(04-06-2020, 06:52 PM)hollodero Wrote: I wouldn't see it as the biggest need though. Imho that would still be OL or LB. The current QB is considered good enough for the Patriots possibly, by many folks.

No, QB is definitely the biggest need for us, followed by OL and LB. Dalton never played great in the biggest moments.

This is what we need and QB is the most important position in all of sports.

Just because the Pats need a bridge gap QB and Dalton fits that doesn't mean he is good enough for us as we have all seen.

(04-06-2020, 06:52 PM)hollodero Wrote: Fair enough. I don't know why the Dolphins would do that. If I were the Dolphins, I'd never give up 2 additional first rounders to move from 5 to 1.
In my defense, the premise of the thread was that they'd offer that for whatever reason. Maybe they use a different logic than mine :)



I wouldn't see it as the biggest need though. Imho that would still be OL or LB. The current QB is considered good enough for the Patriots possibly, by many folks.

Maybe by Peter King.  The Patriots seem to think they're better off with Stidham.  What really makes anybody think the Pats would want to go from Brady to Dalton?  The whole notion is really kinda laughable.

(04-06-2020, 05:25 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe...if the one is not a QB and more specifically, not THIS QB.  Teams have done a lot of multiple pick deals to go up and get lesser QB prospects.  Happens pretty much every year.

True... and many times it really does not work out that well.  See Griffin III or Trubisky.

Sure Burrow gets high acclaims, but I would shy away from calling him the most sure pick ever. His sample size is still only one year, before that he was more obscure and lost a QB battle to Dwayne Haskins. I don't mean to throw shade at Burrow. But there's a certain amount of lottery involved still. He has a good chance to work out, but is it really a 100% certainty.

(04-06-2020, 07:00 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe by Peter King.  The Patriots seem to think they're better off with Stidham.  What really makes anybody think the Pats would want to go from Brady to Dalton?  The whole notion is really kinda laughable.

I don't know, I never thought this was too realistic. Still it somewhat shows that he is not considered awful, unlike say our LB corps. With Dalton on the roster, QB is not our biggest need. Imho.

(04-06-2020, 07:00 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe by Peter King.  The Patriots seem to think they're better off with Stidham.  What really makes anybody think the Pats would want to go from Brady to Dalton?  The whole notion is really kinda laughable.

Disagree, rare time. The Pats need a stop gap, Dalton has a quick release and is accurate on short passes.

I don't believe the New England shade they are throwing around about the Patriots not wanting a proven stop gap vet QB.

Makes no sense and they just cut Kessler one of their QB's.

(04-06-2020, 07:01 PM)hollodero Wrote: True... and many times it really does not work out that well.  See Griffin III or Trubisky.

Sure Burrow gets high acclaims, but I would shy away from calling him the most sure pick ever. His sample size is still only one year, before that he was more obscure and lost a QB battle to Dwayne Haskins. I don't mean to throw shade at Burrow. But there's a certain amount of lottery involved still. He has a good chance to work out, but is it really a 100% certainty.

Did I call him the most sure pick ever?  How many sure things are there in life period?

And let's not forget that practically the entire football world said a collective Wha?  when the Bears went up for Trubisky.

(04-06-2020, 07:03 PM)hollodero Wrote: I don't know, I never thought this was too realistic. Still it somewhat shows that he is not considered awful, unlike say our LB corps. With Dalton on the roster, QB is not our biggest need. Imho.

Yes, but saying it speaks of what anybody thinks of Dalton is probably a stretch.   This was all from the mind of Peter King.  Just think back to the Patriots game just this past year.  Was Belichick seeing that performance and thinking, yeah, gotta go get this guy?

Almost any QB can manage games and get the Pats and that defense to the playoffs. They need a guy that can step up and make the clutch plays in the biggest moments, and that sure as hell isn’t Dalton. If I’m NE I’d rather roll with Cam.

(04-06-2020, 07:17 PM)McC Wrote: Yes, but saying it speaks of what anybody thinks of Dalton is probably a stretch.   This was all from the mind of Peter King.  Just think back to the Patriots game just this past year.  Was Belichick seeing that performance and thinking, yeah, gotta go get this guy?

Peter King is a dip but that doesn't mean Stidham is better than Dalton either.  

And no way is Hoyer better than Dalton.

(04-06-2020, 07:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Almost any QB can manage games and get the Pats and that defense to the playoffs. They need a guy that can step up and make the clutch plays in the biggest moments, and that sure as hell isn’t Dalton. If I’m NE I’d rather roll with Cam.

Problem is Cam is coming off of injury, Dalton is not and is smarter than Cam. 

