(04-06-2020, 03:05 PM)TheSweetness Wrote: Right. Because you can't be really good and respected by DC without being deemed HOF bound. Forgot those 2 were mutually inclusive of each other. His numbers aren't HOF worthy at this point in his career. Especially with all the numbers from WR/TE around him.

Let me get this straight.  In a thread about Geno being on the all decade team, we shifted to AJ, which was the first derailment of the thread.  Okay, should AJ be on that team or not--not on topic but close.

Now, when you're challenged, you shift the goalposts and suddenly we're talking about HOF.  Let me know when you actually land on an argument so I can respond properly.

Also, wake me up when you realize that few positions on the football field are more reliant on other people than WR and then we can talk about this in proper context.

But anyway, back to Geno.  You remember him.  He was the topic of this thread.

How in the world does Tyreek Hill and Darren Sproles make it as PR over Hester?

'10-'19 PR
Hill: 4 TD, 11.9 AVG
Sproles: 5 TD, 9.9 AVG
Hester: 7 TD, 12.1 AVG

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Also Gore seems to have gotten in as a compiler, and Suh continues to be overrated.

(04-06-2020, 03:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How in the world does Tyreek Hill and Darren Sproles make it as PR over Hester?

'10-'19 PR
Hill: 4 TD, 11.9 AVG
Sproles: 5 TD, 9.9 AVG
Hester: 7 TD, 12.1 AVG

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Also Gore seems to have gotten in as a compiler, and Suh continues to be overrated.

Hester is probably not on it due to recentness bias, having not played in several years.  He's one of the great returners ever.

And Suh is the opposite.  To this day, he is still living off the glory of his first few years and not off the reality of his slide to average.

(04-06-2020, 03:12 PM)McC Wrote: Let me get this straight.  In a thread about Geno being on the all decade team, we shifted to AJ, which was the first derailment of the thread.  Okay, should AJ be on that team or not--not on topic but close.

Now, when you're challenged, you shift the goalposts and suddenly we're talking about HOF.  Let me know when you actually land on an argument so I can respond properly.

Also, wake me up when you realize that few positions on the football field are more reliant on other people than WR and then we can talk about this in proper context.

But anyway, back to Geno.  You remember him.  He was the topic of this thread.

Go back and read the 3rd and 5th posts of this thread (the ones I was responding to) then come back. But hey. You're all about context so you knew that right?

I agree this needs to get back to Geno's accomplishments though because he does deserve HOF consideration.

(04-06-2020, 01:17 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: NFL 2010s all-decade roster at nfl.com:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108338/article/tom-brady-aaron-donald-headline-nfls-2010s-alldecade-team

Who Dey for Geno!

Geno deserves it, him and Donald are the two best pass rushing DT's of the decade no question.

Hopefully with Reader next to him it will free him up to have his best season before he starts to go downhill.

My only concern is getting Reader just a little too late, we will see.

(04-06-2020, 03:12 PM)McC Wrote: Let me get this straight.  In a thread about Geno being on the all decade team, we shifted to AJ, which was the first derailment of the thread.  Okay, should AJ be on that team or not--not on topic but close.

Now, when you're challenged, you shift the goalposts and suddenly we're talking about HOF.  Let me know when you actually land on an argument so I can respond properly.

Also, wake me up when you realize that few positions on the football field are more reliant on other people than WR and then we can talk about this in proper context.

But anyway, back to Geno.  You remember him.  He was the topic of this thread.

I’ll take part of the blame for bringing up Whit in the very first reply. I just think he was criminally underrated around the league for a large part of last decade. Joe Thomas obviously deserves to be the #1 OT, but Whit is right there with Joe Staley, imo. Whit only had 4 Pro Bowls to Staley’s 6 (that whole underrated thing), but Whit has 2 All Pro’s to Staley’s 0.

AJ is my favorite current Bengal, but I have no problem with him not being on this list.

(04-06-2020, 03:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’ll take part of the blame for bringing up Whit in the very first reply. I just think he was criminally underrated around the league for a large part of last decade. Joe Thomas obviously deserves to be the #1 OT, but Whit is right there with Joe Staley, imo. Whit only had 4 Pro Bowls to Staley’s 6 (that whole underrated thing), but Whit has 2 All Pro’s to Staley’s 0.

AJ is my favorite current Bengal, but I have no problem with him not being on this list.

Whit got snubbed!

Congrats to Geno - well deserved

They have a list of top 10 snubs and AJ is second (behind Brees)
Whit is also on the list

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108320/article/2010s-alldecade-team-snubs-ten-nfl-players-worthy-of-a-spot

AJ Green is no doubt a HoF caliber player. His HoF career may have been derailed by injury the last few years. And also by having a mediocre QB who consistently left monster plays on the field by his inability to throw a deep ball in bounds.

And don't cite stats to me. We're not talking about a fantasy football HoF.

(04-06-2020, 03:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’ll take part of the blame for bringing up Whit in the very first reply. I just think he was criminally underrated around the league for a large part of last decade. Joe Thomas obviously deserves to be the #1 OT, but Whit is right there with Joe Staley, imo. Whit only had 4 Pro Bowls to Staley’s 6 (that whole underrated thing), but Whit has 2 All Pro’s to Staley’s 0.

AJ is my favorite current Bengal, but I have no problem with him not being on this list.

