Yeah! The way Mike Brown masterminded the loss to Miami was pure genius. Having us comeback late just to lose by a field goal to show he was not tanking for Burrow. Wow

(03-04-2020, 11:20 AM)shanebo Wrote: Was thinking about this last night ... what if Mike Brown looked ahead, saw there would be a potential franchise QB at the top of the draft, and decided to purposely tank last season?  (OK, so he thought it would be Tua, but all the best plans have a little luck, no?)

Think about it.  Marvin would never go for it, so he's fired.  Hire a rook with no coaching experience whatsoever.  His job is to look incompetent and overwhelmed.  Check.  Spend draft picks on injured or developmental players who are at least a year away from helping out.  Check.  Then we need some injuries in key spots.  First rounder/LT goes down, out for season.  Star WR goes down, out for season.
Backup LT has mysterious concussion, out for season.  Talented backup WR looks awesome first game?  Shut him down.  Then we need some strategic substitutions.  Sit vets here and there, start rookies in their places.  Cut some vets, don't bother to replace them.  Other vets look mysteriously off.  Gritty veteran QB won't play ball?  Sit him.  Let's see how the noodle-armed backup does against two division rivals.  Limit the star RB's touches.  What?  It's getting a little too much?  People are saying we're historically bad?  OK, let's start implementing the real system, win a few games ...

Now it's 2020.  We get our franchise QB.  Suddenly everybody's healthy again.  Zac can actually coach and evaluate talent.  We have a great draft.  Pick up some FAs.  System looks solid.  We win some games.  Make playoffs, win playoff game, and then ....?

OK, probably not.  In the words of the great Chris Farley, "But you could imagine what it'd be like ... good, great, grand, wonderful, NO YELLING ON THE BUS!"

While I don't think it was ALL intentional, or even most of it....I am very glad it happened as it did.  About time the universe threw the Bengals a bone and in this case, I am hoping we finally have our QB that can bring home a Lombardi.  

I am not saying it will be happening this year, but I am beyond excited to watch it this season. 

(03-05-2020, 12:39 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think we all wanted to wonder if last season was a tank job, but many refuse to entertain the thought thanks to our past incompetence...which is understandable. That said, I wouldn't doubt if they knew 2019 would be a "throw away" type of year. The roster needed a lot of re-tooling. The defense made a rather drastic change in scheme. AJ Green was hurt.

After our rough start, I wouldn't doubt if Taylor and co made some decisions that they wouldn't have made normally. Such as starting Finley for 3 games, or maybe keeping AJ off the field. Hard telling though. Kinda funny that we started playing better as it became clear we'd secure the top pick.

Fwiw, no way do I believe Mike planned this far in advance.

I believe the same.

(03-05-2020, 08:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I don't think it was ALL intentional, or even most of it....I am very glad it happened as it did.  About time the universe threw the Bengals a bone and in this case, I am hoping we finally have our QB that can bring home a Lombardi.  

I am not saying it will be happening this year, but I am beyond excited to watch it this season. 

Yeah, the pieces usually don't fall this way for us. Kind of uncanny really.

I can believe when all the lights were turned out in the building except the floor lamp in the think tank office the powers that be had some small talk that it might not go to well. Had to hope janitor had head phones in.

But they were in win now mode to the outside world and hoped for the best. Which is to say tanking wasn't a plan. The win now mode quickly faded away though and I could believe, as has been said the decisions of keeping AJ out and playing Finley and other stuff could have been made with draft choice position in mind.

I don't believe they started out tanking, no.

(03-05-2020, 03:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I can believe when all the lights were turned out in the building except the floor lamp in the think tank office the powers that be had some small talk that it might not go to well. Had to hope janitor had head phones in.

But they were in win now mode to the outside world and hoped for the best. Which is to say tanking wasn't a plan. The win now mode quickly faded away though and I could believe, as has been said the decisions of keeping AJ out and playing Finley and other stuff could have been made with draft choice position in mind.

I don't believe they started out tanking, no.

I don't think anyone could plan it to go the way it did except the guy upstairs.

