(04-08-2020, 12:23 AM)Whatever Wrote: I think Jefferson is a good prospect.  However, this WR class is insanely stacked.  The main reason I don't like him for us is that he's going to be a slot WR in the NFL and we already have one of the best slot WR's in the league with Boyd.  We need an outside WR who's got the potential to be a #1, and Jefferson isn't that.  He had trouble getting separation outside in college and was bailed out in that role by some insane ball placement by Burrow a good chunk of the time.  I think he will have a very good career as a #2 in the slot.  He's just not an outside #1.  Now, in a normal class, I think he's a late 1st/early 2nd rounder, but he's probably a 3rd round guy in this class.  There's just too many outside WR's with big boy production and more upside in this class.  

A 3rd Rounder??? I don't know of any Mock Drafts who have him later than an early 2nd. Most have him going in Round 1 to Philly or someone needing a WR which are many.

I think you're a little out on your own with that thinking. Inside or Outside no matter, 11 personnel dominates the league right now and the Bengals ran it over 70% of the time. He doesn't have to be out there on Running downs but can do it. He ran every route tree under Joe Brady last year.
And, his numbers were ridiculous.
Slot or outside, if you're running 3-4 WR's out there 70% of the time, he's going to be one of them and make plays.
The thing I do agree on is that Boyd is already fantastic in the slot. But, he had to be the #1 last year and played plenty on the outside. And if you have AJ and Boyd on the outsides with Ross and Jefferson on the inside, good luck to the defense.

(04-08-2020, 12:23 AM)Whatever Wrote: I think Jefferson is a good prospect.  However, this WR class is insanely stacked.  The main reason I don't like him for us is that he's going to be a slot WR in the NFL and we already have one of the best slot WR's in the league with Boyd.  We need an outside WR who's got the potential to be a #1, and Jefferson isn't that.  He had trouble getting separation outside in college and was bailed out in that role by some insane ball placement by Burrow a good chunk of the time.  I think he will have a very good career as a #2 in the slot.  He's just not an outside #1.  Now, in a normal class, I think he's a late 1st/early 2nd rounder, but he's probably a 3rd round guy in this class.  There's just too many outside WR's with big boy production and more upside in this class.  

Surprised he has trouble getting separation with that 40 time.

(04-08-2020, 12:51 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Surprised he has trouble getting separation with that 40 time.

He had so much trouble getting separation that he Co-led college football with 111 receptions???

On top of that, he had 1,540 yds somehow and Co led College football with 18 TDs???

How in the world did that happen??? I guess you all are right, he can't separate for shit! Lol

(04-08-2020, 12:57 AM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: He had so much trouble getting separation that he Co-led college football with 111 receptions???

On top of that, he had 1,540 yds somehow and Co led College football with 18 TDs???

How in the world did that happen??? I guess you all are right, he can't separate for shit! Lol

You don’t have to convince me, I like Jefferson a lot, and would be happy to have him. Instant chemistry with Burrow would be huge.

I ended up voting Murray in the poll, but only because this WR draft class is so deep we can probably get a really good one in the 3rd.

(04-08-2020, 12:34 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I think Zach Baun play, style and attitude will be a bigger impact on this Defense than any  FA signing we have had so far

We probably won't even get the chance to draft him without going back into the first.  We wouldn't be the only ones wanting him, unfortunately.  I don't think the Ratbirds would let him go by if he got to them.   The only hope there is that they see a replacement there for Yanda.  

The Rats have had a slew of the does some of everything LB's over the years and they need another one now.

Of those 10, I only see 6 as clear picks at #33. Sticking to my board, I said that Oline has to take priority at #33, unless Baun falls. Ruiz is the only OL on the list that I view as a clear #33 pick. #33, in my view, is anyone projected to have gone in the first, but dropped. I only see 6 that meet that criterion. These are my rankings of those 6.

Zach Baun--LB--Wisconsin - If he's there, jump on him. Haven't seen any cause for concern with him. He's going to be a force.
Cesar Ruiz--C/G--Michigan - If Baun is there, AND Ruiz, I'd be jammed up, not knowing who to take. This guy would REALLY help us.
Kenneth Murray--LB--OKL Murray has no real experience covering receivers. I guess he could learn though
Patrick Queen--LB--LSU Queen & Murray both have strengths & weaknesses. Queen had low productivity until the playoffs.
Justin Jefferson--WR--LSU - Tough call between him and Mims. I like that JJ has experience w/Burrow. I'd give him the nod.
Denzel Mims--WR--Baylor – Another hard guy to not take.

