(03-05-2020, 04:45 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: He played in 14 games in 2017. Think you got the wrong year.

Yes, wrong year.  But, good grief, this guy has had way more injuries that I can remember hearing about..

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/dre-kirkpatrick/5078

(03-05-2020, 04:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, wrong year.  But, good grief, this guy has had way more injuries that I can remember hearing about..

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/dre-kirkpatrick/5078

It's because the injuries early in his career were nullified by the presence of Leon Hall, Terrance Newman, and Pacman. He was a special teams gunner a couple years into his career, and he was pretty damn good at it. He wasn't gonna see the field anyway.

I do remember that knee injury and the setback his rookie year. There was a lot of anticipation to see him play. Then he had that pick 6 and another int during that crucial MNF win over Denver in 2014... You know; the Jeremy Hill game?

whats even the debate. if you can shed the contract and bring in a guy a bit more expensive who can offer you more.

(03-05-2020, 06:28 PM)Okeana Wrote: whats even the debate.  if you can shed the contract and bring in a guy a bit more expensive who can offer you more.

Except, you're not shedding the entire contract with Kirkpatrick.  If they cut him or trade him, the Bengals still eat $2.8M in dead cap.  So, say you bring in a guy that commands $13M in salary, you kinda have to think of that guy actually costing you $15.8M, that first year that he's on board.

Does that make any sense?

(03-05-2020, 04:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What's to "turn around"?  All he needs to do is get healthy, and play to his normal level.  Last season was an anomaly, compared to what we typically see from him.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KirkDr00.htm

I think what some are doing, is just writing him off as a bad player, because he was injured and only played in 5 games last season, and wan't very strong in those games.  In light of AJ Green being out for the entire season, and Cordy Glenn with the very questionable, prolonged concussion protocol, and Jonah Williams not playing a down all season long;  It becomes very easy to allow emotion to take over, and simply write guys off as bad players, or past their prime, because their situations let you down, when you were counting on them to come through for your viewing enjoyment.

Throwing his hands up in the air with his back to the QB with no clue where the ball is? That is a flag by todays game rules the only reason he gets away with it is because his hands rarely touch the ball.

(03-05-2020, 09:21 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Do you think that this is the year for Darius Phillips to step up and assume a greater role?  I get that in his two seasons, he hasn't been on the field extensively.  But, in the limited amount of snaps he has played, he's shown some pretty good football instincts and been quite productive.

I also get that the Bengals put a ton of stock into 1st round CBs.  However the last 3 that they have taken in the 1st round, just haven't lived up to the hype.  Kirkpatrick, Dennard and Jackson just aren't even close to being as productive as Joseph and Hall were.  But, when you look around NFL rosters, I see productive Corners coming from all rounds of the draft.  I'm not ready to lump our corners in with other draft flops like Fisher and Ogbuehi, but that's a lot of 1st round picks that didn't turn into perennial stars.  Either the Bengals should reevaluate their approach to the draft, or take a hard look at their talent elvaluators.

Agreed.  Playing these guys in zone was a waste of 1st round picks...Play them in man, as that is what they are best at anyways.  It is so odd how good and how poor the secondary can look from time to time, but of late it has mostly been poor.  

I like Phillips and certainly believe it is his time, but I still shudder to think what happens if just one of Dennard, WJIII, or Phillips would go down. 

Perhaps the best course of action is have Dre renegotiate, but I'm not sure he would.  

(03-04-2020, 12:38 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I’m telling you , the same Homer’s that predicted 11-5 last year think Dre is great.  You can’t convince them otherwise

So, as one of those people that predicted 11-5 (or maybe I was 10-6), it makes us a homer that we saw potential in a team before they lost their LT and WR1 before the season started?  

(03-06-2020, 08:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: So, as one of those people that predicted 11-5 (or maybe I was 10-6), it makes us a homer that we saw potential in a team before they lost their LT and WR1 before the season started?  