But I agree, it isn't a coincidence once we had the #1 pick locked up we actually started playing to win.

Gives me hope that if we do the right things in FA, draft Burrow and improve in play calling and in over all coaching we can start 
winning a lot of games and gain confidence under this inexperienced staff. Sometimes you have to go through some shit to not 
take things for granted, I know I have and it makes you stronger.

At least these coaches are not old dogs and cannot learn from their mistakes.

(03-05-2020, 12:39 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think we all wanted to wonder if last season was a tank job, but many refuse to entertain the thought thanks to our past incompetence...which is understandable. That said, I wouldn't doubt if they knew 2019 would be a "throw away" type of year. The roster needed a lot of re-tooling. The defense made a rather drastic change in scheme. AJ Green was hurt.

After our rough start, I wouldn't doubt if Taylor and co made some decisions that they wouldn't have made normally. Such as starting Finley for 3 games, or maybe keeping AJ off the field. Hard telling though. Kinda funny that we started playing better as it became clear we'd secure the top pick.

Fwiw, no way do I believe Mike planned this far in advance.

(03-05-2020, 03:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I believe the same.

I suggested something similar as the OP, but with Taylor as the Mastermind, not MB.  And you're both likely right that it wasn't planned from the beginning, but was turned to once key injuries piled up.

#1 - You'd never tell the players about it.  Their livelihood is at stake, and the Players Union would step in.
#2 - It's almost impossible Taylor is THAT/THIS incompetent of a play caller.  Calling running plays when passing is needed.  Calling short passes on 3rd and long.  Etc.  If you're going to tank, purposefully and quietly, offensive play calling is the place to do it.  
#3 - If you don't score, it doesn't matter how good your Defense is, so IF it was purposeful, the Defensive staff was likely not in on it.
#4 - I think the FO might have stepped in and made Taylor put AD back in, for fear of losing the locker room.
#5 - I bet AD was doing a lot of audibling out of Taylor's play calls during the Miami game, which was the only reason for the comeback.  I bet Taylor was petrified AD was going to pull it off.....if he was behind it.
#6 - As others have pointed out, the Team suddenly started playing better, and Taylor calling better plays once the top pick was secured.  Coincidences are hooey.
#7 - Tanking is a thing.  It's real.  Happens in baseball all the time.  Taylor is a young guy.  Likely into analytics.  Him tanking for a top pick or the top pick is easily believable.

Regardless, we'll see the first few games of the season the likely truth.  If Taylor is incompetent, he'll stay that way regardless of who is at QB.  If he looks like a genius play caller and coach all of a sudden, then that will speak volumes as well.  

In the end it matters not really.  The team is where it is and after the bad season, they're in the enviable position to change the course of the organization for the next decade.

(03-05-2020, 03:55 PM)Stewy Wrote: I suggested something similar as the OP, but with Taylor as the Mastermind, not MB.  And you're both likely right that it wasn't planned from the beginning, but was turned to once key injuries piled up.

#1 - You'd never tell the players about it.  Their livelihood is at stake, and the Players Union would step in.
#2 - It's almost impossible Taylor is THAT/THIS incompetent of a play caller.  Calling running plays when passing is needed.  Calling short passes on 3rd and long.  Etc.  If you're going to tank, purposefully and quietly, offensive play calling is the place to do it.  
#3 - If you don't score, it doesn't matter how good your Defense is, so IF it was purposeful, the Defensive staff was likely not in on it.
#4 - I think the FO might have stepped in and made Taylor put AD back in, for fear of losing the locker room.
#5 - I bet AD was doing a lot of audibling out of Taylor's play calls during the Miami game, which was the only reason for the comeback.  I bet Taylor was petrified AD was going to pull it off.....if he was behind it.
#6 - As others have pointed out, the Team suddenly started playing better, and Taylor calling better plays once the top pick was secured.  Coincidences are hooey.
#7 - Tanking is a thing.  It's real.  Happens in baseball all the time.  Taylor is a young guy.  Likely into analytics.  Him tanking for a top pick or the top pick is easily believable.

