber player at LT or CB in the 3rd round.  

My dream would be a 2nd rounder for Dalton, and a 3rd rounder for Dre and Glenn.  I don't think the Bengals will let Dre, especially, go for less than that...other teams would have to sign him to a new deal and I think the "rent-a-player" design will be attractive to a younger team trying to build for the future.  Darius Phillips has made him expendable or we wouldn't even be having this discussion.  

I agree with you a lot Racer but I'm not so sure either of these two will pull a 3rd rounder ? Glenn maybe but his antics on his past two teams I'm sure have put a dent in his value.

Dre, umm I just don't know ? He hasn't played a full season in 3 years. How many games was he in last season 4 or 5 ? He has like 1 interception in last three years. His PFF rating has been in low 60's and we all know his open field tackling leaves a lot to be desired !

If they get offered a 3rd I'd jump all over it.

Hoping for 3rd round compensation for either of these turds is like hoping you can get 15k for your 2008 Chevy Cavalier w/ 130k miles.

Dre has zero trade value. None. Zilch. Nada. Maybe Glenn could fetch a late round pick if he's willing to sign a new deal for like 5mil. Even that is highly unlikely.

Both are injury prone over the hill , over paid guys just cut them already. They have zero value.

I would see what dre and Glenn could fetch on the trade market, if anything. I would look to sign 2 of the players below:

James bradberry. This may be a reach as I think he wants to play for Rivera again if the panthers don't resign him.

Graham Glasgow. I think scherff, or just about any ot on the market will be too rich for ebenezer. I would look long and hard at the philly tackle, name way too long to remember to spell. Has experience at both tackle spots. He will have a strong market though.

One of these lbs
Littleton
Schobert
Martinez
Kwiatkoski (sp.) bears
De'vondra campbell, Falcons

Get Glasgow and a lb. cut dre and Cordy if you can't trade them. You would still have most, if not all of your original cap space to extend your own players. And this would open the draft some

What's the deadline to cut them by?

I think the main reason you cut them early is as a favor to give them a better chance of getting a good deal elsewhere. There's no reason to try that with Glenn. Maybe with Kirkpatrick but it would seem to be preferable to wait until his replacement is in the building.

(02-23-2020, 02:23 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I agree with you a lot Racer but I'm not so sure either of these two will pull a 3rd rounder ? Glenn maybe but his antics on his past two teams I'm sure have put a dent in his value.

Dre, umm I just don't know ? He hasn't played a full season in 3 years. How many games was he in last season 4 or 5 ? He has like 1 interception in last three years. His PFF rating has been in low 60's and we all know his open field tackling leaves a lot to be desired !

If they get offered a 3rd I'd jump all over it.

There are a number of things that could happen to Dre:

-He gets released:  Probably least likely as depth would be paper thin and he was a first round draft pick

-He gets traded:  Possibly a team that has a real need at CB...Maybe a team that has an injury early on in OTAs?  He could end up traded for a pick in 2021 in that case.  He could be a player for player trade, but that would be rare.

-He stays and is asked to renegotiate a contract.  His agent may not like this one, but with a much less expensive Kendall Fuller coming off a solid season at CB, I think he might find his options elsewhere limited.  

Glenn is a much more valuable commodity as a starting LT.  I have no idea what the rest of the league would see as his value, but I keep coming back to the fact that you rarely get a starting caliber LT or CB in the 3rd round of the draft....that is, a day 1 starter.  

Even if they simply end up cut, their salaries combined could pay for contracts for guys like Thuney and Fuller.  I would much rather have those two.  Both are younger and are simply better players.  

There is no need to move them right now as free agency is still a month away, and frankly it's not like we are up against the cap. A trade can't be finalized until the new league year starts and most deals get made this week at the combine. Glenn has value in the trade market as a serviceable Tackle in a league that is desperate for good O line play. I think an early day 3 pick could be on the table for him. Kirkpatrick isn't as bad as people here like to make him out to be, he can be a number 2 in this league but the issue really is the contract is too high. I don't think he has much of a trade market however I don't think we would move on from him until we either A. resign Dennard, or B. replace him in the draft.

The other thing that is being reported is a lot of teams are holding off cutting/moving guys until after the new CBA because there may be cap ramifications that are different than usual with it.

(02-22-2020, 03:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: A lot of teams have started clearing cap space ahead of free agency. I seem to see a new list of guys cut everyday.

These two are still here. The questions I have for you all is, do they get cut prior to the start of free agency? Do they get cut at all? If so, when? Do you keep one over the other, do you keep both?