Exactly, nobody counted on those injuries, along with the sudden retirement of Clint Boling, and the mysterious ongoing saga that was the Cordy Glenn concussion protocol.  Heck, had this team been able to field the entire compliment of players that we counted on, they likely would have ended up with a winning season.  I know that being able to hold the ball and sustain drives alone would have saved miles and miles of wear and tear on our defense.

(03-04-2020, 08:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yea NFL.com offers NFL game pass which essentially lets you watch every play from the all 22 angle above which you can see everyone on the field. It’s what the teams use for scouting and tape break down.

It is awesome.  There used to be a similar service called "coaches cut", but this is far superior.  

(03-04-2020, 08:48 PM)Au165 Wrote: It’s only available through a computer online I think the next day and then all games are archived to view whenever. I had it two seasons ago, didn’t do it last year because...well they were really bad and I didn’t watch many games period haha.

Same...stopped over-analysing when I let my season tickets go...

(03-06-2020, 09:04 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Exactly, nobody counted on those injuries, along with the sudden retirement of Clint Boling, and the mysterious ongoing saga that was the Cordy Glenn concussion protocol.  Heck, had this team been able to field the entire compliment of players that we counted on, they likely would have ended up with a winning season.  I know that being able to hold the ball and sustain drives alone would have saved miles and miles of wear and tear on our defense.

Homer  

(03-04-2020, 05:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: While this goes to support my premise that Kirkpatrick won't net much in trade, it also supports the idea of just flat out cutting him in favor of allowing Darius Phillips to start, and drafting a new CB.  The way this class breaks down, in my opinion, there should be solid CBs available in the 3rd round.  Just as this draft is loaded with WR talent, it's also got plenty of DBs who have been covering these same receivers.

Edit: What's most shocking about the PFF numbers posted, is that Dre is a former 1st round selection that was playing in his 8th season. He should be rocking a score in the 80s, with that pedigree.

There's going to be talent available in round 3 but if you're looking at outside corner it's probably going to be more talent for 2021 rather than 2020. That's ok if you're not looking to compete until 2021 but if you are looking to make a play-off run in 2020 you're going to want more reliable depth and as disappointing as Dre has been there's a significant drop off from him to BW Webb.

(03-05-2020, 04:31 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: As of right now he's the 16th highest paid cornerback in the league.

He's also only the 3rd or 4th best cornerback on the league's worst team and a terrible defense.

No Pro Bowls ever. 1 INT over last 3 years. One of the worst tacklers in the entire league. Missed time every year since 2015. Aging out of position.

How is he not overpaid? His contract says he should be good enough to be the #1 CB for 16 teams. Do you think he lives up to that?

God knows Fred can argue for himself, but to save the board from more petty bickering he didn't say he wasn't overpaid. He said he wasn't grosslyoverpaid.

(03-05-2020, 07:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Except, you're not shedding the entire contract with Kirkpatrick.  If they cut him or trade him, the Bengals still eat $2.8M in dead cap.  So, say you bring in a guy that commands $13M in salary, you kinda have to think of that guy actually costing you $15.8M, that first year that he's on board.

Does that make any sense?

And you are probably also going to have to overpay to bring in that free agent in because unless they are a local guy if they have two similar offers they're going to go with the other one.

(03-03-2020, 09:59 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I have a feeling both guys will be around training camp.

I have a feeling Dre won’t be here by draft time. Meow

(03-05-2020, 06:28 PM)Okeana Wrote: whats even the debate.  if you can shed the contract and bring in a guy a bit more expensive who can offer you more.

Or bring in a guy of the same quality for less, you even have to consider that.

(03-05-2020, 04:31 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: As of right now he's the 16th highest paid cornerback in the league.

He's also only the 3rd or 4th best cornerback on the league's worst team and a terrible defense.

No Pro Bowls ever. 1 INT over last 3 years. One of the worst tacklers in the entire league. Missed time every year since 2015. Aging out of position.

How is he not overpaid? His contract says he should be good enough to be the #1 CB for 16 teams. Do you think he lives up to that?

His guaranteed money is at 12 mil, which is not that bad of a deal at the time. When looking at that portion of his contract compared to others, he ranks around 30th. The contract is bad , but at the time they signed him and guaranteed money given, it is not terrible.