(03-26-2020, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: First, Green is not a "generational" talent (never finished higher than 5th in receptions, yards, or tds.)

Calvin Johnson WAS a "generational" talent.  How many receptions did he have when he was 32?

Calvin Johnson was before the rookie wage scale.  He got a very big "bite of the apple" with his first contract.  And he didn't decline in production and get forced off the field.  He walked away while he was still a serious talent.  He simply didn't need the money to warrant the pounding his body would take.  Nothing at all like AJ Green's situation, where he has said he wants to own every Bengals receiving record before he retires.  

(03-26-2020, 05:18 PM)RASCAL Wrote: for the tag it was. He either produces this year or he will be let go!!!

I think the Bengals have to draft his possible successor since the odds are not in his favor.  My guy for today's NFL is Chase Claypool.  He should be there in the middle of Rd 2 and the Bengals can slide and get an additional 3rd rounder.   I think there will be a lot of teams aiming to trade up to 33.

(03-26-2020, 05:41 PM)caneyoufeelit Wrote: We essentially replaced a lot of guys who were terrible against the run for guys who are worse against the pass.  I feel like we're playing 'whack-a-mole' with our strategy. I look for our pass defense to be demonstrably worse next year.  

Where did we get worse against the pass?  And how many of those struggles last year were due to a lack of pass rush and soft against the rush?  Harder to defend a 3rd and 2 than a 3rd and 9.  

I get Fred and some others here do not like AJ, but to deny his talent level just makes you look ridiculous. He IS a generational talent. And he is headed to the Hall. He was 100% last TC, and he rolled his ankle when he got tangled with Dre. Freak accident, not injury prone. The only recurring injury he ever had was his toe, and he had that surgically repaired. As for how healthy he is, and the swelling and all that, they know what the injury was. It's not like it's some big mystery. Something like that just takes time, which he has had. I fully expect them to work out a 3 year contract with him, loaded with incentives, which protect both the team and AJ. If AJ performs, he get rewarded with numbers like he wants. If he doesn't, the team isn't out much. Win Win.... I don't have to argue the point though, AJ himself will prove Fred wrong.

(03-27-2020, 08:58 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I get Fred and some others here do not like AJ, but to deny his talent level just makes you look ridiculous. 

You get nothing.  I have always like Green, but you can't call a player a "generational talent" when he has never came close to leading the league in anything.  For several years Green was considered "one of the best" WRs in the league.  His numbers might have been higher if he had played for a team that threw the ball more, but he was never considered the absolute best WR in the league.

I still love the guy, but he is 32 and was not able to recover like he was supposed to last year.  The only people looking ridiculous are the ones claiming that he will never be slowed down by age or injury.

I’m a huge AJ fan, but he is neither a generational talent (that word is tossed around much too casually in sports these days), nor is he headed for Canton. He might have a chance if he develops some insane chemistry with Burrow, and more importantly, stays completely healthy for the next few years.

(03-27-2020, 10:25 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m a huge AJ fan, but he is neither a generational talent (that word is tossed around much too casually in sports these days), nor is he headed for Canton. He might have a chance if he develops some insane chemistry with Burrow, and more importantly, stays completely healthy for the next few years.

I don't really toss around such phrases but I will say this--defenses will still game plan around him and use a lot of double teams on him and you can tell a lot about him by looking at what his presence on the field means but you can tell even more by looking at what his absence means.

Rule of thumb on this board--there will always be someone who considers it their job to tell you why not to like a certain player too much or why not to be happy about any of the team's moves in particular or overall prospects in general.  Basically, if you throw a parade, there will be rain.

(03-27-2020, 10:45 AM)McC Wrote: I don't really toss around such phrases but I will say this--defenses will still game plan around him and use a lot of double teams on him and you can tell a lot about him by looking at what his presence on the field means but you can tell even more by looking at what his absence means.

Rule of thumb on this board--there will always be someone who considers it their job to tell you why not to like a certain player too much or why not to be happy about any of the team's moves in particular or overall prospects in general.  Basically, if you throw a parade, there will be rain.

He’s a game changer, that’s for sure. But “generational?” Nah. Generational literally means there’s only a player that good once a generation. That term should be reserved for guys like Jerry Rice, LT, etc.

AJ can’t be generational when he played at the same time as guys like AB, Julio, and Hopkins.

(03-27-2020, 10:51 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s a game changer, that’s for sure. But “generational?” Nah. Generational literally means there’s only a player that good once a generation. That term should be reserved for guys like Jerry Rice, LT, etc.

AJ can’t be generational when he played at the same time as guys like AB, Julio, and Hopkins.

That's why I don't use such terms about anybody.  Honestly, you have to get to the next generation and decide such things looking back.  History has to be the judge.

Now, if the phrase is generational "talent," and not generational "production," that's a different argument.  He certainly has rare talent--a guy his size  with such body control and fluidity is truly rare.  He is a physical freak and that's pretty hard to argue against.

(03-26-2020, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except for the $19 million we guaranteed to a 32-year-old WR who has not played in two years.

