(04-08-2020, 11:07 AM)Nately120 Wrote: [quote pid='853139' dateline='1586351693']
I'd rather see Burrow come in and throw double-digit picks playing the same style of football we saw at LSU than have him show up and throw single-digit picks playing a conservative style of football like what we have become accustomed to seeing around here. I think his numbers will be pretty good but unless they ruin him, the guy takes chances and he is going to throw some picks as he adjusts to the NFL and learns which throws get him into trouble at this level.
I think he can show a lot in his rookie year and do a lot of good even while throwing picks because he's taking an active hand in the game plan. Luck went 11-5 as a rookie and immediately lived up to the hype AND threw 18 INTs.
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Agreed. Burrow is going to do a lot of good things because he plays aggressively and has the skills to get away with it. On the flip side, he is going to be playing against better defenses and some of the things he could get away with at LSU will be more difficult to pull off in the NFL. I don't know what the numbers will look like at the end of the day but I expect to be happy with his performance.
(04-08-2020, 03:28 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Dalton vs Burrow rookie year surrounding cast comparison...
WR1: AJ Green (Healthy) vs AJ Green (32, broken) = Advantage Dalton
WR2: Jerome Simpson vs Tyler Boyd = Huge Advantage Burrow
WR3: Andre Caldwell vs John Ross = Push
RB: Cedric Benson vs Joe Mixon = Small Advantage Burrow
TE: Jermaine Gresham vs CJ Uzomah = Huge Advantage Dalton
LT: Andrew Whitworth vs Jonah Williams = ENORMOUS Advantage Dalton
LG: Nate Livings vs Michael Jordan = Push
C: Kyle Cook vs Trey Hopkins = Push
RG: Bobbie Williams vs Xavier Su'a-Filo = Small Advantage Dalton
RT: Andre Smith vs Bobby Hart = Huge Advantage Dalton
OC: Jay Gruden vs Zac Taylor/Brian Callahan = Huge Advantage Dalton
- - - - - - - -
That's 6 for Dalton, 2 for Burrow, and 3 Pushes in my mind.
It might be comparable numbers with Dalton's rookie season, but it wouldn't be a let down because Dalton had a better OL and a far better OC than Burrow will.
The problem I am having with your argument is that Burrow broke 7 or more records playing against SEC competition and broke several records against Clemson in the National Title game. Dalton played against Wisconsin in a bowl game but much less competition. Burrow is more talented than Dalton and just about any other QB coming out in the last 10 years at least statistically speaking. Burrow makes others around him better. Burrow will be much better than Dalton his first year at least in TD-INT ratio and completion percentage. Not sure on total yards though.
-Paul Brown “When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less.”
I don't know. Hopkins is average, Cook was average.
The only difference is that Cook played around Whitworth, Andre (when he was good), Zeitler, Boling, so average was "bad". Meanwhile Hopkins has played around Jordan, Hart, Price, etc so average comparatively looked great.
(04-08-2020, 07:56 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: The problem I am having with your argument is that Burrow broke 7 or more records playing against SEC competition and broke several records against Clemson in the National Title game. Dalton played against Wisconsin in a bowl game but much less competition. Burrow is more talented than Dalton and just about any other QB coming out in the last 10 years at least statistically speaking. Burrow makes others around him better. Burrow will be much better than Dalton his first year at least in TD-INT ratio and completion percentage. Not sure on total yards though.
College records simply don't matter when it comes to NFL production.
Tim Tebow, Ryan Leaf, Matt Leinhart, Brady Quinn, David Carr, AJ McCarron, JaMarcus Russell, Akili Smith, and a nearly endless amount more.
(04-08-2020, 10:10 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't know. Hopkins is average, Cook was average.
The only difference is that Cook played around Whitworth, Andre (when he was good), Zeitler, Boling, so average was "bad". Meanwhile Hopkins has played around Jordan, Hart, Price, etc so average comparatively looked great.
College records simply don't matter when it comes to NFL production.
Tim Tebow, Ryan Leaf, Matt Leinhart, Brady Quinn, David Carr, AJ McCarron, JaMarcus Russell, Akili Smith, and a nearly endless amount more.
So your list is a bunch of bums most people never really trusted in the first place, a guy who had it all but couldn't grow up till he hit 30, a second rounder who has been average at the least and a fifth rounder nobody ever saw as more than a backup. And this is your proof that Joe Burrow won't make it.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
(04-08-2020, 06:29 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yes because throwing the ball to Ross is not just a job, it's an adventure.
For all of this talk of taking an LB at 33, I really want a top WR there. I'm beyond done with John Ross. I know it's a deep receiver class, but go get a really good one. AJ's on the back nine, and Ross sucks.
They can get crazy, and address LB in free agency AGAIN next year... Plus Vonn Bell can play a lil hybrid roll this year.
(04-08-2020, 10:54 PM)jason Wrote: For all of this talk of taking an LB at 33, I really want a top WR there. I'm beyond done with John Ross. I know it's a deep receiver class, but go get a really good one. AJ's on the back nine, and Ross sucks.
They can get crazy, and address LB in free agency AGAIN next year... Plus Vonn Bell can play a lil hybrid roll this year.
