(04-05-2020, 09:44 AM)Sled21 Wrote: C'mon, Zac is  a quick learner. I'm sure he realizes he cannot count on John Ross by now....

I'm just saying that is what is interesting about our last few years of pin-balling back and forth between blame on coaches and players.


Going into 2019 - Marvin stunk and we got a coach that can get the most out of Dalton and Ross.

Going into 2020 - That roster stunk and ZT will be better when he has HIS roster and not Marvin's leftovers.

(04-04-2020, 06:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The personnel yes, but ZT is still a huge question mark.  Remember, a  year ago we were hyped to see him resurrect Dalton and Ross and get out offense in the top 10 at least.  Like I said, it's entirely possible we go into 2021 excited as hell to see what Burrow can finally do with a real offensive coach, etc.  We have really been going back and forth on calling out the players OR the coaches when things don't go right.

2020 is setting up to be a sink or swim year for the coaches, just like 2018 was.

This is not even a little bit true.

(04-05-2020, 11:42 AM)McC Wrote: This is not even a little bit true.

Really?  We went all-in on FAs and we are getting the best QB to come out of college since Luck (rookie year and all, but still) and AJ Green should be back and Jonah should be healthy and so on.  If this team doesn't win 7+ games or even make the playoffs I think the coaches are going to be thrown under at least one bus.

(04-05-2020, 12:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Really?  We went all-in on FAs and we are getting the best QB to come out of college since Luck (rookie year and all, but still) and AJ Green should be back and Jonah should be healthy and so on.  If this team doesn't win 7+ games or even make the playoffs I think the coaches are going to be thrown under at least one bus.

I don’t think so. At least not after this year. I think zac gets at least 2-3 more years. If he doesn’t do much with burrow then he’s gone. Even with this f/a class and a good draft, the bengals still need a solid offseason next year to round out the roster.

They may not need as big a splash in free agency next year, but there will still be some needs to address.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(04-05-2020, 01:11 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I don’t think so. At least not after this year. I think zac gets at least 2-3 more years. If he doesn’t do much with burrow then he’s gone. Even with this f/a class and a good draft, the bengals still need a solid offseason next year to round out the roster.

They may not need as big a splash in free agency next year, but there will still be some nerds to address.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's very unMcvay like...

(04-05-2020, 01:11 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I don’t think so.  At least not after this year.  I think zac gets at least 2-3 more years.  If he doesn’t do much with burrow then he’s gone.  Even with this f/a class and a good draft, the bengals still need a solid offseason next year to round out the roster.

They may not need as big a splash in free agency next year, but there will still be some nerds to address.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Logically I get this, but at the same time if Mike Brown is willing to get free agents and we have Burrow under his rookie contract and he's as good as advertised we would have people lining up for the HC slot.  If ZT doesn't get it together it should be happy trails, because this could be the most attractive Cincy has looked as a coaching spot in the past 30+ years.

Hopefully he gets it together, but I'm all about getting a new HC before our roster is DOA like last time.


If Burrow is awesome and Mike Brown has done a 180 on free agency I say we start advertising and see who is interested...well, we should the second ZT slips IF IF IF he does.  That's just business for ya.

(04-05-2020, 12:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Really?  We went all-in on FAs and we are getting the best QB to come out of college since Luck (rookie year and all, but still) and AJ Green should be back and Jonah should be healthy and so on.  If this team doesn't win 7+ games or even make the playoffs I think the coaches are going to be thrown under at least one bus.

Maybe next year but not this year.

(04-05-2020, 01:35 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe next year but not this year.

Wait, do you think I mean right now?  Honestly if they fired ZT after the first year I wouldn't have been too terribly upset, but I do think they at least give him 2020.  He's got to make some big improvements though.

(04-05-2020, 01:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Wait, do you think I mean right now?  Honestly if they fired ZT after the first year I wouldn't have been too terribly upset, but I do think they at least give him 2020.  He's got to make some big improvements though.

Let me clarify.  Didn't think I needed to but anyway...

He will not be fired for 2020 results.  He could, however, be fired for unacceptable results in 2021.  But it will never be an issue.  2020 starts our rise to contenderism and a year from now, many people will be eating their words.