If all 6 of them are gone, trade back or take Tee Higgins or Jalen Reagor and keep walking. I'd take either of them before the next 4.

Laviska Shenault-WR Col - Dynamic player. injuries are a concern. Sort of marginal pick at #33

Isaiah Wilson--RT--Georgia - I've mocked him in Round 3 plenty of times, but he's not worth #33. Getting him in a trade back would work

Curtis Weaver--LB--BSU - not a #33 pick, sorry Boise State

Austin Jackson--OT---USC – The profiles I've read question his toughness, no thanks

(04-08-2020, 01:46 AM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: Isaiah Wilson--RT--Georgia - I've mocked him in Round 3 plenty of times, but he's not worth #33. Getting him in a trade back would work

Don't trust your mocks, there is a better chance he goes in the 1st than 3rd round. Some teams have him higher on their board then his more well known teammate Andrew Thomas.

(04-08-2020, 10:31 AM)Au165 Wrote: Don't trust your mocks, there is a better chance he goes in the 1st than 3rd round. Some teams have him higher on their board then his more well known teammate Andrew Thomas.

Fair enough. Lord knows these simulators aren't gospel. How high have you seen Lucas Niang going? 

(04-08-2020, 10:31 AM)Au165 Wrote: Don't trust your mocks, there is a better chance he goes in the 1st than 3rd round. Some teams have him higher on their board then his more well known teammate Andrew Thomas.

Even with the rise since the combines.. the consensus in the mocks is has moved to 2nd round mostly middle of 2nd.. only found a couple mocks have him going in 1st round or 33 pick

(04-08-2020, 12:30 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Even with the rise since the combines.. the consensus in the mocks is has moved to 2nd round mostly middle of 2nd.. only found a couple mocks have him going in 1st round or 33 pick

It's not about mocks, it's about what is being said by people in the know. There are teams that see a HUGE ceiling for Wilson which is getting him some mid to late talk.

My pick was Ruiz as he would solidify the RG spot immediately, best interior Lineman in the class.

I just doubt he will be there, second pick would be Baun as a 3-4 OLB for us.

Murray is my runaway favorite of the 10. My next tier would be Ruiz, Jefferson, and Mims. I'd be happy with any of the four. Baun and Shenault have interesting traits, but may not be able to leverage their talents into good production in the pros. Baun is a sub package guy who may not be able to cover while Shenault is kind of like a Ty Montgomery/Cordarelle Patterson gadget weapon kind of guy. I like Wilson as a prospect, but I see him as a guard in the pros. There should be better pure tackle prospects around at the top of 2 imo. Weaver, Jackson, and Queen have some major red flags imo - athleticism, strength, and production.
PS - I'm kind of disappointed that they list Jefferson and Mims, but not Higgins. Clemson is a WR factory and that guy can glide. He puts up real numbers against real defenses. Okudah had to cheat to try to contain him. He has a higher floor than Mims imo.

(04-08-2020, 01:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You don’t have to convince me, I like Jefferson a lot, and would be happy to have him. Instant chemistry with Burrow would be huge.

I ended up voting Murray in the poll, but only because this WR draft class is so deep we can probably get a really good one in the 3rd.

I'm with you on that NC. I don't mind at all waiting on a WR in the 3rd with this draft. My prediction is they will at least have 2 picks in the 3rd anyway. I hope they get a WR and a LB in that round. Aiyuk may actually be there at Top of 3rd now with that core muscle surgery he just had. And, if Akeem Gaither or Troy Dye is there afterwards, I'd love that WR and LB picks in those spots. :andy:

(04-08-2020, 01:46 AM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: Of those 10, I only see 6 as clear picks at #33. Sticking to my board, I said that Oline has to take priority at #33, unless Baun falls. Ruiz is the only OL on the list that I view as a clear #33 pick. #33, in my view, is anyone projected to have gone in the first, but dropped. I only see 6 that meet that criterion. These are my rankings of those 6.

Zach Baun--LB--Wisconsin - If he's there, jump on him. Haven't seen any cause for concern with him. He's going to be a force.
Cesar Ruiz--C/G--Michigan - If Baun is there, AND Ruiz, I'd be jammed up, not knowing who to take. This guy would REALLY help us.
Kenneth Murray--LB--OKL Murray has no real experience covering receivers. I guess he could learn though
Patrick Queen--LB--LSU Queen & Murray both have strengths & weaknesses. Queen had low productivity until the playoffs.
Justin Jefferson--WR--LSU - Tough call between him and Mims. I like that JJ has experience w/Burrow. I'd give him the nod.
Denzel Mims--WR--Baylor – Another hard guy to not take.

