(10-15-2015, 12:33 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I do think that Gresh was misused here, and once healthy will be interested to see what he does in Arians offense.

The guy has 5 catches for 51 yards and 0 TDs.  Not very interesting stuff, honesty.  Personally, I think we'd be better off with Gresham AND Eifert and I do sort of recall people getting all hopeful about 2 TE sets and the Bengals turning into the Patriots at one point.  But Eifert got injured and Gresham left town so we're back to 1 TE who catches everything and 4 TEs who catch nothing.

Meh, we're 5-0 so I guess you can't worry about it.

Not a chance.

But with that being said, he was good just not great and think that is what frustrated many fans including me.

Seeing that he had the all the tools and potential to be elite, yet somehow never reached this level.

(10-14-2015, 09:41 PM)Housh Wrote: So I guess the question is if Dalton had played this well last year would Gresham still be here?

I suspect he'd be playing well, but no way as well.

(10-15-2015, 01:41 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The guy has 5 catches for 51 yards and 0 TDs.  Not very interesting stuff, honesty.  Personally, I think we'd be better off with Gresham AND Eifert and I do sort of recall people getting all hopeful about 2 TE sets and the Bengals turning into the Patriots at one point.  But Eifert got injured and Gresham left town so we're back to 1 TE who catches everything and 4 TEs who catch nothing.

Meh, we're 5-0 so I guess you can't worry about it.

I didn't even know they had activated him yet. Thought he was going to be out recovering from the surgery still. Have to start paying closer attention during the afternoon games now to see if he's out there.

NO, the only thing Gresh out performs Eiffort in is blocking.

(10-14-2015, 09:41 PM)Housh Wrote: I was one of those people who valued having 2 great TEs and I was definitely in the minority of people who wanted to resign Gresham. 5 games in and I have to say despite probably 2-3 false starts he'd have by now I think Gresham would have at least 3 TDs by now along with Eifert's numbers.

Not saying I'd rather have Gresh because Eifert is clearly the better receiver but I think it'd be crazy seeing Gresh catch passes on 3rd and 2 and then Eifert right after.


So I guess the question is if Dalton had played this well last year would Gresham still be here?

No.  He would still be false starting, fumbling, and complaining.

(10-14-2015, 10:16 PM)bonesaw Wrote: Gresham is a good blend up speed, size, and power but I don't think he has the body control to make as many catches as Eifert.

Or hands, or discipline, or route-running, or football IQ, or.....

In the words of Jay Gruden: "Jermaine needs to learn how to play football", and that was before the 2013 season. 

(10-14-2015, 09:41 PM)Housh Wrote: I was one of those people who valued having 2 great TEs and I was definitely in the minority of people who wanted to resign Gresham. 5 games in and I have to say despite probably 2-3 false starts he'd have by now I think Gresham would have at least 3 TDs by now along with Eifert's numbers.

Not saying I'd rather have Gresh because Eifert is clearly the better receiver but I think it'd be crazy seeing Gresh catch passes on 3rd and 2 and then Eifert right after.


So I guess the question is if Dalton had played this well last year would Gresham still be here?

Gresham is nowhere near the athlete or football player Eifert is. Tyler is fluid, with excellent hands, quickness, and speed. He also uses his body to block out defenders from the ball so well. He has also turned into a fine blocker and dependable person to have on the field.

Eifert is in a different league of player than Gresham. Gresham's career high for TDs in a season is 6. Tyler has 5 (should be 6 if it weren't for that TD catch called back) after only 5 games in 2015. To blame Andy Dalton for any of Gresham's failings in Cincy doesn't pass the smell test. Marvin Jones had 10 TDs and did fine one season with Andy. AJ Green has done even better than that. So, to put it out there like... "Wow, what would Gresh do with THIS AD and THIS offense" doesn't make sense. Realistically, I would guess Gresh would be watching Tyler spike the ball and blocking for him. Probably have 1 TD and 100 yards or something.

(10-16-2015, 08:45 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Gresham is nowhere near the athlete or football player Eifert is. Tyler is fluid, with excellent hands, quickness, and speed. He also uses his body to block out defenders from the ball so well. He has also turned into a fine blocker and dependable person to have on the field.

Eifert is in a different league of player than Gresham. Gresham's career high for TDs in a season is 6. Tyler has 5 (should be 6 if it weren't for that TD catch called back) after only 5 games in 2015. To blame Andy Dalton for any of Gresham's failings in Cincy doesn't pass the smell test. Marvin Jones had 10 TDs and did fine one season with Andy. AJ Green has done even better than that. So, to put it out there like... "Wow, what would Gresh do with THIS AD and THIS offense" doesn't make sense. Realistically, I would guess Gresh would be watching Tyler spike the ball and blocking for him. Probably have 1 TD and 100 yards or something.