Basically, I am asking what are your thoughts on these two, and what do you think actually happens?

My thoughts? Keeping Glenn would almost be unforgiveable. I won't go into a lot of the reasons, as they've been discussed ad nauseam. But simply put, this guy has no business playing here next year.

And Dre? He's a clear choice for a cap casualty as I've ever seen. The guy hasn't played a full season in 5 years. Has never started 16 games. The last year (2017) he even played enough to qualify for a PFF rank he ranked #92. He's been overpaid, he's injury prone, he's aging, he has no long term future here and he can be cut without much dead money. Translation = See ya later!

Here's the tale of the tape on these two:

Cordy Glenn

Age - 30
Cap Savings - 9.5 mil
Dead Money - 0
Notes - Faked injury, almost fought coach, screamed at Taylor, screamed "just trade me", missed 10 games, never played a full season here, kinda sucks...

Dre Kirkpatrick

Age - 30
Cap Savings - 9.85 mil
Dead Money - 1.4 mil
Notes - See above...makes almost double what he should, injury prone, 1 INT in last 3 years, not good, huge douchebag...

So what do you think JN? Any chance we add this 19.35 mil to our FA budget and cut bait early? I really hope so, but I can't understand why it hasn't already happened. I'm getting nervous we hold on to both for awhile, to avoid spending in FA. I sure hope I'm wrong!!!!

Would you or I think they should (have) cut/traded them before FA so they can have more room to get other FAs? Probably.

The Bengals are more likely to hold on to these guys until they see how the draft plays out. They'll only get rid of these guys if they feel they have adequate replacements.
Given the state of the OL and CBs, I don't think you can say they have adequate replacements in house.
Before you say, "Uh Darqueze Dennard hello?" Dennard is not technically a Bengal so he'd need to be re-signed before ever considering to move DK.

(02-22-2020, 03:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: A lot of teams have started clearing cap space ahead of free agency. I seem to see a new list of guys cut everyday.

These two are still here. The questions I have for you all is, do they get cut prior to the start of free agency? Do they get cut at all? If so, when? Do you keep one over the other, do you keep both?

Basically, I am asking what are your thoughts on these two, and what do you think actually happens?

My thoughts? Keeping Glenn would almost be unforgiveable. I won't go into a lot of the reasons, as they've been discussed ad nauseam. But simply put, this guy has no business playing here next year.

And Dre? He's a clear choice for a cap casualty as I've ever seen. The guy hasn't played a full season in 5 years. Has never started 16 games. The last year (2017) he even played enough to qualify for a PFF rank he ranked #92. He's been overpaid, he's injury prone, he's aging, he has no long term future here and he can be cut without much dead money. Translation = See ya later!

Here's the tale of the tape on these two:

Cordy Glenn

Age - 30
Cap Savings - 9.5 mil
Dead Money - 0
Notes - Faked injury, almost fought coach, screamed at Taylor, screamed "just trade me", missed 10 games, never played a full season here, kinda sucks...

Dre Kirkpatrick

Age - 30
Cap Savings - 9.85 mil
Dead Money - 1.4 mil
Notes - See above...makes almost double what he should, injury prone, 1 INT in last 3 years, not good, huge douchebag...

So what do you think JN? Any chance we add this 19.35 mil to our FA budget and cut bait early? I really hope so, but I can't understand why it hasn't already happened. I'm getting nervous we hold on to both for awhile, to avoid spending in FA. I sure hope I'm wrong!!!!

As you have probably already heard me say, I would either cut them or even better look for some mid round picks for these
guys. No way Glenn should be back with his attitude and his soft run blocking with Jonah coming back and us needing to free
up some dough before FA. We can bring in a true Guard like Thuney, Glasgow, Scherff or Fieler that would be much better.

Kirkpatrick is a bad tackler on top of what you say here. 

We should look to re-sign Billings and Dennard with these guy's salaries.

(02-24-2020, 03:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Would you or I think they should (have) cut/traded them before FA so they can have more room to get other FAs? Probably.

The Bengals are more likely to hold on to these guys until they see how the draft plays out. They'll only get rid of these guys if they feel they have adequate replacements.
Given the state of the OL and CBs, I don't think you can say they have adequate replacements in house.
Before you say, "Uh Darqueze Dennard hello?" Dennard is not technically a Bengal so he'd need to be re-signed before ever considering to move DK.

