Eh, not sure I agree with the Dalton is awesome if clean narrative. Dude has thrown his fair share of balls in the dirt.

(03-27-2020, 07:49 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Eh, not sure I agree with the Dalton is awesome if clean narrative.  Dude has thrown his fair share of balls in the dirt.

Of course, the point is Burrow doesn't need a clean pocket, like at all...

(03-27-2020, 07:03 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I agree that Dalton has never been able to carry a team on his own. He's no Russell Wilson.

I've defended Dalton in the past, but it's really hard to after the past few years. I still maintain that he's a good QB when he has a good team around him. He's accurate. He's somewhat mobile. He has good vision. He's proven he can win more than lose.

But... he has not and never will be an elite QB because of the reasons outlined in this thread. His pocket awareness is not good--I would argue it's average. He gets rattled when things break down. He doesn't have elite vision. He doesn't have elite arm strength--which has shown on his Hail Mary throws.

I think his accuracy has been pretty good on short, medium and deep routes though. His deep ball has gotten better over time. That said, he's been inconsistent and thrown costly interceptions.

There's always been a yeah, but with Dalton.

Burrow clearly has elite traits and will elevate this team. I'm excited to have him.

But I'm grateful for what Andy has done as well. He did very well as a 2nd round pick. I feel bad for the guy, but that's life.

Dalton can't be having a good year. He get's benched at the end of last year on his birthday (start of the year in my book). Over time he realizes his team will be drafting his replacement with the number 1 pick. The free agency market proves that he has very little trade value, meaning he will likely have to take a pay cut. He now has to come to terms with quite possibly not having a starting gig next year. To top it off, he just started a restaurant and it can't be doing too well with this Carona-virus. Ouch. Not a good year so far. Wish him well. He's a good guy.

The chicken place thing turned out to be false. Different Andy Dalton.

Watched qb school for a bit. He has great content and I recommend subscribing. Brett Kollman is my favorite content creator and his breakdowns are really informative. Burrow is disgusting and I liked how Brett described how he sees the field. And he is really fun to listen to.

(03-27-2020, 08:02 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Watched qb school for a bit. He has great content and I recommend subscribing. Brett Kollman is my favorite content creator and his breakdowns are really informative. Burrow is disgusting and I liked how Brett described how he sees the field. And he is really fun to listen to.

Disgustingly good, I like it.

(03-27-2020, 07:49 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Eh, not sure I agree with the Dalton is awesome if clean narrative.  Dude has thrown his fair share of balls in the dirt.

I'm not sure if you were replying to me or just commenting. To clarify I never said Dalton was awesome when surrounded by a good team. I said he was good. I think he's an above average QB, slightly. He definitely isn't in the top 10 though. He certainly has weaknesses. He's not the kind of QB that prevents you from pulling the trigger on drafting an elite QB; he's a starter that can win when surrounded by a good team.

(03-27-2020, 08:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The chicken place thing turned out to be false. Different Andy Dalton.

Oh really? I guess I didn't follow that thread for too long. Still a bad year for him. 

--

Sorry for side-tracking this thread and talking about Dalton. I saw the first video already, but hadn't seen the 2nd video. Really enjoyed watching the second video. Burrow has so many elite characteristics. I can't wait to see him next year. I'm not expecting greatness out of the gate. It takes time to adjust to the pro game and develop chemistry with the team. But man, he looks the part. By year two I could see him putting up some huge numbers and racking up the wins. His strengths are Dalton's weaknesses. I don't really see many weaknesses with Burrow. Maybe he should slide more to prevent injury? He's inexperienced in the pros? What else can I think of? Not much.

(03-27-2020, 08:36 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Sorry for side-tracking this thread and talking about Dalton. I saw the first video already, but hadn't seen the 2nd video. Really enjoyed watching the second video. Burrow has so many elite characteristics. I can't wait to see him next year. I'm not expecting greatness out of the gate. It takes time to adjust to the pro game and develop chemistry with the team. But man, he looks the part. By year two I could see him putting up some huge numbers and racking up the wins. His strengths are Dalton's weaknesses. I don't really see many weaknesses with Burrow. Maybe he should slide more to prevent injury? He's inexperienced in the pros? What else can I think of? Not much.

