We have seen the ceiling with Dre. He’s so so. Dennard although has battled injury look like a much more promising prospect than Dre ever had when healthy. If they can keep Dennard healthy he will prove he’s a much better corner than Dre. Dre really is not a good NFL corner his technique is horrible tackling is horrible bad ball skills and can’t catch the ball and pass interference machine. Anyone tells u Kirkpatrick is better than Dennard is probably about as good of a scout as Stevie wonder.

(03-02-2020, 03:13 PM)lone bengal Wrote: We have so many holes that’s why we need to use free agency to open up the draft. We could address O-line and linebacker in free agency , go CB at 33 and pick a WR in round 3 in a draft that’s stacked at the position. I fine bringing Dennard back at the right price just not overpaying for a  28 year old CB 3 that only plays inside.

:andy:

(03-02-2020, 01:39 PM)Whatever Wrote: Dre was only credited with 2 penalties for 30 yards in 2019, so I don't agree that he's a penalty machine.

Another point is that Dennard is best in the slot and Dre is a boundary CB. It's really more Dennard vs Webb, and I say kick Webb to the curb and let Dre compete with Phillips and a possible draft pick outside.

These are my thoughts on Dennard vs Dre. Cannot compare them cause they play at different spots, what you can compare
is the tackling and covering, both of which Dennard is better at. I would trade Kirkpatrick and Draft a Corner relatively high 
as long as we get a LB and a Guard in FA or a Guard at the top of the 3rd in this deep Guard class.

Keep Dennard as our Slot Corner, he was like the best Slot Corner in the NFL last season. I know he has been injured in the
past but you need to keep your best players if you can.

(03-02-2020, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You think Webb is better than both of them?

Oh god no, he should go too. of any of the three I would keep Dennard but he can't seem to play the full season

CB is an expensive position to address in free agency. Need to draft a replacement, but we are not deep enough to be releasing Dre.

(03-02-2020, 05:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: CB is an expensive position to address in free agency. Need to draft a replacement, but we are not deep enough to be releasing Dre.

Yes we are. now quiet. Dre is not good and has a shit ton of money which he is not worth. You’re never too deep to cut an overpaid bad player. Re sign Dennar bring in fuller problem solved.

(03-02-2020, 01:26 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Not me. Can you think of a time when they had a dead cap over 6 million? They're already at 2.9, cutting Dre would put them at 6.

     Why don't the Bengals renegotiate contracts on aging players. When the contract doesn't match the talent most teams ask players to take a cut in pay. He's not getting 10 mil from any other team so why not try to keep him at lower salary?

(03-02-2020, 06:34 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:      Why don't the Bengals renegotiate contracts on aging players. When the contract doesn't match the talent most teams ask players to take a cut in pay. He's not getting 10 mil from any other team so why not try to keep him at lower salary?

Well right now its a hard spot to be in... Who takes a paycut to stay on a 2-14 team?

(03-02-2020, 06:34 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Yes we are. now quiet.  Dre is not good and has a shit ton of money which he is not worth.  You’re never too deep to cut an overpaid bad player.  Re sign Dennar bring in fuller problem solved.

and how much would Dennard/Fuller cost compare to Dre?  And Dennard doesn't play the outside.

(03-02-2020, 06:34 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:      Why don't the Bengals renegotiate contracts on aging players. When the contract doesn't match the talent most teams ask players to take a cut in pay. He's not getting 10 mil from any other team so why not try to keep him at lower salary?

Because why the hell would he do it? No sane person would take less money when they can have more.

(03-02-2020, 06:37 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well right now its a hard spot to be in... Who takes a paycut to stay on a 2-14 team?

   What team pays 20 mil over the next two years for Dre freaking Kirkpatrick? Cutting him this year will save 18 mil on the cap over those two years.

(03-02-2020, 06:34 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Yes we are. now quiet. Dre is not good and has a shit ton of money which he is not worth. You’re never too deep to cut an overpaid bad player. Re sign Dennar bring in fuller problem solved.

No we aren't.

You've had a hate crusade for Dre for years, sit down, shut up and deal with the fact he will be on this team.

Why must people be so bloody antagonistic and hateful?

Folks, I hate to say this, but you know that I'm going to say it anyway..

For the experience he brings, Dre's contract isn't as bad as it seems at face value. Just wait til the opening week of free agency deals start being announced, you'll be every bit as shocked this year, as you were last year when CJ Mosley was signed for 5/85, Kwon Alexander was signed for 4/54, and Jordan Hicks snagged 4/36. The Bengals aren't going to find anyone better on the market for less, just like they weren't going to find an affordable "stud LB" in free agency, last year. Compound the premium price that competent CBs command in the NFL, along with the very real fact that other positions are in more dire need of that 2nd round pick this year, it only makes sense for the Bengals to keep Dre around, and let him play out the final year of his current contract.

