(03-22-2020, 10:07 PM)McC Wrote: A lot of people think won't get by the Ratbirds in the first.  a LOT of people.

Those Ratbirds are a bit of a worry now all around with Lamar becoming what he has.

Didn't think Lamar had it in him I was wrong sadly, he can throw from the pocket now. 

Will be tough going against these guys for years to come if he keeps it up.

(03-22-2020, 09:44 PM)McC Wrote: Murray in the bottom third of the second?  Most people think he won't even be there at 33.  I understand the unpredictability of the draft but there seems to be a virtual consensus on him being a first rounder.

Yeah it's unlikely, but stranger things have happened. The mock draft machine I used had him there, so I went with it. 

The knock I've read on Murray is that he's not always assignment-disciplined. He'll get you some big plays but give up some too. I could see a scenario where that sort of information, which wouldn't be available to regular Joes in the media, caused him to drop further than anybody thought. 

I mean Mack Wilson was projected in roughly the same range and dropped all the way to the fifth round I believe. 

(03-22-2020, 11:41 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Yeah it's unlikely, but stranger things have happened. The mock draft machine I used had him there, so I went with it. 

The knock I've read on Murray is that he's not always assignment-disciplined. He'll get you some big plays but give up some too. I could see a scenario where that sort of information, which wouldn't be available to regular Joes in the media, caused him to drop further than anybody thought. 

I mean Mack Wilson was projected in roughly the same range and dropped all the way to the fifth round I believe. 

The thing with Murray is he is instinctual, all the greats are. He takes great angles and wraps up.

If we get a LB at 33 I hope it is this guy, he can diagnose plays and make the tackle, even if he uses his arms too much he 
still wraps up which is what matters. Murray just doesn't go for the big hit, he makes the play. Not as good in coverage as 
say Queen but he be good, damn good with great upside and he has some power to not get run over.

(03-22-2020, 10:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Those Ratbirds are a bit of a worry now all around with Lamar becoming what he has.

Didn't think Lamar had it in him I was wrong sadly, he can throw from the pocket now. 

Will be tough going against these guys for years to come if he keeps it up.

Lamar could always throw from the pocket. The whole "he can't throw" just got started because he runs so well that was his go to, and pretty much still is.  He made tremendous passes at Louisville.

(03-23-2020, 11:06 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Lamar could always throw from the pocket. The whole "he can't throw" just got started because he runs so well that was his go to, and pretty much still is.  He made tremendous passes at Louisville.

I know that, I just didn't like his throwing motion and he improved it last year a lot. Like I said, I was wrong about him.

Lamar has turned into a fine QB.

(03-22-2020, 11:41 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Yeah it's unlikely, but stranger things have happened. The mock draft machine I used had him there, so I went with it. 

The knock I've read on Murray is that he's not always assignment-disciplined. He'll get you some big plays but give up some too. I could see a scenario where that sort of information, which wouldn't be available to regular Joes in the media, caused him to drop further than anybody thought. 

I mean Mack Wilson was projected in roughly the same range and dropped all the way to the fifth round I believe. 

I saw the same issues as Nate.

Murray has dramatically better numbers than what Mack Wilson did. And, his measurables are much better.

Murray Combine---6'2", 240, 4.50 40yd, Vert-38"
Wilson Combine---6'1", 240, 4.71 40 yd, Vert-33"

Wilson had an up and down 1 year as a starter for Alabama.
Not much debate about Murray's season at OU. He had a great year.

I don't see Murray getting past the Bengals if he falls to them at #33. I think everyone on this board may jump at that point! Lmao! Or, how about if we were to pass him up at #65 and then the 4th???? OMG, people's heads would explode!

(03-23-2020, 03:17 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: I saw the same issues as Nate.

Murray has dramatically better numbers than what Mack Wilson did. And, his measurables are much better.

Murray Combine---6'2", 240, 4.50 40yd, Vert-38"
Wilson Combine---6'1", 240, 4.71 40 yd, Vert-33"

Wilson had an up and down 1 year as a starter for Alabama.
Not much debate about Murray's season at OU. He had a great year.

I don't see Murray getting past the Bengals if he falls to them at #33. I think everyone on this board may jump at that point! Lmao! Or, how about if we were to pass him up at #65 and then the 4th???? OMG, people's heads would explode!

As weak as this year's LB class is, I'd honestly be surprised if Murray made it past 20. 

(03-23-2020, 01:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I know that, I just didn't like his throwing motion and he improved it last year a lot. Like I said, I was wrong about him.

Lamar has turned into a fine QB.

Until the playoffs begin

(03-23-2020, 07:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: As weak as this year's LB class is, I'd honestly be surprised if Murray made it past 20. 

Sadly I agree.   

(03-23-2020, 07:20 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Until the playoffs begin

Hopefully we make it there next year and he plays the same. I am liking what we have done on Defense this FA big time.

(03-22-2020, 10:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Those Ratbirds are a bit of a worry now all around with Lamar becoming what he has.

Didn't think Lamar had it in him I was wrong sadly, he can throw from the pocket now. 

Will be tough going against these guys for years to come if he keeps it up.

Maybe. I foresee some wicked shoot-outs between Lamar and Joe Burrow....  

(03-23-2020, 01:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I know that, I just didn't like his throwing motion and he improved it last year a lot. Like I said, I was wrong about him.

Lamar has turned into a fine QB.

Lamar is an excellent QB. However, I stand by the prediction that he will have a short career compared to the average QB. I love watching duel threat QBs but reality is they dont seem to be nearly as durable for longevity in the NFL as a pure pocket passer. They are more like RBs the way their bodies take a beating. Dont get me wrong, if Lamar was a Bengal I'd be ecstatic, but I would still be expecting injuries to eventually start pilng on and shorten his career. That just an opinion of course, but I do stand by it until I start seeing different.

