(03-28-2020, 09:39 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Stats prove he's an upgrade 

 
No they don't.

______________Vigil____Bynes
starts/year.......... 9.3 ......... 5.2
tckls/game.......... 5.5 ......... 3.7
QB hits/game..... .13 ......... .12
PD/game........... .259 ........ .257

(03-28-2020, 11:20 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This may sound odd, but a better rush defense will make it easier to pass defense.  Like I said, 3rd and 9 vs. 3rd and 2.

I seriously doubt that Dre should be on the side of better pass coverage.  And we didn't lose a safety for Vonn Bell.  He was a plus acquisition.  Dennard for Alexander is a tough one.  I really liked Dennard, but he would have commanded roughly $4-6 million more per year to retain than adding the younger, and more durable, Alexander.  Bynes is an overall superior player to Vigil.  

One thing that is often discounted when comparing player stats to player stats is how did that player's team fare with them?  Waynes, Bell, Bynes, Alexander, and Reader all came from playoff teams.  What did Vigil and Dre do in the past few years?  When the game is on  the line, opposing teams targeted them.  No longer.  

It wasn't robbing Peter to pay Paul.  It was cutting Peter because he couldn't get the job done in the only category that matters:  wins.  Paul has a better resume and therefor got the job.  Will it pay off?  I sure hope so, but you need to look beyond someone's PFF ratings and think about game situations and overall making plays to help the team.  

Yep, stop the run and get the Offense in 2nd and 3rd and longs, no Offense likes this.

On the other hand no Defense likes getting ran on.

Nor should any fan like seeing his team get ran on.

(03-28-2020, 11:49 AM)Wyche Wrote: After looking at the haul after it's most likely done, I see a couple of points to be made about last season. First off, iirc, we had barely gotten our defensive coaching staff assembled before the combine. That's probably why we saw a bunch of former players familiar to the coaches. There wasn't much time to figure out much of a FA targeting strategy, plus there hadn't been many cuts to the current roster, if any. Second, it kind of looks like last year was a wasted roster evaluation to the schemes they wanted to run kinda year.

Now, it looks as though there was a definite and well thought out strategy as to who they targeted and they got aggressive in getting it done. Well done I say. The only question that remains is will it all come together and pay off, and will the coaching "look better" as a result of acquiring personnel better suited to their vision? Can't knock em for trying.

True that Wyche, they have a plan clearly and have had a full Offseason to plan and build the new roster.

We haven't even Drafted yet, I am excited seeing the team make big moves for once and having a clear plan.

We can judge Zac from here on out which will be nice. Pretty hard to judge him with mostly Marv's roster last year.

Same with Lou.

(03-30-2020, 10:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote:  
No they don't.

______________Vigil____Bynes
starts/year.......... 9.3 ......... 5.2
tckls/game.......... 5.5 ......... 3.7
QB hits/game..... .13 ......... .12
PD/game........... .259 ........ .257

Thanks for the meaningless stats Fred.

Look at what Ravens fans are saying about losing Bynes, then look at just you saying about losing Vigil...

It is only you man, only you that is sad about losing Vigil.

(03-30-2020, 03:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is only you man, only you that is sad about losing Vigil.

I am not sad about losing Vigil.  I am sad because we did not get an upgrade and may have even gotten worse at the position.

(03-31-2020, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not sad about losing Vigil.  I am sad because we did not get an upgrade and may have even gotten worse at the position.

Weird how you're about the only one who thinks this.

(03-31-2020, 10:48 AM)McC Wrote: Weird how you're about the only one who thinks this.

Yeah, Ravens fans know a thing or two about good LB play, and I’ve seen several say they were bummed to lose him. They actually watched every snap the guy played last year...

(03-31-2020, 10:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, Ravens fans know a thing or two about good LB play, and I’ve seen several say they were bummed to lose him. They actually watched every snap the guy played last year...

If I use your assumption (not fact) about the Ravens fans, I guess you are saying Bengals fans like you don't know a lot about LB play making Bengals fans and your analysis of Vigil useless??????????????? 

(03-31-2020, 11:01 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If I use your assumption (not fact) about the Ravens fans, I guess you are saying Bengals fans like you don't know a lot about LB play making Bengals fans and your analysis of Vigil useless??????????????? 

What I am saying is listen to the fans that post stats and facts to back up their opinions.

BTW where did you access this UNANIMOUSE opinion of ALL Raven fans?  I'd like to see it for myself.

(03-31-2020, 11:20 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What I am saying is listen to the fans that post stats and facts to back up their opinions.

BTW where did you access this UNANIMOUSE opinion of ALL Raven fans?  I'd like to see it for myself.

You are asking wrong member the question? I was responding to a post from Nico.

(03-31-2020, 11:01 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If I use your assumption (not fact) about the Ravens fans, I guess you are saying Bengals fans like you don't know a lot about LB play making Bengals fans and your analysis of Vigil useless??????????????? 

What a bizarre and completely uncalled for way to insult someone.

(03-31-2020, 12:18 PM)McC Wrote: What a bizarre and completely uncalled for way to insult someone.

How so?

I was mocking his assumption Ravens fans are smarter than Bengals fans because they have great LB play.

Lighten up, we are in a pandemic and this board is all we have left of almost any sport.

Did you see the smirk Shirley?     