Regardless, we'll see the first few games of the season the likely truth.  If Taylor is incompetent, he'll stay that way regardless of who is at QB.  If he looks like a genius play caller and coach all of a sudden, then that will speak volumes as well.  

In the end it matters not really.  The team is where it is and after the bad season, they're in the enviable position to change the course of the organization for the next decade.

You might be on to something Stewy.

Seriously, just go back and watch that opener against Seattle again. 

Zac called a great game and we could of won it IN Seattle. I thought we were going to be a very good team and then we met a
Superbowl team, brought him down to earth and we went on that terrible skid. I don't find Zac to be some idiot when he speaks.

The guy is smart, so is Brian Callahan. Both Turner and Lou did better with their players late in the year when we had that #1 
pick locked up. The play calling last season besides the Seahawks, Jets and last Browns game was terrible. This can "tank" an
entire team.

One thing that I appreciate about Taylor is how he managed to hold this team together. They never quit. They do believe in the HC and what he's trying to accomplish.

Having said that, I think it was just good fortune shining down on us. If thre was ever a season to get the #1 overall pick in the draft, this was the right year to do it.

(03-05-2020, 03:55 PM)Stewy Wrote: I suggested something similar as the OP, but with Taylor as the Mastermind, not MB.  And you're both likely right that it wasn't planned from the beginning, but was turned to once key injuries piled up.

#1 - You'd never tell the players about it.  Their livelihood is at stake, and the Players Union would step in.
#2 - It's almost impossible Taylor is THAT/THIS incompetent of a play caller.  Calling running plays when passing is needed.  Calling short passes on 3rd and long.  Etc.  If you're going to tank, purposefully and quietly, offensive play calling is the place to do it.  
#3 - If you don't score, it doesn't matter how good your Defense is, so IF it was purposeful, the Defensive staff was likely not in on it.
#4 - I think the FO might have stepped in and made Taylor put AD back in, for fear of losing the locker room.
#5 - I bet AD was doing a lot of audibling out of Taylor's play calls during the Miami game, which was the only reason for the comeback.  I bet Taylor was petrified AD was going to pull it off.....if he was behind it.
#6 - As others have pointed out, the Team suddenly started playing better, and Taylor calling better plays once the top pick was secured.  Coincidences are hooey.
#7 - Tanking is a thing.  It's real.  Happens in baseball all the time.  Taylor is a young guy.  Likely into analytics.  Him tanking for a top pick or the top pick is easily believable.

Regardless, we'll see the first few games of the season the likely truth.  If Taylor is incompetent, he'll stay that way regardless of who is at QB.  If he looks like a genius play caller and coach all of a sudden, then that will speak volumes as well.  

In the end it matters not really.  The team is where it is and after the bad season, they're in the enviable position to change the course of the organization for the next decade.

Zac Taylor has left a trail of suck in his wake at every stop. Let's not give him too much credit here.

(03-05-2020, 03:55 PM)Stewy Wrote: I suggested something similar as the OP, but with Taylor as the Mastermind, not MB.  And you're both likely right that it wasn't planned from the beginning, but was turned to once key injuries piled up.

#1 - You'd never tell the players about it.  Their livelihood is at stake, and the Players Union would step in.
#2 - It's almost impossible Taylor is THAT/THIS incompetent of a play caller.  Calling running plays when passing is needed.  Calling short passes on 3rd and long.  Etc.  If you're going to tank, purposefully and quietly, offensive play calling is the place to do it.  
#3 - If you don't score, it doesn't matter how good your Defense is, so IF it was purposeful, the Defensive staff was likely not in on it.
#4 - I think the FO might have stepped in and made Taylor put AD back in, for fear of losing the locker room.
#5 - I bet AD was doing a lot of audibling out of Taylor's play calls during the Miami game, which was the only reason for the comeback.  I bet Taylor was petrified AD was going to pull it off.....if he was behind it.
#6 - As others have pointed out, the Team suddenly started playing better, and Taylor calling better plays once the top pick was secured.  Coincidences are hooey.
#7 - Tanking is a thing.  It's real.  Happens in baseball all the time.  Taylor is a young guy.  Likely into analytics.  Him tanking for a top pick or the top pick is easily believable.