If all 6 of them are gone, trade back or take Tee Higgins or Jalen Reagor and keep walking. I'd take either of them before the next 4.

Laviska Shenault-WR Col - Dynamic player. injuries are a concern. Sort of marginal pick at #33

Isaiah Wilson--RT--Georgia - I've mocked him in Round 3 plenty of times, but he's not worth #33. Getting him in a trade back would work

Curtis Weaver--LB--BSU - not a #33 pick, sorry Boise State

Austin Jackson--OT---USC – The profiles I've read question his toughness, no thanks

I've been reading that the rest of the mock draft world is starting to catch up to the league scouts close to the draft now. And Isaiah Wlson has 1st round grades on many teams draft boards. He's a monster. I'd actually be afraid of Baltimore taking him and throwing him in at RG to take over for Yanda.
In regards to Ruiz, I'm lukewarm on him. What do the Bengals do with 3 Centers on their Roster?? You don't want to move Hopkins out of there b/c he was the highest graded OL not only on the team but high up for all Centers last year. And, Ruiz has played Center for 3 years straight years. So, you move him to LG? IDK about the position change for your #33 pick.

What's your take?

(04-08-2020, 02:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: My pick was Ruiz as he would solidify the RG spot immediately, best interior Lineman in the class.

I just doubt he will be there, second pick would be Baun as a 3-4 OLB for us.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Burrow or Bust. We already have 2 Centers on the Roster, 1 was a 1st Rounder.

Ruiz has played Center for the last 3 years. We don't need help at Center. We need LG and possibly RG help. (We'll see how Xavier does).

Ruiz only played Guard his Freshman year.

I'm not down with doing a position change for your #33 pick.

We certainly shouldn't be moving Hopkins out of Center. He was in the upper tier of graded Centers last year.

(04-08-2020, 02:55 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: I'll ask you the same question I asked Burrow or Bust. We already have 2 Centers on the Roster, 1 was a 1st Rounder.

Ruiz has played Center for the last 3 years. We don't need help at Center. We need LG and possibly RG help. (We'll see how Xavier does).

Ruiz only played Guard his Freshman year.

I'm not down with doing a position change for your #33 pick.

We certainly shouldn't be moving Hopkins out of Center. He was in the upper tier of graded Centers last year.

I think Ruiz would be a major upgrade at either Guard position and great insurance in case Hopkins gets hurt.

For most players it is harder to play Center than Guard anyways.

I don't know why Hopkins is a better Center than he is a Guard, but he is. It is a bit perplexing but I agree, not moving Hop.

(04-08-2020, 02:55 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: I'll ask you the same question I asked Burrow or Bust. We already have 2 Centers on the Roster, 1 was a 1st Rounder.

Ruiz has played Center for the last 3 years. We don't need help at Center. We need LG and possibly RG help. (We'll see how Xavier does).

Ruiz only played Guard his Freshman year.

I'm not down with doing a position change for your #33 pick.

We certainly shouldn't be moving Hopkins out of Center. He was in the upper tier of graded Centers last year.

Cesar Ruiz is an interior offensive linemen he can play all 3 spots besides most centers start off as guards in the NFL. 

Another one id like to add to the list would be AJ Espenesa, DE from Iowa. For what ever reason, I’ve been seeing him fall in recent mocks. If he’s there at 33, I’m on the phone before we’re even on the clock at #33.

(04-08-2020, 01:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: It's not about mocks, it's about what is being said by people in the know. There are teams that see a HUGE ceiling for Wilson which is getting him some mid to  late talk.

Really well be great to actually find evidence of that and mocks can and do take in account of what teams say and their need...as it looks now he would be a reach in the 1st round ..

(04-08-2020, 06:15 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Really well be great to actually find evidence of that and mocks can and do take in account of what teams say and their need...as it looks now he would be a reach in the 1st round ..

I talked to 2 GMs in last 24 hours and both believe UGA OT Isaiah Wilson will go in the 1st round. That’s too rich for me but it looks like it’s going to happen. Betting on the upside.

— Daniel Jeremiah (@MoveTheSticks) April 6, 2020