Hard to find a weakness with Burrow that is for sure. Even the not having a cannon for an arm thing sometimes can be disputed.

You can keep Justin Herbert and his cannon arm. I’ll take Joe Cool with the poise and crazy accuracy any day over a big arm.

Bengalsstripe18,

Just replying in general.

Dalton's "legacy" (if you want to call it that) will be as a middle of the pack starting QB who held down the fort for 9 seasons and had some good moments and some not so good. Not many of his defenders have strayed very far from this at any point over the last near-decade.

There's no reason to trash him now or revise history by saying he was always trash, etc. I for one have never been against upgrading the QB position. Problem is, for much of Dalton's career, we were picking in the late 20's. This is the first opportunity we've had to take a guy that looks like a sure-fire prospect, and I'm 100% on board. Just as I was with signing Peyton Manning when he was a free agent.

A lot of people on here had a tendency to want Dalton replaced when it made zero sense to do so or we weren't in a great position to do so. Those same people often exaggerate how bad Dalton is/was. Those people never thought Dalton was a middling QB and thought he was a CFL level QB or wanted to replace him with the likes of McCarron or Tyrod Taylor.

To sum it up, replacing Dalton with a magical "elite QB" always sounded nice, but some people on here acted like you could just pick one from a tree. Reality is that we're extremely fortunate to be in the position we're in right now.

(03-28-2020, 01:22 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Dalton's "legacy" (if you want to call it that) will be as a middle of the pack starting QB who held down the fort for 9 seasons and had some good moments and some not so good. Not many of his defenders have strayed very far from this at any point over the last near-decade.

There's no reason to trash him now or revise history by saying he was always trash, etc. I for one have never been against upgrading the QB position. Problem is, for much of Dalton's career, we were picking in the late 20's. This is the first opportunity we've had to take a guy that looks like a sure-fire prospect, and I'm 100% on board. Just as I was with signing Peyton Manning when he was a free agent.

A lot of people on here had a tendency to want Dalton replaced when it made zero sense to do so or we weren't in a great position to do so. Those same people often exaggerate how bad Dalton is/was. Those people never thought Dalton was a middling QB and thought he was a CFL level QB or wanted to replace him with the likes of McCarron or Tyrod Taylor.

To sum it up, replacing Dalton with a magical "elite QB" always sounded nice, but some people on here acted like you could just pick one from a tree. Reality is that we're extremely fortunate to be in the position we're in right now.

If you're gonna be the bottom of the barrel, this was a damn good time to do it.

Looks like 2021 will be a great year for the Bengals.... After of course the obligatory injury to our 1st rounder Burrow.... (ouch)

When — not if — Joe Burrow struggles at first in the NFL I hope people don’t panic because there’s no reason to do so. Joe will be a good player but one needs to understand the speed of the pro game, a new playbook, new teammates, and a new set of coaches who in this case lack experience.

(03-28-2020, 07:49 AM)EatonFan Wrote: Looks like 2021 will be a great year for the Bengals.... After of course the obligatory injury to our 1st rounder Burrow.... (ouch)

WTF would you write that?

(03-27-2020, 07:03 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I agree that Dalton has never been able to carry a team on his own. He's no Russell Wilson.

I've defended Dalton in the past, but it's really hard to after the past few years. I still maintain that he's a good QB when he has a good team around him. He's accurate. He's somewhat mobile. He has good vision. He's proven he can win more than lose.

But... he has not and never will be an elite QB because of the reasons outlined in this thread. His pocket awareness is not good--I would argue it's average. He gets rattled when things break down. He doesn't have elite vision. He doesn't have elite arm strength--which has shown on his Hail Mary throws.

I think his accuracy has been pretty good on short, medium and deep routes though. His deep ball has gotten better over time. That said, he's been inconsistent and thrown costly interceptions.

There's always been a yeah, but with Dalton.

Burrow clearly has elite traits and will elevate this team. I'm excited to have him.

But I'm grateful for what Andy has done as well. He did very well as a 2nd round pick. I feel bad for the guy, but that's life.