Regardless, we'll see the first few games of the season the likely truth.  If Taylor is incompetent, he'll stay that way regardless of who is at QB.  If he looks like a genius play caller and coach all of a sudden, then that will speak volumes as well.  

In the end it matters not really.  The team is where it is and after the bad season, they're in the enviable position to change the course of the organization for the next decade.

Happens in the NBA as well. Shoot, they invented the lottery system to discourage it, and it still happens.

I'm thoroughly convinced that teams like the Colts and Browns tanked recently. The Browns seemed to be trying a 76ers-like long rebuild. The Colts weren't trying to win games with Peyton out and Luck sitting there. The Raiders seemed to be tanking in Gruden's first year. Dumping salary (Khalil Mack) and stockpiling good picks.

I don't think it'll ever be as prominent in the NFL as other leagues, but I think it'd be naive to believe it doesn't happen.

(03-05-2020, 05:26 PM)jason Wrote: Zac Taylor has left a trail of suck in his wake at every stop. Let's not give him too much credit here.

Yeah.

The projection of greatness or even competence on Taylor around here is a thing.

I'll believe it when I see it on a full time basis .

I'm like you man.  Pump the brakes a bit. 

Not having a good track record and coming in here losing so many games in a row doesn't get me enthused by a few wins.

(03-05-2020, 05:26 PM)jason Wrote: Zac Taylor has left a trail of suck in his wake at every stop. Let's not give him too much credit here.

He did well with the Rams otherwise he wouldn't be here, but yeah, need to see things change for the better around here 
to give Zac any credit. He is credited with 14 losses in his first season as a HC, terrible first outing no matter how you try 
and spin it. But all I know was I was hoping to get the #1 overall pick once we are completely out of it.

Maybe Zac felt the same who knows?

(03-05-2020, 07:50 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Yeah.

The projection of greatness or even competence on Taylor around here is a thing.

I'll believe it when I see it on a full time basis .

I'm like you man.  Pump the brakes a bit. 

Not having a good track record and coming in here losing so many games in a row doesn't get me enthused by a few wins.

Hey we are fans that are free to speculate in the Offseason, nothing wrong with that.

We now have a chance to build a completely different team under Joe Burrow and we will have a lot of money to spend 
to put the right players around him. I want to see how Zac and company handles this great situation we are in. 

Last season is a thing of the past, time to move on. I will judge Zac from here on out and see what occurs.

As long as we're talking about coulda, maybe, possibilities. I'm sincerely hoping Joe Burrow brings some of those voodoo Louisiana Cajun chicken bones with him and finally breaks the curse of Bo...

I don't know about all the other stuff, but benching Dalton was very much a tank move. "The season is over, let's see what Finley can do" is not something a team that is trying to win says.

The rest of it is fun conspiracy theorizing though haha. I don't think Brown is this savvy.

(03-05-2020, 05:26 PM)jason Wrote: Zac Taylor has left a trail of suck in his wake at every stop. Let's not give him too much credit here.

(03-05-2020, 07:50 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Yeah.

The projection of greatness or even competence on Taylor around here is a thing.

I'll believe it when I see it on a full time basis .

I'm like you man.  Pump the brakes a bit. 

Not having a good track record and coming in here losing so many games in a row doesn't get me enthused by a few wins.

I wasn't really arguing FOR Taylor.  Just pointing out the evidence combined with a lot of supposition that it might have been partially or wholely purposeful on Taylor's part.

I still don't think Mike Brown had anything to do with it.

(03-04-2020, 11:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Me too (don't want to be the spelling police but it is whether not that weather we all experience outside). 

Sorry, won the spelling bee when I was in the 4th grade. Won something anyways lmao!

Weather you like the whether or not it's still wether.. Or something like that.. It's been crappy weather here the past few days whether I liked it or not and I didn't like it.   It's nice and sonny whether now.
Pretty amazing some people (no names of course) still seem to think Mike Brown has any sort of thinking aheadism left.