This is true, but they also take snaps away from players who may perform better. I’ve seen a lot of people “high” on Fred Johnson, but you wouldn’t of found out what he does without an opportunity. We know what these guys are, which is a locker room cancer and underperforming corner. If they were a team contending I can probably see this as a wise move, but seeing as we’re probably a year or two away let’s see what we got with younger guys.

(02-24-2020, 08:00 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This is true, but they also take snaps away from players who may perform better. I’ve seen a lot of people “high” on Fred Johnson, but you wouldn’t of found out what he does without an opportunity. We know what these guys are, which is a locker room cancer and underperforming corner. If they were a team contending I can probably see this as a wise move, but seeing as we’re probably a year or two away let’s see what we got with younger guys.

We could always hang onto them until we get their replacements in FA...

Then let them go.

(02-24-2020, 08:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We could always hang onto them until we get their replacements in FA...

Then let them go.

Right I agree with that part just saying that in our situation not sure it makes a huge difference. I don’t think Dre or Glenn are the difference in this team being a contender. Is it nice to have them? Sure. But we’re a 2-14 team let’s see who else can play

(02-22-2020, 04:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If they pay WJ 5 years 65 mil then that's the most ridiculous contract in the history of the NFL. What the hell are you smoking? 

FYI: His current market value on Sportrac is 6.3 mil.

Hahahahaha Oh he will make more than that, most likely close to double. They aren't always right, his value is $10/year easily.

(02-24-2020, 08:09 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Right I agree with that part just saying that in our situation not sure it makes a huge difference. I don’t think Dre or Glenn are the difference in this team being a contender. Is it nice to have them? Sure. But we’re a 2-14 team let’s see who else can play

Yeah, I would do the same, all it would do is free up like 19 mil.

This FO seems to always like to make sure they ensure themselves from improving the team.

(02-24-2020, 08:00 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This is true, but they also take snaps away from players who may perform better. I’ve seen a lot of people “high” on Fred Johnson, but you wouldn’t of found out what he does without an opportunity. We know what these guys are, which is a locker room cancer and underperforming corner. If they were a team contending I can probably see this as a wise move, but seeing as we’re probably a year or two away let’s see what we got with younger guys.

You could end up with a Ryan Finley situation where the player comes in absolutely horrid, therefore begging the team to go back to their incumbent starter.

Why are they both still on the team. Fml

(02-22-2020, 03:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: A lot of teams have started clearing cap space ahead of free agency. I seem to see a new list of guys cut everyday.

These two are still here. The questions I have for you all is, do they get cut prior to the start of free agency? Do they get cut at all? If so, when? Do you keep one over the other, do you keep both?

Basically, I am asking what are your thoughts on these two, and what do you think actually happens?

My thoughts? Keeping Glenn would almost be unforgiveable. I won't go into a lot of the reasons, as they've been discussed ad nauseam. But simply put, this guy has no business playing here next year.

And Dre? He's a clear choice for a cap casualty as I've ever seen. The guy hasn't played a full season in 5 years. Has never started 16 games. The last year (2017) he even played enough to qualify for a PFF rank he ranked #92. He's been overpaid, he's injury prone, he's aging, he has no long term future here and he can be cut without much dead money. Translation = See ya later!

Here's the tale of the tape on these two:

Cordy Glenn

Age - 30
Cap Savings - 9.5 mil
Dead Money - 0
Notes - Faked injury, almost fought coach, screamed at Taylor, screamed "just trade me", missed 10 games, never played a full season here, kinda sucks...

Dre Kirkpatrick

Age - 30
Cap Savings - 9.85 mil
Dead Money - 1.4 mil
Notes - See above...makes almost double what he should, injury prone, 1 INT in last 3 years, not good, huge douchebag...

So what do you think JN? Any chance we add this 19.35 mil to our FA budget and cut bait early? I really hope so, but I can't understand why it hasn't already happened. I'm getting nervous we hold on to both for awhile, to avoid spending in FA. I sure hope I'm wrong!!!!

When is the cut date where they have to be cut to avoid paying extra dead money?

If there isn't a hard date.  Not much of a reason to cut them till you know you can get a replacement (that's an improvement)

Fans:  We have to bring in more high priced players.  That is the simple answer to winning more games.

Bengals:  We just traded for the 8th highest paid tackle in the league, Cordy Glenn.

Fans 2 years later:  We need to get rid of Glenn and bring in more high priced players.  That is the simple answer to winning more games.

Glenn seems to have an attitude problem, but when healthy and playing he is not grossly overpaid.  Dre Kirkpatrick will make $9.4 million this year and would get that much or more if he was a current free agent.

If you release both of those guys you are not going to save much, if any, when replacing them in free agency.