Dalton can't be having a good year. He get's benched at the end of last year on his birthday (start of the year in my book). Over time he realizes his team will be drafting his replacement with the number 1 pick. The free agency market proves that he has very little trade value, meaning he will likely have to take a pay cut. He now has to come to terms with quite possibly not having a starting gig next year. To top it off, he just started a restaurant and it can't be doing too well with this Carona-virus. Ouch. Not a good year so far. Wish him well. He's a good guy.

You guys crack me up...And I am not defending Dalton necessarily but you are comparing years of watching Dalton compared to some highlight clips of Burrow, even just a few games maybe...And I am not bashing Burrow here but he has not taken one snap in the NFL, none of you have a clue of how he will react under the lights and on the big stage!!   I am sure that if you go and look at Dalton's tape from his senior year you will see the same attributes from him, as a matter of fact if you go watch the Rose Bowl when he beat Russell Wilson and Wisconsin you will see these same attributes.  You guys are making Burrow into a GOD before he even gets on an NFL field.  I hope is the next coming but do not be surprised if/when he struggles against the big boys.

(03-28-2020, 09:51 AM)spazz70 Wrote: You guys crack me up...And I am not defending Dalton necessarily but you are comparing years of watching Dalton compared to some highlight clips of Burrow, even just a few games maybe...And I am not bashing Burrow here but he has not taken one snap in the NFL, none of you have a clue of how he will react under the lights and on the big stage!!   I am sure that if you go and look at Dalton's tape from his senior year you will see the same attributes from him, as a matter of fact if you go watch the Rose Bowl when he beat Russell Wilson and Wisconsin you will see these same attributes.  You guys are making Burrow into a GOD before he even gets on an NFL field.  I hope is the next coming but do not be surprised if/when he struggles against the big boys.

Great post — and I thank you for some much needed realism.

(03-28-2020, 09:42 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: When — not if — Joe Burrow struggles at first in the NFL I hope people don’t panic because there’s no reason to do so. Joe will be a good player but one needs to understand the speed of the pro game, a new playbook, new teammates, and a new set of coaches who in this case lack experience.

You have no idea if he’ll struggle. Mayfield didn’t his rookie season, and Burrow is better than he is.

(03-28-2020, 09:51 AM)spazz70 Wrote: You guys crack me up...And I am not defending Dalton necessarily but you are comparing years of watching Dalton compared to some highlight clips of Burrow, even just a few games maybe...And I am not bashing Burrow here but he has not taken one snap in the NFL, none of you have a clue of how he will react under the lights and on the big stage!!   I am sure that if you go and look at Dalton's tape from his senior year you will see the same attributes from him, as a matter of fact if you go watch the Rose Bowl when he beat Russell Wilson and Wisconsin you will see these same attributes.  You guys are making Burrow into a GOD before he even gets on an NFL field.  I hope is the next coming but do not be surprised if/when he struggles against the big boys.

We’re not making him into anything. He had the best season for a college QB ever. He earned all the hype.

(03-28-2020, 10:36 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We’re not making him into anything. He had the best season for a college QB ever. He earned all the hype.

What are your criteria for a successful rookie season for Joe Burrow? 

(03-28-2020, 10:36 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We’re not making him into anything. He had the best season for a college QB ever. He earned all the hype.

Yes, many people are making him in to the next coming when he has not even seen an NFL field.  Just go read this thread and many others.  There are no guarantees in the NFL.  Joe Burrow is 23 years old....has been at 2 schools....graduated from Ohio State...Could not win the starting job at OSU...Had one fantastic year and one average year...Odds are that everything fell into place at the right time as opposed to him being the greatest QB to enter the NFL in the last 10 years because of his gaudy stats on a very talented team.  Again, I hope he comes in and lights the NFL on fire but my expectations are tempered.  I am a huge OSU fan and followed the team and him for 3 years very closely.  He did get injured one year and that took him out of competition for the starting gig but he never really showed enough to be "the guy" at OSU.  One year does not make a player.  I am sorry if you do not like my point of view but I am just not going to be the rah rah guy thinking that one player is going to carry this franchise to the next level even though I hope it does.