(03-24-2020, 12:55 PM)JSR18 Wrote: Maybe. I foresee some wicked shoot-outs between Lamar and Joe Burrow....  

Should be fun.

(03-24-2020, 01:06 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Lamar is an excellent QB. However, I stand by the prediction that he will have a short career compared to the average QB. I love watching duel threat QBs but reality is they dont seem to be nearly as durable for longevity in the NFL as a pure pocket passer. They are more like RBs the way their bodies take a beating. Dont get me wrong, if Lamar was a Bengal I'd be ecstatic, but I would still be expecting injuries to eventually start pilng on and shorten his career. That just an opinion of course, but I do stand by it until I start seeing different.

Felt the same when he came out, he surprised me last year running as much as he did and not getting hurt.

Don't think that can go on forever.

(03-24-2020, 01:06 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Lamar is an excellent QB. However, I stand by the prediction that he will have a short career compared to the average QB. I love watching duel threat QBs but reality is they dont seem to be nearly as durable for longevity in the NFL as a pure pocket passer. They are more like RBs the way their bodies take a beating. Dont get me wrong, if Lamar was a Bengal I'd be ecstatic, but I would still be expecting injuries to eventually start pilng on and shorten his career. That just an opinion of course, but I do stand by it until I start seeing different.

Well said.  And I would add that the fact that their entire offense is built around having him carry the ball definitely screams shelf life.  He's been good at avoiding the bone crushers but it really only takes one to start the decline.  Ask RGIII.

(03-23-2020, 07:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: As weak as this year's LB class is, I'd honestly be surprised if Murray made it past 20. 

Actually, by most accounts, this draft is pretty deep with talented LBs. Also, Murray has been projected many times as a 2nd round pick.

My question is, why is Baun not getting any love?

Here is a nice article on LB depth and draft projections:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-position-rankings-linebackers

(03-24-2020, 01:59 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: Actually, by most accounts, this draft is pretty deep with talented LBs. Also, Murray has been projected many times as a 2nd round pick.

My question is, why is Baun not getting any love?

Here is a nice article on LB depth and draft projections:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-position-rankings-linebackers

Baun can drop and cover, play the run and get after the QB.  That sounds like hell yeah, gimme one of those.

(03-24-2020, 01:59 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: Actually, by most accounts, this draft is pretty deep with talented LBs. Also, Murray has been projected many times as a 2nd round pick.

My question is, why is Baun not getting any love?

Here is a nice article on LB depth and draft projections:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-position-rankings-linebackers

According to whom?  This class is so bad that people are talking about Patrick Queen, a guy with less than a year of starting experience, possibly going in the 1st.  

Murray will go higher than many are expecting simply because he and Simmons are the only real "clean" stack LB prospects in the draft.  I don't think he's one of the 20 best players in the draft, but someone will reach based on the lack of quality behind him and a thin FA LB class.  

(03-24-2020, 02:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: According to whom?  This class is so bad that people are talking about Patrick Queen, a guy with less than a year of starting experience, possibly going in the 1st.  

Murray will go higher than many are expecting simply because he and Simmons are the only real "clean" stack LB prospects in the draft.  I don't think he's one of the 20 best players in the draft, but someone will reach based on the lack of quality behind him and a thin FA LB class.  

Did you even bother to read the link I posted? If not, here is another link that supports my post:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2872786-ranking-every-position-in-the-2020-nfl-draft#slide5

My point is, there are plenty of good prospects at LB in the first 3 rounds for the Bengals. This may not be the best year for LB depth but it is far better than last year.

(03-24-2020, 01:49 PM)McC Wrote: Well said.  And I would add that the fact that their entire offense is built around having him carry the ball definitely screams shelf life.  He's been good at avoiding the bone crushers but it really only takes one to start the decline.  Ask RGIII.

And Dunlap was part of that start lol

(03-24-2020, 02:37 PM)McC Wrote: Baun can drop and cover, play the run and get after the QB.  That sounds like hell yeah, gimme one of those.

Yes, really like Baun, he can also tackle well. The knock on Murray is he tackles with his arms, but I love Murray's instincts and
he is also a LB that can get after the QB. Queen has little production but he is very good in coverage and got better wrapping up
as the year went on. Akeem Davis-Gaither is honestly a guy I would really like if one of these guys doesn't fall to us.

Take ADG in the third or 4th would be awesome.

(03-24-2020, 01:59 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: Actually, by most accounts, this draft is pretty deep with talented LBs. Also, Murray has been projected many times as a 2nd round pick.

My question is, why is Baun not getting any love?

Here is a nice article on LB depth and draft projections:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-position-rankings-linebackers

Jordyn Brooks is a damn good tackler, would love him in the 4th round.

(03-24-2020, 03:16 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: Did you even bother to read the link I posted? If not, here is another link that supports my post:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2872786-ranking-every-position-in-the-2020-nfl-draft#slide5

My point is, there are plenty of good prospects at LB in the first 3 rounds for the Bengals. This may not be the best year for LB depth but it is far better than last year.

You posted a PFF article in which their 2nd best LB prospect is ranked 42nd overall and actually projects to an edge defender and a Bleacher Report article that doesn't even rank LB's in the top half of position groups in the draft.  That's hardly deep. Frankly, I find the BR article hard to take seriously when they have QB as their #1 position group ahead of what's supposed to be a generational type WR draft.  

Aside from Simmons and Murray, there are no clean prospects for stack LB's like the Bengals need on day 1 or 2.  Baun is a 3-4 OLB/Edge.  Queen has less than a season as a starter.  Dye has medicals.  Davis-Gaither is a small school prospect with medicals.