(03-27-2020, 05:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I thought the point you were making was that the Bengals don't need more LBs because their DEs are basically 3-4 OLBs.
If that was your point, then yes I'm arguing because the skill set of an off-ball LB is different than that of an edge rusher, which is what a 3-4 OLB mostly is used for.

That is my point to a point, but are you saying that Hubbard, Dunlap and Lawson are not edge rushers? 

Our off the ball LB's are Pratt, Bynes and Evans.

If we could get rid of Dalton that would be HUGE.

(03-27-2020, 11:11 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: If we could get rid of Dalton that would be HUGE.

At this point, it seems like getting rid of him is a necessity.  They have no choice, right?  

(03-27-2020, 05:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is my point to a point, but are you saying that Hubbard, Dunlap and Lawson are not edge rushers? 

Our off the ball LB's are Pratt, Bynes and Evans.

No, I'm saying that Hubbard, Dunlap, and Lawson ARE edge rushers. They shouldn't be considered LBs in a traditional sense, and they aren't good at dropping into coverage. And yes, Hubbard used to be a safety in high school but that was many years (and pounds) ago.

As you said, the only off-ball LBs the Bengals really have are Pratt, Bynes, and Evans. 
They need 1-2 more.

(03-28-2020, 10:49 AM)ochocincos Wrote: No, I'm saying that Hubbard, Dunlap, and Lawson ARE edge rushers. They shouldn't be considered LBs in a traditional sense, and they aren't good at dropping into coverage. And yes, Hubbard used to be a safety in high school but that was many years (and pounds) ago.

As you said, the only off-ball LBs the Bengals really have are Pratt, Bynes, and Evans. 
They need 1-2 more.

Wouldn't mind if the lineup went like this in the front 7
DE Dunlap 
NT Reader
RE Atkins
 
LOLB Hubbard 
LILB Pratt/Bynes
RILB Queen/Pratt
ROLB Lawson 

That's hoping Queen falls to 33 of course. If not then hopefully a RT in Andrew Thomas from UGA or Austin Jackson from USC at 33 then LB Troy Dye from Oregon in the 3rd

(03-26-2020, 07:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes sir. I wouldn't put 3-4 End out of the question now with us moving to a 3-4 hybrid. Epenesa sure would be awesome.

Atkins - Reader - Epenesa

Hubbard - Pratt - Bynes - Dunlap

WJ3 - Bell - Bates - Waynes

Some of the expert drafts have Epenesa falling to the 2nd round. He's 6'5", 275 lbs and is athletic as hell. He scored 1,000 points in Basketball and threw the discus.
He's got the size to play end in the 4-3 or 3-4 according to scouts.
And, he's an all out effort guy just like Hubbard. I certainly wouldn't mind another "Hubbard Like" guy on the defense for sure.

I love that defense man. The front seven all of a sudden becomes something to reckon with for teams with that lineup. Now, there's also other players that would supposedly be there too such as Davidson from Auburn, Elliott from Missouri, or Madubuike from A&M. And, that's for the Bengals to decide which that player upgrades their D Line and could make them elite.

If it's going to be on the DLine I'd always go with the guy who can pass rush. They got Dunlap in the 2nd after he fell to them.
I see Epenesa as the same type of guy.

They could go so many damn directions it's not even funny right now. That's why I'd be okay with them trading the pick for a 3rd rounder if possible. There will be so much good talent 10 picks back.

(03-27-2020, 05:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I thought the point you were making was that the Bengals don't need more LBs because their DEs are basically 3-4 OLBs.
If that was your point, then yes I'm arguing because the skill set of an off-ball LB is different than that of an edge rusher, which is what a 3-4 OLB mostly is used for.

agreed, although I'd like to think a better pass rush as well as improvement at the interior defense would equate to better coverage across the board defensively.   Also hoping for some progression from Pratt, and Bynes being an improvement over Vigil.   

(03-29-2020, 07:21 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: agreed, although I'd like to think a better pass rush as well as improvement at the interior defense would equate to better coverage across the board defensively.   Also hoping for some progression from Pratt, and Bynes being an improvement over Vigil.   

I really believe that all of the things that you are looking for, will happen.  DJ Reader's presence will open up opportunities for our pass rushers to do what they do best, as well as clog the interior running lanes, making it easier for our LBs to make quick stops in the run game.  

I think that pass coverage is going to look just fine, as QBs will likely be forced to make rushed and ill advised throws, allowing our DBs to take advantage.  Even the best coverage guys are going to give up plays, when forced to cover for 5 seconds on every play.  It's just the nature of the game. But, taking away the obvious and easy stuff in the middle of the field, forcing the action to the edges is a great strategy.

(03-28-2020, 10:49 AM)ochocincos Wrote: No, I'm saying that Hubbard, Dunlap, and Lawson ARE edge rushers. They shouldn't be considered LBs in a traditional sense, and they aren't good at dropping into coverage. And yes, Hubbard used to be a safety in high school but that was many years (and pounds) ago.

As you said, the only off-ball LBs the Bengals really have are Pratt, Bynes, and Evans. 
They need 1-2 more.

I agree, just saying we aren't as bad off as some say.

Hubbard still is good in coverage saw him just last season dropping into coverage and he did well.