I do agree with all of the bold, but I definitely think Hue would have cooked up something spicy with 2 TE sets and Gresh would be good for something like a 30-350-4 statline in this type of offense. Now, I don't know if his injuries are an issue this year, because that would obviously change things, but I'd have loved to see Eifert and Gresham together again ala 2013, with Eifert obviously improved after getting some NFL experience.

This team already has a ton of weapons, so it makes the whole 2 TE dream being crushed not so bad, but it would have been cool to see that type of offense with Andy looking better than ever. I'm hoping Kroft gets to the point where we can see some dual TE stuff in the future.

Jermaine got the hint when we drafted Eifert... He wasn't in our future plans. He never lived up to the hype, and for every one good play he had, he would follow up with 3 stupid penalties.

(10-16-2015, 08:53 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Jermaine got the hint when we drafted Eifert... He wasn't in our future plans. He never lived up to the hype, and for every one good play he had, he would follow up with 3 stupid penalties.

The stats show that being quite the opposite. For every stupid penalty, Gresham would make multiple good plays.

But hey, I'm no mathematician!

(10-15-2015, 12:33 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I do think that Gresh was misused here, and once healthy will be interested to see what he does in Arians offense.

Gresham didn't have the burst off the line Eifert does which made him ill suited for deep seams. That's why he was the short dump off guy that ran through tackles.

I'm still wondering why Gresham went to Arizona because he always complained he wanted more targets. Bruce Arians offensive scheme uses TEs mostly as a blocker in his offense. Gresham did become a hell of a blocker though so he did go where it could amplify his strengths.

(10-16-2015, 08:56 AM)djs7685 Wrote: The stats show that being quite the opposite. For every stupid penalty, Gresham would make multiple good plays.

But hey, I'm no mathematician!

Stats for his entire career here aren't the same as whats going on during the game.. How many times did we witness him make a great catch and run, only to follow it up with a drive killing holding call? I mean that was the major knock on him for the longest time. There were times when he was really good, and there were times when he did some really dumb shit.

Gresham and Eifert are two very different players. I think Eifert is who most of us hoped Gresham was when he was drafted. Fluid, great body control, exceptional hands. Unfortunately, we never saw much of that from Gresham. Maybe it was the coaches did not know how to use him, or maybe it was he did not have the skill set. Whatever it was, the team is in a much better position now.

I am sure the OP will take a lot of crap for that post.

There are many reasons why Dalton has been playing so well and one of them is he trusts his receivers
more-so than he ever has. Eifert has the size, hands, speed and route running of a very rare player.

What Housh said about him is dead on. Rare talent and Dalton can trust him. I don't think Dalton could
ever really trust Gresh. Kroft will be good for us if we need him, right now we don't need him with all
these weapons.

(10-15-2015, 07:53 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: No.  He would still be false starting, fumbling, and complaining.

This post is completely unfair.  Gotta think things through completely.

He made up for the above errors by:

1.  Committing holding penalties
2.  Running poor/incorrect routes
3.  Creating picks with TRex arm deflections
4.  Not just false starts, but illegal formations

In fact, his absence has a lot to do with Dalton's improved play IMO

(10-16-2015, 02:56 PM)Wilikn Wrote: This post is completely unfair.  Gotta think things through completely.

He made up for the above errors by:

1.  Committing holding penalties
2.  Running poor/incorrect routes
3.  Creating picks with TRex arm deflections
4.  Not just false starts, but illegal formations

In fact, his absence has a lot to do with Dalton's improved play IMO

Wow, no wonder we went 4-12 in 2010!  Gresham is the worst TE eva!!!

(10-16-2015, 02:56 PM)Wilikn Wrote: This post is completely unfair.  Gotta think things through completely.

He made up for the above errors by:

1.  Committing holding penalties
2.  Running poor/incorrect routes
3.  Creating picks with TRex arm deflections
4.  Not just false starts, but illegal formations

In fact, his absence has a lot to do with Dalton's improved play IMO

Hey there, if you want to bash Gresham, at least get your shit straight.

2010 - 2 false start, 1 hold, 1 unnecessary roughness
2011 - 5 false start, 1 OPI
2012 - 3 false start, 6 hold
2013 - 4 false start, 5 hold, 1 unsportsmanlike, 1 declined OPI
2014 - 3 false start, 1 hold, 1 illegal motion

Doesn't look like multiple "illegal formations" in there to me. I'd wager that not many of Andy's INTs were because of Gresham's arm length as well.

Simple answer.....NO

I just don't get why people can't be elated about Eifert without convincing themselves that Gresham was a total bum that made 2011-2014 unbearable. Wasn't Gresham the best TE this team had in a long time, or am I severely underestimating the power of Chase Coffman and Dan Coates?