No risk = No reward

A healthy AJ Green is a top draft pick times 3

AJ changes how defensive coordinators scheme
The Bengals. AJ makes plays at all 3 levels of the defense
No other target on the Bengals does that as well as Green
Let's remember he hasn't really played in 2 years
That's 2 years his body has been fresh
This offense and the development of Burrow needs him

(03-27-2020, 10:25 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m a huge AJ fan, but he is neither a generational talent (that word is tossed around much too casually in sports these days), nor is he headed for Canton. He might have a chance if he develops some insane chemistry with Burrow, and more importantly, stays completely healthy for the next few years.

Right, AJ it not better than AB. That alone doesn't make him a generational talent, since, well, they're in the same generation. Not to even mention guys like Beckham, Hopkins, Jones, etc.

I do think he gets into the hall though. He gets another 1-2 solid years and I would say he's a lock, but as of right now I would say he's probably a "pretty sure" thing to see his name in Canton.

(03-26-2020, 12:29 PM)WhoDey Wrote: We have all seen the Redskins and others in the league spend a lot of money in free agency without success. The Bengals seem to be spending on guys that are entering their prime, rather than spending on huge named guys that could have a few good years left. Namely Bell and Reader.

I'll try to help you get this back on topic. 

It's definitely great to see. I'll add that they seem to be emphasizing high-character guys with playoff experience to build the team culture. We've already seen some "me" guys let go with possibly some more on their way out. I wonder if this means an ending of the Pacman/Burflict type head cases.

(03-27-2020, 11:43 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Right, AJ it not better than AB. That alone doesn't make him a generational talent, since, well, they're in the same generation. Not to even mention guys like Beckham, Hopkins, etc.

I do think he gets into the hall though. He gets another 1-2 solid years and I would say he's a lock, but as of right now I would say he's probably a "pretty sure" thing to see his name in Canton.

Chad is not in and he has 11k Yds and 67 TD

AJ is currently at 8900 yds and 63 TD

AJ should easily pass Chad in TD, but he’ll need a couple big seasons in Yds to even pass Chad, let alone get into the HOF. I would say he needs to get to at least 12k yds. Some playoff success would also help.

He’s by no means a lock though.

Has the Bengals signed all of their free agent pick-ups? Who do they have signed? Who isn't? I have seen two FA's signings fall through (Ravens and Jags).

(03-27-2020, 11:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chad is not in and he has 11k Yds and 67 TD

AJ is currently at 8900 yds and 63 TD

AJ should easily pass Chad in TD, but he’ll need a couple big seasons in Yds to even pass Chad, let alone get into the HOF. I would say he needs to get to at least 12k yds. Some playoff success would also help.

He’s by no means a lock though.

Interesting discussion about Chad and AJ has HoF worthy WRs.  I wonder if either ever becomes the next Bengal to be enshrined?  My gut tells me no.

https://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/franchises/

Obviously, Munoz is our guy.  Joiner/TO spent time with the Bengals, but are primarily in the HoF for their contributions on other teams.

Does Chad or AJ become the next Bengal to get in?  If not, it's looks like we'll be hoping for Burrow to get in in about 20 to 25 years haha.

(03-27-2020, 12:10 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Interesting discussion about Chad and AJ has HoF worthy WRs.  I wonder if either ever becomes the next Bengal to be enshrined?  My guy tells me no.

https://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/franchises/

Obviously, Munoz is our guy.  Joiner/TO spent time with the Bengals, but are primarily in the HoF for their contributions on other teams.

Does Chad or AJ become the next Bengal to get in?  If not, it's looks like we'll be hoping for Burrow to get in in about 20 to 25 years haha.

Geno will probably be next.

(03-27-2020, 11:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chad is not in and he has 11k Yds and 67 TD

AJ is currently at 8900 yds and 63 TD

AJ should easily pass Chad in TD, but he’ll need a couple big seasons in Yds to even pass Chad, let alone get into the HOF. I would say he needs to get to at least 12k yds. Some playoff success would also help.

He’s by no means a lock though.

The playoff success is the biggest thing most likely. His receptions are now quite what I'd thought they'd be either (600-ish). But Mike Irvin had 11,910 yards and 65 TDs (he did well in playoffs though). It was a different era in the late 90s tbf. But as you stated I think if he can get to 12,000 and around 75 TDs he'll have a pretty good shot

If I pay everyone 5 bucks, will you all put FredToast on ignore?

(03-27-2020, 11:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chad is not in and he has 11k Yds and 67 TD

AJ is currently at 8900 yds and 63 TD

AJ should easily pass Chad in TD, but he’ll need a couple big seasons in Yds to even pass Chad, let alone get into the HOF. I would say he needs to get to at least 12k yds. Some playoff success would also help.

He’s by no means a lock though.

No expert here as I said CP would be our next HOF Bengal. I find it interesting watching comparisons between Palmer and AD, the AD haters say Green made AD, but never said Chad and TJ made Palmer?

I think AJ due to injuries has to finish strong, stay healthy and play 3 more years. I agree also playoff wins or a Super Bowl win and contribution in the win helps his cause.