(03-14-2020, 07:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Opened my eyes here Sunset, thanks. We also have Lawson who is a great edge to go along with Hubbard. Floyd has just 
impressed me lately when I have watched him play. I have always been a little meh on Kwiatkoski anyways. Nigel Bradham 
is flying up my list as of late with Trevathan now off the table.

(03-14-2020, 07:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'd be down with signing a vet like Bradham.  He's likely got a decent year or two left in him, enough to bridge the gap while a pick develops anyway.

Smells an awful lot like an AJ Hawk/Karlos Dansby/etc move.

(03-14-2020, 08:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Smells an awful lot like an AJ Hawk/Karlos Dansby/etc move.

He's 30, not 33, 35, etc.  He's played 8 pro seasons, and played in all but 11 games over his career.  In 8 seasons, he's had 2 really big years, and the rest can be described as consistently good.  Why all of the concern over a guy to bridge the gap for a year or two?

(03-14-2020, 08:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He's 30, not 33, 35, etc.  He's played 8 pro seasons, and played in all but 11 games over his career.  In 8 seasons, he's had 2 really big years, and the rest can be described as consistently good.  Why all of the concern over a guy to bridge the gap for a year or two?

AJ Hawk was 31 when he played for the Bengals, the exact same 31 that Bradham would be for the 2020 season. (He's 30 now, but he'd turn 31 before Week 1.)

Bradham hasn't played a full season once in the last 3 years.
Bradham has 1 INT in the last 3 years.
Bradham has 1 FF in the last 3 years.

Why would you want a 31-year-old LB who can't give you 16 games and can't get you turnovers?

- - - - - - - - - - - -

You have a chance to go out there and get a real LB that can actually help fix your LB problem, so why would you settle for a 31-year-old meh player? 

Unless you truly believe that a LB group of Bradham/Vigil/Pratt is going to shut down Lamar Jackson and his scramble/RB/TE offense. Because I didn't watch the Ravens drop 49 points on the Bengals last year and come out of that with the idea that "man, if only they had Nigel Bradham at linebacker, they'd really show them what for."

(03-14-2020, 08:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: AJ Hawk was 31 when he played for the Bengals, the exact same 31 that Bradham would be for the 2020 season. (He's 30 now, but he'd turn 31 before Week 1.)

Bradham hasn't played a full season once in the last 3 years.
Bradham has 1 INT in the last 3 years.
Bradham has 1 FF in the last 3 years.

Why would you want a 31-year-old LB who can't give you 16 games and can't get you turnovers?

- - - - - - - - - - - -

You have a chance to go out there and get a real LB that can actually help fix your LB problem, so why would you settle for a 31-year-old meh player? 

Unless you truly believe that a LB group of Bradham/Vigil/Pratt is going to shut down Lamar Jackson and his scramble/RB/TE offense. Because I didn't watch the Ravens drop 49 points on the Bengals last year and come out of that with the idea that "man, if only they had Nigel Bradham at linebacker, they'd really show them what for."

He can tackle, who are all these real Linebackers out there you are talking about?

(03-14-2020, 08:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He can tackle, who are all these real Linebackers out there you are talking about?

Cory Littleton, Joe Schobert, Blake Martinez.

I'd rather try to get Alex Ogletree (2 years younger) back into All-Pro form than Bradham. He had 5 INT in 2018 and four seasons of double digit Pdef.

(03-14-2020, 08:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Cory Littleton, Joe Schobert, Blake Martinez.

I'd rather try to get Alex Ogletree (2 years younger) back into All-Pro form than Bradham. He had 5 INT in 2018 and four seasons of double digit Pdef.

All those guys have had trouble tackling which is our biggest weakness with our Linebackers.

I don't put much stock in PFF as you know but Ogletree rates worse than Vigil in all categories including tackling and stopping the run. Don't get me wrong, would like any of these guys but I like Bradham too, have to be able to tackle.

(03-14-2020, 08:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Cory Littleton, Joe Schobert, Blake Martinez.