The Bengals are already better than they were last year and the draft is still to come.

(04-05-2020, 01:46 PM)McC Wrote: Let me clarify.  Didn't think I needed to but anyway...

He will not be fired for 2020 results.  He could, however, be fired for unacceptable results in 2021.  But it will never be an issue.  2020 starts our rise to contenderism and a year from now, many people will be eating their words.

The Bengals are already better than they were last year and the draft is still to come.

Agree,

I've said it, along with others in 2 or 3 other threads. I'm not looking so much at a wins total as a measure of success as I am a different feeling team.

Lets face it, besides a couple games here a little stretch there, this team hasn't looked good since mid 2015 ! It wasn't just last season even though it was the worst. ZT did not inherit anything close to a good team despite what some hint at.

I wanna see a team that looks like they belong in the NFL, see some chemistry. See some games where 7/8's of our possessions on O aren't 3 and outs. Be able to get some stops on 3rd down and so on.

But I'd still say it will be 2021 before they can work all the kinks out of the mess he started with.

(04-05-2020, 02:24 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,

I've said it, along with others in 2 or 3 other threads. I'm not looking so much at a wins total as a measure of success as I am a different feeling team.

Lets face it, besides a couple games here a little stretch there, this team hasn't looked good since mid 2015 ! It wasn't just last season even though it was the worst. ZT did not inherit anything close to a good team despite what some hint at.

I wanna see a team that looks like they belong in the NFL, see some chemistry. See some games where 7/8's of our possessions on O aren't 3 and outs. Be able to get some stops on 3rd down and so on.

But I'd still say it will be 2021 before they can work all the kinks out of the mess he started with.

Indeed. I’m hoping that the influx of new players energizes some of our veterans like geno, Carlos and even A.J. I hope younger guys like bates, Boyd and Jonah get a sense of least being to compete in the post season.

We will probably never know what staff members zac couldn’t get because of the late hire. This year is totally up in the air. He deserves a “regular” off season before we start calling for his head


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(04-05-2020, 01:46 PM)McC Wrote: Let me clarify.  Didn't think I needed to but anyway...

He will not be fired for 2020 results.  He could, however, be fired for unacceptable results in 2021.  But it will never be an issue.  2020 starts our rise to contenderism and a year from now, many people will be eating their words.

The Bengals are already better than they were last year and the draft is still to come.

I think we make the playoffs next year and if we don't it's probably the fault of the coaching staff.  This roster is going to be very good...the coaching staff needs to be sure they aren't bringing it down. 

The 2019 team was ho hum and injured and we were 2-14.  2020 we have Burrow and a FA bonanza, the time to win starts now.  If ZT doesnt have it we can't just spend 2 years of Burrow's rookie contract spinning our wheels. 

(04-04-2020, 05:42 PM)McC Wrote: How much time do you really want to spend arguing what maybe used to be but is no longer?  What exactly is the point?  Does it in any way prove Burrow should not be the pick?  HELL NO.

All we need is a time machine in your scenario.  And for the life of me, I can't understand why you're even making this argument.  

Simple... no way Burrow came into last year as a Manning or a Luck, he was not even mentioned in 1st round at times a 2nd round pick... It is hard to go back in time and think of another QB that has went from somewhat obsure to #1 pick.. yes he has moved to #1 QB pick at same time some think there is no way you can;t draft him over trading back and adding either Herbert or Tua... I don't understand the other side of the argument that you can;t look at the other QBs plus what else you can get with extra picks.. I am not putting Burrow as an untouchable #1 and I am not alone out there with those that study and understand football better than us as a whole.   So if we trade him and still get a top flight QB and extra picks that add to this team I can understand.  If the Bengals decide his value is better than what is offered than ok.. 

The problem with trading the number 1 pick is who the Bengals have to start at QB.

Andy Dalton - Andy has had his chances and has proven to be average at best.
That means he needs a superior team around him for him to play well.
He also comes with a hefty price tag for his production.

Tua - Tua has all the athletic tools a QB needs. His problem is something he cannot control He gets hurt too much. He was hurt in HS and college.
Who in their right mind would take a chance he can make it through a career in the NFL without getting hurt. Too big of a gamble.

