See how it works? I'm latched onto this team for 30+ years and you know how that went. I get away for a few months (built a PC and been playing CoD non stop--along w/some other games) and look what happens. I had no idea what they've been doing but that list is...wow. 

Ok, back out to play games. I'll probably check back with the team after the season starts to see if the moves made any difference. 

Peace out folks. 

(03-26-2020, 03:36 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: See how it works? I'm latched onto this team for 30+ years and you know how that went. I get away for a few months (built a PC and been playing CoD non stop--along w/some other games) and look what happens. I had no idea what they've been doing but that list is...wow. 

Ok, back out to play games. I'll probably check back with the team after the season starts to see if the moves made any difference. 

Peace out folks. 

Yeah, get outta here Rfaulk lol

(03-26-2020, 12:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We never sucked as bad under Marvin as we did last year.

Win/loss wise, you're right. No team sucked as bad as the last one Marvin built.

(03-27-2020, 02:02 PM)Benton Wrote: Win/loss wise, you're right. No team sucked as bad as the last one Marvin built.

(03-27-2020, 02:02 PM)Benton Wrote: Win/loss wise, you're right. No team sucked as bad as the last one Marvin built.

(03-27-2020, 02:07 PM)McC Wrote:

I don't get it.  Marvin did not build the 2019 Bengals.

(03-27-2020, 02:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't get it.  Marvin did not build the 2019 Bengals.

Sure he did, outside of the two or three FA's they picked up last year.

(03-27-2020, 02:40 PM)McC Wrote: Sure he did, outside of the two or three FA's they picked up last year.

And Pratt. But yeah, it’s was mostly Marvin’s guys.

(03-27-2020, 02:40 PM)McC Wrote: Sure he did, outside of the two or three FA's they picked up last year.

(03-27-2020, 02:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And Pratt. But yeah, it’s was mostly Marvin’s guys.

So you are saying that Marvin won 6 games with the same team that Zach could only get 2 wins from?

(03-27-2020, 03:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are saying that Marvin won 6 games with the same team that Zach could only get 2 wins from?

Uh, no.  What I said was "Sure he did, outside of the two or three FA's they picked up last year."  Try to keep up.

(03-27-2020, 03:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are saying that Marvin won 6 games with the same team that Zach could only get 2 wins from?

Well, Marvin had AJ for 5 of those wins.

(03-27-2020, 03:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are saying that Marvin won 6 games with the same team that Zach could only get 2 wins from?

(03-27-2020, 02:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't get it.  Marvin did not build the 2019 Bengals.

(03-27-2020, 03:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are saying that Marvin won 6 games with the same team that Zach could only get 2 wins from?

To the first, he had a hand in drafting or picking up nearly every player on 2019. Zac, arguably, had a hand in 3-4 (I don't remember all the signings).

To the second: Andy was two years younger, green played in part of those games and we had a few other players in 2018.

Also to the second: ever tried to ride a bike set up for someone different than you? Like one of your kids? Sure, it's basically the same thing, wheels and tassels and all, but if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.

Marvin wanted a team the way he liked to play. He knew the best way to break even, which I think was his biggest concern. A team built to lose less isn't necessarily built to win. 

So, I agree. Marvin built a team that only won two games last season. I'm anxious to see what Zac builds.

(03-27-2020, 02:02 PM)Benton Wrote: Win/loss wise, you're right. No team sucked as bad as the last one Marvin built.

Well said, now we can judge Zac now that he is starting to build his own team...

(03-27-2020, 04:21 PM)Benton Wrote: Marvin wanted a team the way he liked to play. He knew the best way to break even, which I think was his biggest concern. A team built to lose less isn't necessarily built to win. 

I have no idea what this means.  Please give me a specific example of a move Marvin made that would help the team lose less but not win.

(03-27-2020, 04:21 PM)Benton Wrote: To the first, he had a hand in drafting or picking up nearly every player on 2019. Zac, arguably, had a hand in 3-4 (I don't remember all the signings).

So Marvin ran the 2019 draft?


This is getting silly.


Neither Zac nor Marvin determined who we signed in free agency.  Those are front office decisions.  Coaches may be able to pick among the choices they are given by the front office, but the front office writes the list. 

(03-27-2020, 04:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have no idea what this means.  Please give me a specific example of a move Marvin made that would help the team lose less but not win.

Meh, if I've learned anything over the years it's this: trying to change someone's mind on a message board is nearly futile.

You like Marvin's teams; I didn't. I'm willing to leave it at that, content in my belief that Marvin's futility in big games and the playoffs supports my opinion . Just as I'm sure whatever reason you liked ending every year without a title sums up your belief.

End of the day, though, what's not arguable is that Zac had very little to do with the team he fielded in his first season, outside of coaching them.

(03-27-2020, 04:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So Marvin ran the 2019 draft?


This is getting silly.


Neither Zac nor Marvin determined who we signed in free agency.  Those are front office decisions.  Coaches may be able to pick among the choices they are given by the front office, but the front office writes the list. 

Agreed, it is silly to say Zac built the 2019 team.



I do agree it's not just the coach, but from what we've heard over the years, it's a combination of everyone. And part of everyone was Marvin and the coaches Marvin brought in. I think part of the reason our drafts went downhill in recent years was a mix of Marvin's coordinators and position coaches picking out bad players.

That may not change. Or it may. We've got 2-4 years to determine how Zac and staff draft.

Either way, I'm happy with the progress we made the second half of the season and all of this off-season. I'm sorry you're less than excited.

(03-27-2020, 04:49 PM)Benton Wrote: Meh, if I've learned anything over the years it's this: trying to change someone's mind on a message board is nearly futile.

You like Marvin's teams; I didn't. I'm willing to leave it at that, content in my belief that Marvin's futility in big games and the playoffs supports my opinion . Just as I'm sure whatever reason you liked ending every year without a title sums up your belief.

End of the day, though, what's not arguable is that Zac had very little to do with the team he fielded in his first season, outside of coaching them.



Agreed, it is silly to say Zac built the 2019 team.



I do agree it's not just the coach, but from what we've heard over the years, it's a combination of everyone. And part of everyone was Marvin and the coaches Marvin brought in. I think part of the reason our drafts went downhill in recent years was a mix of Marvin's coordinators and position coaches picking out bad players.

That may not change. Or it may. We've got 2-4 years to determine how Zac and staff draft.

Either way, I'm happy with the progress we made the second half of the season and all of this off-season. I'm sorry you're less than excited.

(03-27-2020, 04:49 PM)Benton Wrote: Just as I'm sure whatever reason you liked ending every year without a title sums up your belief.

At least I was never happy with 2-14 like you are.

(03-27-2020, 05:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: At least I was never happy with 2-14 like you are.

Where in the hell did Benton say he was happy with 2-14???

(03-27-2020, 05:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Where in the hell did Benton say he was happy with 2-14???

Link to me ever saying I liked ending every year without a title or STFU.

All I did was flip his lame strawman argument back on himself.

Don't you think it is kind of silly to blame our 2-14 record last year on a coach who only had 6 losing seasons in 16 years and never won fewer than 4 games?