(03-02-2020, 07:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Folks, I hate to say this, but you know that I'm going to say it anyway..  

For the experience he brings, Dre's contract isn't as bad as it seems at face value.  Just wait til the opening week of free agency deals start being announced, you'll be every bit as shocked this year, as you were last year when CJ Mosley was signed for 5/85, Kwon Alexander was signed for 4/54, and Jordan Hicks snagged 4/36.  The Bengals aren't going to find anyone better on the market for less, just like they weren't going to find an affordable "stud LB" in free agency, last year.  Compound the premium price that competent CBs command in the NFL, along with the very real fact that other positions are in more dire need of that 2nd round pick this year, it only makes sense for the Bengals to keep Dre around, and let him play out the final year of his current contract.

I would still rather use that money on Dennard and Will Jax and Draft a Corner. I like Darius Phillips, he played decent last season
and is a ballhawk. It is true that starting CB's get paid a lot of money but I would rather use that money on Corners with upside.

We might be able to even get a pick out of Dre, who knows? Dre isn't worth the amount of money he is being paid IMO.

(03-02-2020, 07:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I would still rather use that money on Dennard and Will Jax and Draft a Corner. I like Darius Phillips, he played decent last season
and is a ballhawk. It is true that starting CB's get paid a lot of money but I would rather use that money on Corners with upside.

We might be able to even get a pick out of Dre, who knows? Dre isn't worth the amount of money he is being paid IMO.

I see:

- Dre
- WJax
- Dennard
- Phillips
- Draft Pick
- Tony McRae (mainly for teams)

Or, Dennard is not retained and they double dip.

The increase in the Salary cap alone will pay for a new CB. I'd rather go that route. Keep Dennard and sign a top guy and cut Dre or let him finish out.

(03-02-2020, 12:23 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Lots of people on this board know way more about football then me.

But as a long time fan, I have a question.

Isn't Dennard a much better player than Dre?

There is no way I would let Dennard walk because I had to keep Dre.

To me Dre can't tackle and has been a PI machine since the first year he was drafted.

And I recall scouting reports when he played for Bama predicted he would get a lot of PI calls in the pros.

Thoughts from better observers than me?

I think Dennard is much better and plays a spot that I think is more important and more difficult, the slot corner.  I think Dennard needs to be re-signed.  On a team with a pass rush, I think he is outstanding.  Here he is only ranked very good, but that is still better than EVERY secondary player we have.  Dre plays outside and Philllips showed he could play better in his first shot at starting.  

(03-02-2020, 02:49 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Some of you saying you want to get rid of Dennard...is this what you really want to get rid of?

Of the slot corners that played 50%+ of their snaps inside last season, Dennard ranked FIRST in catches allowed (14), yards (134), passer rating (68.4), yards per snap (0.57), snaps per target (9.0) and snaps per reception (16.8).

That's every category PFF keeps data on. Every one.

As for his injury history, they put him on the PUP list to start last season meaning he couldn't play or practice for the first 6 weeks of the season. He wouldn't have missed 6 games had they not PUP'd him. The three seasons prior to that he played in 13, 16, and 15 games.

Good stuff...He got a bad rap because of his start (LIKE EVERY DAMN FIRST ROUND PICK THEY HAVE SEEMINGLY HAD).  He has been a very good player on a poor defense.  Shore up the LB corps, get a ball hawking, play-making safety in there with some wheels and this defense will improve tremendously.  

(03-02-2020, 07:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I would still rather use that money on Dennard and Will Jax and Draft a Corner. I like Darius Phillips, he played decent last season
and is a ballhawk. It is true that starting CB's get paid a lot of money but I would rather use that money on Corners with upside.

We might be able to even get a pick out of Dre, who knows? Dre isn't worth the amount of money he is being paid IMO.

Sure, as fans we would love them to revamp the entire team, in one fell swoop.  In reality, the Bengals just don't operate that way.  We might have a better shot at gauging which way the draft will go, once we see what they do in free agency.  But, think of it like this, as far as the draft goes.  We'ed like to see them get a stud DL as Carlos and Geno ain't getting any younger, we'ed like to see them get a day 1 starter quality LB, and we'ed also like to see them get a guy who's capable of playing now, or in a year or less at CB.

The way I see it, pick any two, because it's going to be tough to find all three of those in rounds 2-4 (even picking at the top of the round) with the number of draft picks that the Bengals currently have.  Assuming that number stays the same, if you want a LB, you hope that one of the good ones falls to 33.  At 65, you're probably going to have to choose between that DL and CB, depending upon how the board plays out.

If it's CB that you want at 65, I could see a few quality guys there.  Players like Bryce Hall of Va. and Jaylon Johnson of Utah, both boundary corners in body style with a ton of upside, and just minimal negative qualities.  I would add a guy like AJ Terrell, but his NFL comparison is Dre Kirkpatrick..

Dennard finally showed last year so we need to keep him. IMHO And add some talent in the draft.