AJ has as much right to be on the list as Fitzgerald does.  Officially he has 9 years in the league, though 2019 ... but when you look at their production in total yards, yards per catch and touchdowns..   AJ is tops in 2 of the 3 with one year less time... So he should be in that conversation  for sure... 

(04-06-2020, 04:10 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Congrats to Geno - well deserved

They have a list of top 10 snubs and AJ is second (behind Brees)
Whit is also on the list

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108320/article/2010s-alldecade-team-snubs-ten-nfl-players-worthy-of-a-spot

Ah nice. I didn’t see the snub list.

(04-06-2020, 04:11 PM)Mobster Wrote: AJ Green is no doubt a HoF caliber player. His HoF career may have been derailed by injury the last few years. And also by having a mediocre QB who consistently left monster plays on the field by his inability to throw a deep ball in bounds.

And don't cite stats to me. We're not talking about a fantasy football HoF.

Lots of people are HOF caliber but are derailed by injuries or other things. Can't use stats, playoff wins, SB wins, or anything to go against your thought process though. Which is exactly my point on most Bengals fans and their thoughts on AJ to
this point in his career. Blinded my Fandom. 

You think HOF is based on potential?

(04-06-2020, 03:21 PM)McC Wrote: Hester is probably not on it due to recentness bias, having not played in several years.  He's one of the great returners ever.

And Suh is the opposite.  To this day, he is still living off the glory of his first few years and not off the reality of his slide to average.

Sproles and Hill give so much more in the other areas though. Hester was pretty bad in all areas not returning. And they gave close numbers with a lot more in others. 

(04-06-2020, 04:43 PM)TheSweetness Wrote: Lots of people are HOF caliber but are derailed by injuries or other things. Can't use stats, playoff wins, SB wins, or anything to go against your thought process though. Which is exactly my point on most Bengals fans and their thoughts on AJ to this point in his career. Blinded my Fandom. 

You are jumbling together two different things.  You quote someone saying he is a HOF caliber TALENT and then argue he hasn't had a HOF caliber CAREER.  You're arguing apples to oranges.



It's not being blinded by fandom at all.  It is comprehending what he is by having seen him for the last nine years and not being blinded by the need to crap on Bengals.

(04-06-2020, 04:49 PM)McC Wrote: You are jumbling together two different things.  You quote someone saying he is a HOF caliber TALENT and then argue he hasn't had a HOF caliber CAREER.  You're arguing apples to oranges.



It's not being blinded by fandom at all.  It is comprehending what he is by having seen him for the last nine years and not being blinded by the need to crap on Bengals.

How is saying he's a really good player but not HOF worthy at this point a "need to crap on the Bengals"? There's way more statistical proof indicating I'm correct on this point than you. 

I'm sorry, was this list about all decade talents of the decade? Or what people actually did on the field? Atkins was an all decade talent and showed it on the field. AJ has not compared to his peers.

(04-06-2020, 04:53 PM)TheSweetness Wrote: How is saying he's a really good player but not HOF worthy at this point a "need to crap on the Bengals"? There's way more statistical proof indicating I'm correct on this point than you. 

I like you ignored my last post to you though.

You keep arguing production vs. talent and refusing to see that they are two different things. 

You also refuse to see that what a WR does has so much to do with so many other factors.  All you keep saying is numbers.  It's okay.  You don't see the whole picture.  I get it.  

(04-06-2020, 04:58 PM)McC Wrote: You keep arguing production vs. talent and refusing to see that they are two different things. 

You also refuse to see that what a WR does has so much to do with so many other factors.  All you keep saying is numbers.  It's okay.  You don't see the whole picture.  I get it.  

Again, lots of people in the NFL have talent. That doesn't mean shit if you don't put it on the field at a HOF level. Bo Jackson had talent, Greg Cook had talent, lots of people had talent but didn'tshow it fully for one reason or another. What the heck is the point if you don't give HOF production?!

Maybe AJ puts up better numbers or done something in the playoffs with a different QB...but he didn't and HOF doesn't care about what you could have done.

(04-06-2020, 04:43 PM)TheSweetness Wrote: Lots of people are HOF caliber but are derailed by injuries or other things. Can't use stats, playoff wins, SB wins, or anything to go against your thought process though. Which is exactly my point on most Bengals fans and their thoughts on AJ to
this point in his career. Blinded my Fandom. 

You think HOF is based on potential?

The discussion of a HOF does not start with the end of their career... at some point a players start into that discussion over time.. I think 2 years ago it was a fair discussion to say is AJ on a HOF pace and I would have said yes if he could put together 4 more years of his first 6 years.. now I would say No he is not.... 

(04-06-2020, 05:04 PM)TheSweetness Wrote: Again, lots of people in the NFL have talent. That doesn't mean shit if you don't put it on the field at a HOF level. Bo Jackson had talent, Greg Cook had talent, lots of people had talent but didn'tshow it fully for one reason or another. What the heck is the point if you don't give HOF production?!

Maybe AJ puts up better numbers or done something in the playoffs with a different QB...but he didn't and HOF doesn't care about what you could have done.

I don't argue any of that.  Just stop using it as an argument against whether or not he is a HOF talent, which is what you did and stop the bullshit that he is overrated by Bengal fans.  Makes you sound like A)a Steeler fan or B) a trolling dick.

Pertaining to the AJ & HoF discussion. If he is a HoF WR, is Chad Johnson also a HoF WR?