(03-29-2020, 03:23 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Some of the expert drafts have Epenesa falling to the 2nd round. He's 6'5", 275 lbs and is athletic as hell. He scored 1,000 points in Basketball and threw the discus.
He's got the size to play end in the 4-3 or 3-4 according to scouts.
And, he's an all out effort guy just like Hubbard. I certainly wouldn't mind another "Hubbard Like" guy on the defense for sure.

I love that defense man. The front seven all of a sudden becomes something to reckon with for teams with that lineup. Now, there's also other players that would supposedly be there too such as Davidson from Auburn, Elliott from Missouri, or Madubuike from A&M. And, that's for the Bengals to decide which that player upgrades their D Line and could make them elite.

If it's going to be on the DLine I'd always go with the guy who can pass rush. They got Dunlap in the 2nd after he fell to them.
I see Epenesa as the same type of guy.

They could go so many damn directions it's not even funny right now. That's why I'd be okay with them trading the pick for a 3rd rounder if possible. There will be so much good talent 10 picks back.

Sure hope Epenesa falls to us at 33, damn the Defense would be stacked, completely different from a year ago.

Pass rushers affect the game more than any other position cause they affect the most important position in sports.

(03-30-2020, 03:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sure hope Epenesa falls to us at 33, damn the Defense would be stacked, completely different from a year ago.

Pass rushers affect the game more than any other position cause they affect the most important position in sports.

This is true, Nate.  Let's not forget that in order to get the full effectiveness of having good pass rushers, you must be able to shut down the run, forcing teams into a "pass first" mentality.  The best way to accomplish this is to be strong up the middle, and the Bengals did just that.  

By replacing a mere, average NT, with one of the best in the game, along with with signing a tough veteran like Bynes at LB, and bringing in a Superstar Safety in Vonn Bell, the Bengals have transformed the defense in a way that couldn't have been better had I planned it myself.  Being strong up the middle will make flowing to contain the edges so much easier and effective.

(03-30-2020, 07:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This is true, Nate.  Let's not forget that in order to get the full effectiveness of having good pass rushers, you must be able to shut down the run, forcing teams into a "pass first" mentality.  The best way to accomplish this is to be strong up the middle, and the Bengals did just that.  

By replacing a mere, average NT, with one of the best in the game, along with with signing a tough veteran like Bynes at LB, and bringing in a Superstar Safety in Vonn Bell, the Bengals have transformed the defense in a way that couldn't have been better had I planned it myself.  Being strong up the middle will make flowing to contain the edges so much easier and effective.

You also need a lead... I think people that are writing Geno's epitaph are gonna be shocked at his performance again if the team can score more than 16 points a game this year.

(03-30-2020, 07:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This is true, Nate.  Let's not forget that in order to get the full effectiveness of having good pass rushers, you must be able to shut down the run, forcing teams into a "pass first" mentality.  The best way to accomplish this is to be strong up the middle, and the Bengals did just that.  

By replacing a mere, average NT, with one of the best in the game, along with with signing a tough veteran like Bynes at LB, and bringing in a Superstar Safety in Vonn Bell, the Bengals have transformed the defense in a way that couldn't have been better had I planned it myself.  Being strong up the middle will make flowing to contain the edges so much easier and effective.

Thank you for nailing it Sunset, all true. Man, I like the sound of being a great run stopping Defense.

Gets on my nerves when teams just run the ball at will on us, like really bad.

(03-30-2020, 09:19 PM)jason Wrote: You also need a lead... I think people that are writing Geno's epitaph are gonna be shocked at his performance again if the team can score more than 16 points a game this year.

How many points did Burrow average with LSU last season?

I think we can score more than 16...

(03-30-2020, 09:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thank you for nailing it Sunset, all true. Man, I like the sound of being a great run stopping Defense.

Gets on my nerves when teams just run the ball at will on us, like really bad.

Personally I'm a big fan of the check down to a TE that goes for 25 yards on 2nd and 7... Especially when there are 2-3 missed tackles within those 25 yards.

(03-30-2020, 09:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: How many points did Burrow average with LSU last season?

I think we can score more than 16...

It's not necessarily Burrow I'm worried about. It's the health of his weapons, and the growth of the guy calling the offense.

(03-30-2020, 09:41 PM)jason Wrote: Personally I'm a big fan of the check down to a TE that goes for 25 yards on 2nd and 7... Especially when there are 2-3 missed tackles within those 25 yards.

Yeah, sure makes me feel good lol

Edit: Adding decent tacklers should help in this...

(03-30-2020, 09:43 PM)jason Wrote: It's not necessarily Burrow I'm worried about. It's the health of his weapons, and the growth of the guy calling the offense.

And that is the reasonable worry.

AJ and Ross just haven't staid healthy and Zac was a terrible play caller last season.

I think if we have a decent draft this team might get to around the .500 mark (or possibly better if we win a few close ones)

(03-30-2020, 09:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And that is the reasonable worry.

AJ and Ross just haven't staid healthy and Zac was a terrible play caller last season.

As much as we need LBs, there is also a need at WR.  The more I think about AJ and Ross, the more I think the second round pick might be a good spot to land a stud WR if one is available.