(03-31-2020, 10:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, Ravens fans know a thing or two about good LB play, and I’ve seen several say they were bummed to lose him. They actually watched every snap the guy played last year

The former teams discussion forum will usually tell you the kind of player you are getting. Baltimore fans are not happy. The fans don't sugar coat it

(03-31-2020, 04:42 PM)WhoDey Wrote: The former teams discussion forum will usually tell you the kind of player you are getting. 

No they don't.

Most Bengal fans were glad to get rid of Justin Smith, and they thought Whitworth should be moved to guard because he could not handle speed rushers, and Leon Hall was too slow to play CB, and Peko was total trash.

Meanwhile after the 2013 season Vincent Rey was a great LB who should have been starting.

Many times fans are not that good of a source regarding how good their players are.

(03-31-2020, 05:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No they don't.

Most Bengal fans were glad to get rid of Justin Smith, and they thought Whitworth should be moved to guard because he could not handle speed rushers, and Leon Hall was too slow to play CB, and Peko was total trash.

Meanwhile after the 2013 season Vincent Rey was a great LB who should have been starting.

Many times fans are not that good of a source regarding how good their players are.

I said "usually". not EVERYTIME. I would trust the knowledge from a forum, rather than a fan off the street. Must be rough for anyone that has to live with you.

(03-31-2020, 11:01 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If I use your assumption (not fact) about the Ravens fans, I guess you are saying Bengals fans like you don't know a lot about LB play making Bengals fans and your analysis of Vigil useless??????????????? 

Nonsense. We are all too familiar with BAD LB play here. I said Baltimore fans know about GOOD LB play. They’ve seen more of it than us, that’s for sure.

(03-30-2020, 10:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote:  
No they don't.

______________Vigil____Bynes
starts/year.......... 9.3 ......... 5.2
tckls/game.......... 5.5 ......... 3.7
QB hits/game..... .13 ......... .12
PD/game........... .259 ........ .257

Fred
Have you asked yourself why Vigil was able to.start so many 
Games the last few years ?
Let me give a clue .... (it's not because he was  good either )
Follow me here 
The Bengals front office never really bothered to upgrade 
His position. LB is not positon they haven't drafted high 
Since PJ Dawson or Keith Rivers .I could be wrong 
Vigil was handed the job the last few seasons. 
Really what LB drafted or undrafted, or free agent was going
To.come in pre 2020 and send Vigil to.the bench ?
The Bengals were never ones to commit big $$$$ in free agency until this off season ....until THIS SEASON 
Guess what Fred.....THEY SIGNED A BACKUP LB'ER FROM A 
GOOD RAVENS DEFENSE THAT AMOUNTED TO VIGIL SIGNING WITH A BOTTOM DWELLING CONTENDER THIS YEARS
I told.you Vigil.couldn't even start for.the Ravens 
WhIle your looking at stats look at the PFF grades they gave Bynes and Vigil 

(03-31-2020, 11:20 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What I am saying is listen to the fans that post stats and facts to back up their opinions.

BTW where did you access this UNANIMOUSE opinion of ALL Raven fans?  I'd like to see it for myself.

You're stats are a joke. Bynes wasn't even a starter because he played for a good team and Vigil was a starter because he played for the worst team in the nfl. Give some details with those generic worthless stats. Vigil played 61 snaps per game. Bynes played 32 snaps per game. Adjusting for snaps 

Tackles    ..... 5.5 to 7
QB hits  .....  13 to 23
PD ............. 259 to 488

(04-01-2020, 02:22 AM)wolverine515151 Wrote: You're stats are a joke. Bynes wasn't even a starter because he played for a good team and Vigil was a starter because he played for the worst team in the nfl.

Bynes could never keep a starting job for teams with poor defenses like the Cards and Lions.

(04-01-2020, 02:22 AM)wolverine515151 Wrote: You're stats are a joke. Bynes wasn't even a starter because he played for a good team and Vigil was a starter because he played for the worst team in the nfl. Give some details with those generic worthless stats. Vigil played 61 snaps per game. Bynes played 32 snaps per game. Adjusting for snaps 

Tackles    ..... 5.5 to 7
QB hits  .....  13 to 23
PD ............. 259 to 488

Those are career numbers , not just last season.

(04-01-2020, 12:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bynes could never keep a starting job for teams with poor defenses like the Cards and Lions.



Those are career numbers , not just last season.

At the time we signed Bynes we had 2 linebackers under contract. I think it’s safe to say we need bodies at positions. I also think it’s safe to say we will bring in at least 2 more via the draft, free agency or trade.

Bynes was a decent get when we signed him. I don’t think anyone is making him to be all pro.

Dead horse, meet Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(04-01-2020, 12:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bynes could never keep a starting job for teams with poor defenses like the Cards and Lions.



Those are career numbers , not just last season.

Fred,
The bottom line here is that we fans were just tired of Vigil and any other of the LBers on this roster, PERIOD! Too many times, I saw Vigil either tackling someone 8 yds down the field, or allowing someone to catch the ball 10 yds down the field and then tackling, or just missing a tackle altogether. It just got old real quick. I don't need any stats to verify what my eyes have watched for years. Sure, the guy made a few splash plays every so often; but, for the most part, the negative outweighed the positive by far.
It's just time to give some outside FA's and or draft choices a chance here.

What's the reason why he couldn't find a very lucrative contract as compared to most of the high end LBers on the market?
He wasn't a highly sought after guy for a larger contract.
There were several LBers signed before he was.
That tells you everything you need to know right there doesn't it?