Who knows if Dalton can win in the biggest moments in New England, I have no idea.

You are right though that Dalton sure as hell hasn't done it for us. Just think he is a more solid stop gap for NE.

Just my opinion.

(04-05-2020, 06:49 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: There is no guarantee a Heisman trophy winner succeeds in the NFL. Tebow and Manzel to name a few. I would highly consider trading to Miami for a haul of players and picks. I'm okay with sticking to Burrow, but that's the dice you are rolling.

There's no guarantee that Tebow or Manziel should have ever won the Heisman (in my mind, they shouldn't have). Maybe that's why they weren't very good in the NFL. Neither were in offenses that would make them look good in the NFL (again my opinion, but they both in gimmick offenses that were tailored for them).

I personally don't think any freshman or sophmore should qualify to be in the Heisman derby.

Burrow was a QB in a pro style offense that played in league many refer too as the NFL AAA league...

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(04-06-2020, 07:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Problem is Cam is coming off of injury, Dalton is not and is smarter than Cam. 

Who knows if Dalton can win in the biggest moments in New England, I have no idea.

You are right though that Dalton sure as hell hasn't done it for us. Just think he is a more solid stop gap for NE.

Just my opinion.

Not sure I agree Dalton is smarter. Cam actually has 10 less INT’s.

(04-06-2020, 07:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not sure I agree Dalton is smarter. Cam actually has 10 less INT’s.

Surprising, just saying off the field Dalton sure seems much smarter and not as much of a diva.

Never have liked Cam Newton, will admit my bias against the man.

(04-06-2020, 07:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Surprising, just saying off the field Dalton sure seems much smarter and not as much of a diva.

Never have liked Cam Newton, will admit my bias against the man.

Agree there. Cam’s a bit of dbag. Has never stopped NE before though.

(04-06-2020, 07:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not sure I agree Dalton is smarter. Cam actually has 10 less INT’s.

On 469 fewer attempts...

(04-06-2020, 07:48 PM)jason Wrote: On 469 fewer attempts...

Well, sure, it goes without saying Cam would have fewer attempts. He also has like 4x the rushing yds. But my point was Cam has never really been a high turnover guy. Both Dalton and Cam have an identical 2.7 INT %.

(04-06-2020, 07:14 PM)McC Wrote: Did I call him the most sure pick ever?  How many sure things are there in life period?

Fair enough, you probably didn't, it's just quite an essential point in my argument. Burrow, and that is nothing against the man, is not a sure thing. If he were (and there are quite a few of those), things would be different regarding possible trade scenarios.

(04-06-2020, 07:14 PM)McC Wrote: And let's not forget that practically the entire football world said a collective Wha?  when the Bears went up for Trubisky.

That's true.

- I'd have a similar reaction if Miami actually used two additional first round picks to trade from 5 to 1. Honestly, if that were the Bengals doing that exact trade for Burrow, would everyone still be so sure that was the right call?

(04-06-2020, 07:17 PM)McC Wrote: Yes, but saying it speaks of what anybody thinks of Dalton is probably a stretch.   This was all from the mind of Peter King.  Just think back to the Patriots game just this past year.  Was Belichick seeing that performance and thinking, yeah, gotta go get this guy?

As indicated earlier, I'd probably agree with that. I don't see Belichik going for Dalton either. My point would be that it still would not seem like an absurd idea for many in the first place. Which says something.

- If the notion your current QB could be a future Patriot QB doesn't seem outright ridiculous for a majority of observers, then your QB is not all that bad.

(04-06-2020, 09:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: As indicated earlier, I'd probably agree with that. I don't see Belichik going for Dalton either. My point would be that it still would not seem like an absurd idea for many in the first place. Which says something.

- If the notion your current QB could be a future Patriot QB doesn't seem outright ridiculous for a majority of observers, then your QB is not all that bad.

Eh, the Patriots signed Tim Tebow at one point...

(04-06-2020, 09:17 PM)hollodero Wrote: Fair enough, you probably didn't, it's just quite an essential point in my argument. Burrow, and that is nothing against the man, is not a sure thing. If he were (and there are quite a few of those), things would be different regarding possible trade scenarios.



That's true.

- I'd have a similar reaction if Miami actually used two additional first round picks to trade from 5 to 1. Honestly, if that were the Bengals doing that exact trade for Burrow, would everyone still be so sure that was the right call?

Probably not.  That's why where we are is ideal.  Sucked last season but now that we're here, the right thing to do is clear.  No one single position, no matter how good the player is, can transform a franchise like a QB.  This QB is worth turning down extra picks.

I wonder what the chances are that draft night gets here and we find out no trade was even offered.