I'd rather try to get Alex Ogletree (2 years younger) back into All-Pro form than Bradham. He had 5 INT in 2018 and four seasons of double digit Pdef.

Well, for what the top end guys are going to cost, the Bengals might as well go ahead and pin their hopes on drafting the perfect LB to pair with Pratt, and go from there.  It was posted a while back that LB is one of the worst return on investment positions, as far as free agency spending goes.  If you don't believe that, just ask the Jets how paying CJ Mosely all that money worked out for them.

(03-14-2020, 09:03 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All those guys have had trouble tackling which is our biggest weakness with our Linebackers.

I don't put much stock in PFF as you know but Ogletree rates worse than Vigil in all categories including tackling and stopping the run. Don't get me wrong, would like any of these guys but I like Bradham too, have to be able to tackle.

Yet Ogletree was an All-Pro in 2016. I'm not saying he's my first choice, but he'd probably be my 4th if you have a LB coach worth a damn. If he's done it before, it means he clearly has it in him. Just need the right coaching/scheme to do it again.

Alternatively, it doesn't matter if you can tackle if you're 5 yards behind the guy, or tackle him after he's already gained a first down. The Ravens are the team to beat right now in the division if you want to go to the playoffs. 2 of their top 3 pass catchers were TE, and 3 of their top 5. If you can't cover a TE, you're never going to beat the Ravens right now. Better tackling form can be taught. The ability to run fast, diagnose routes, and make plays on the ball is much harder to teach.

Also once again...

Littleton: 27
Schobert: 27
Martinez: 26
Ogletree: 29

Bradham: 31

At 31, it's downhill from there for all non-QB/K/P. At least the other guys still have prime years to get even better... or at least not get worse.

(03-14-2020, 09:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, for what the top end guys are going to cost, the Bengals might as well go ahead and pin their hopes on drafting the perfect LB to pair with Pratt, and go from there.  It was posted a while back that LB is one of the worst return on investment positions, as far as free agency spending goes.  If you don't believe that, just ask the Jets how paying CJ Mosely all that money worked out for them.

Who cares how much they cost? The Bengals can have all the cap space in the world if they want it. They're about to get a cost controlled QB for 5 years. If you have the money now, spend it now, regardless of the return on investment. The alternative is giving money to BW Webb, Bobby Hart, and Mike Brown.

They haven't been able to draft a LB for years. Time to simply buy one or two.

Germaine Pratt (3rd)
Malik Jefferson (3rd)
Jordan Evans (6th)
Nick Vigil (3rd)
Paul Dawson (3rd)
Marquise Flowers (6th)
Sean Porter (4th)
Dontay Moch (3rd)
Rodderick Muckleroy (4th)

That is the list of LBs they've drafted in the last 10 years. Nothing there fills me with confidence in their LB drafting ability. They have used five 3rds, two 4ths, and two 6th round picks and gotten 0 good LB in the last decade.

(03-15-2020, 12:00 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yet Ogletree was an All-Pro in 2016. I'm not saying he's my first choice, but he'd probably be my 4th if you have a LB coach worth a damn. If he's done it before, it means he clearly has it in him. Just need the right coaching/scheme to do it again.

Alternatively, it doesn't matter if you can tackle if you're 5 yards behind the guy, or tackle him after he's already gained a first down. The Ravens are the team to beat right now in the division if you want to go to the playoffs. 2 of their top 3 pass catchers were TE, and 3 of their top 5. If you can't cover a TE, you're never going to beat the Ravens right now. Better tackling form can be taught. The ability to run fast, diagnose routes, and make plays on the ball is much harder to teach.

Also once again...

Littleton: 27
Schobert: 27
Martinez: 26
Ogletree: 29

Bradham: 31

At 31, it's downhill from there for all non-QB/K/P. At least the other guys still have prime years to get even better... or at least not get worse.

Great argument, well done. I still like Bradham better than Ogletree at this moment, but would love to get any of these guys.

So true, need to be able to cover the TE. Lamar goes to them more than about anybody.