Justin Herbert - Justin has the prototypical body for NFL QB but something is missing. He does not have the it factor. If he did Oregon would have been playing for National Championship. He will be an average at best QB in the NFL. I would probably would rather keep Dalton than draft Herbert.

Jalen Hurt - Jalen will not be a successful QB in the NFL. He reminds me of Terrell Pryor from Ohio State.

The other guys are like lightning in a bottle. They may be great but I would not want to take a chance on them.

Bengals are not given a chance for a franchise QB very often. They need to take the obvious pick and have a QB at a low salary for 5 years. The extra cap room will help us build a great team around him.

(04-05-2020, 03:58 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Simple... no way Burrow came into last year as a Manning or a Luck, he was not even mentioned in 1st round at times a 2nd round pick... It is hard to go back in time and think of another QB that has went from somewhat obsure to #1 pick.. yes he has moved to #1 QB pick at same time some think there is no way you can;t draft him over trading back and adding either Herbert or Tua... I don't understand the other side of the argument that you can;t look at the other QBs plus what else you can get with extra picks.. I am not putting Burrow as an untouchable #1 and I am not alone out there with those that study and understand football better than us as a whole.   So if we trade him and still get a top flight QB and extra picks that add to this team I can understand.  If the Bengals decide his value is better than what is offered than ok.. 

Who cares about last year? We’re getting the Joe Burrow of the present. The one that just did all the things.

This obsession with worrying about where he was rated before all the things is weird. It’s ancient history.

(04-05-2020, 06:13 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: The problem with trading the number 1 pick is who the Bengals have to start at QB.

If we actually trade the #1 pick I say we cut Dalton and start Finley and just tank for Trevor.  Then again, we signed a bunch of FA guys so I doubt we do any of that, but imagine a buttload of picks and then BEST QB TO COME OUTTA COLLEGE SINCE BURROW/LUCK, for serious.

There is no guarantee a Heisman trophy winner succeeds in the NFL. Tebow and Manzel to name a few. I would highly consider trading to Miami for a haul of players and picks. I'm okay with sticking to Burrow, but that's the dice you are rolling.

(04-05-2020, 01:46 PM)McC Wrote: Let me clarify.  Didn't think I needed to but anyway...

He will not be fired for 2020 results.  He could, however, be fired for unacceptable results in 2021.  But it will never be an issue.  2020 starts our rise to contenderism and a year from now, many people will be eating their words.

The Bengals are already better than they were last year and the draft is still to come.

I am on the same page as unlikely Zac's job depends on 2020.

The only game changer is if his coaching decisions directly lead to 2 or 3 losses. If that happens and they lose 10 11 games I could see him being fired.

(04-05-2020, 09:55 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm just saying that is what is interesting about our last few years of pin-balling back and forth between blame on coaches and players.


Going into 2019 - Marvin stunk and we got a coach that can get the most out of Dalton and Ross.

Going into 2020 - That roster stunk and ZT will be better when he has HIS roster and not Marvin's leftovers.

Here's the reality of the matter:

1. Our roster is decent enough to be competitive this season.
2. Burrow is a huge upgrade over Dalton and will instantly make us better.
3. The current coaching staff is a huge question mark; we'll know more once the season starts. 
4. Marvin was a mediocre coach just like our QB of the past decade.  We have enough evidence of that based upon his regular season record and playoffs. 

(04-05-2020, 06:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Who cares about last year? We’re getting the Joe Burrow of the present. The one that just did all the things.

This obsession with worrying about where he was rated before all the things is weird. It’s ancient history.

The facts do show it is rare for a top #1 pick to be a HOF QB.

But, I think JB has a great shot at a minimum of being a great QB based on his skill set and his brains.

It would take a huge haul for Bengals FO to trade the pic and only way I think they consider it if they draft Burrow and then trade it to Miami after they draft Tua. 

I think the Bengals really want Burrow, but if guaranteed they were getting Tua and some great draft picks in addition they should consider it.
But me personally the Tua injury history scares the crap out of me, but NFL QB"s are protected a lot more than college QB;s.

Do relax Nico either way I think Bengals FO will make a good decision for this year and the future in this draft