Ross will get you some splash plays, but he would be better in a more complimentary occasionally used kind of role, like a WR3/4, which means hell yes, get a good one.
Some badass rookie to be the third wideout. I love the possibilities. Think back to when we had Chad/TJ/Slim. That offense was hard to stop. We have Chad and TJ. Are any of these WRs Slim?
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
(04-08-2020, 10:53 PM)McC Wrote: So your list is a bunch of bums most people never really trusted in the first place, a guy who had it all but couldn't grow up till he hit 30, a second rounder who has been average at the least and a fifth rounder nobody ever saw as more than a backup. And this is your proof that Joe Burrow won't make it.
"A bunch of bums most people never really trusted in the first place."
Lol
As if I needed any more evidence that your take is bad. I also never said Joe Burrow won't make it. I said college records simply don't matter when it comes to NFL production.
AJ McCarron had the 3rd highest SEC single-season QB Rating of all time when he got drafted.
Tim Tebow had the 3rd AND 4th highest single-season QB Ratings in the SEC when he got drafted.
Tim Couch had the 2nd AND 3rd highest SEC single-season Passing TDs AND he had the record for most passing yards in SEC history for 20 years. (1997: Couch had 37 TD, Peyton Manning had 36 TD)
Derek Carr still holds his conference records for single-season passing yards and passing TDs.
You know who the winningest QB in NCAA history is? Kellen Moore at 50-3. He threw 142 TDs and had a better completion % than Joe Burrow.
(04-09-2020, 12:13 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: "A bunch of bums most people never really trusted in the first place."
Lol
As if I needed any more evidence that your take is bad. I also never said Joe Burrow won't make it. I said college records simply don't matter when it comes to NFL production.
AJ McCarron had the 3rd highest SEC single-season QB Rating of all time when he got drafted.
Tim Tebow had the 3rd AND 4th highest single-season QB Ratings in the SEC when he got drafted.
Tim Couch had the 2nd AND 3rd highest SEC single-season Passing TDs AND he had the record for most passing yards in SEC history for 20 years. (1997: Couch had 37 TD, Peyton Manning had 36 TD)
Derek Carr still holds his conference records for single-season passing yards and passing TDs.
You know who the winningest QB in NCAA history is? Kellen Moore at 50-3. He threw 142 TDs and had a better completion % than Joe Burrow.
College records don't matter in the NFL.
The minute you bring JeMarcus Russell into your argument, it's obvious how desperate you are to shit on Burrow. Only a desperate person would even use his name.
So, by your goofy thinking, nobody should ever draft a QB.
So, if you're laughably claiming you're doing a service by warning people not to expect a damn thing from Burrow, the first ten times accomplished that. I hardly think it's enough of a point to spread it across every thread where the guy is even mentioned.
Fine, you are smarter than any analyst who goes on and on about the guy. None of them know what they're talking about. Only you have the real dope. He's the next Tim Tebow.
Message received. Save yourself a lot of google time. We ***** get it, pal.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
(04-09-2020, 01:08 AM)McC Wrote: The minute you bring JeMarcus Russell into your argument, it's obvious how desperate you are to shit on Burrow. Only a desperate person would even use his name.
So, by your goofy thinking, nobody should ever draft a QB.
So, if you're laughably claiming you're doing a service by warning people not to expect a damn thing from Burrow, the first ten times accomplished that. I hardly think it's enough of a point to spread it across every thread where the guy is even mentioned.
Fine, you are smarter than any analyst who goes on and on about the guy. None of them know what they're talking about. Only you have the real dope. He's the next Tim Tebow.
Message received. Save yourself a lot of google time. We ***** get it, pal.
JaMarcus Russel's final college year:
67.8% Completion
9.1 YPA
28 TD/8 INT
167.0 Rating
The dude was a 1st overall pick. Why would I not bring him up?
- - - - - - - - - - - -
You are really failing on reading comprehension, McC. I have said multiple times now that I am not saying Burrow will be a bust or terrible. I already predicted 20 TD/13 INT and said I could get behing Ochocincos' prediction of 23 TD/11 INT.
So your whole hyperbolic hissyfit about "nobody should ever draft a QB", "not expect a damn thing", and "he's the next Tim Tebow" (none of which I ever said or suggested) just makes you look like an ignorant person who didn't actually read a person's post before you clicked on quote because you equated cautioning realistic expectations as some kind of attack on Burrow.
(04-09-2020, 01:28 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: JaMarcus Russel's final college year:
67.8% Completion
9.1 YPA
28 TD/8 INT
167.0 Rating
The dude was a 1st overall pick. Why would I not bring him up?
- - - - - - - - - - - -
You are really failing on reading comprehension, McC. I have said multiple times now that I am not saying Burrow will be a bust or terrible. I already predicted 20 TD/13 INT and said I could get behing Ochocincos' prediction of 23 TD/11 INT.
So your whole hyperbolic hissyfit about "nobody should ever draft a QB", "not expect a damn thing", and "he's the next Tim Tebow" (none of which I ever said or suggested) just makes you look like an ignorant person who didn't actually read a person's post before you clicked on quote because you equated cautioning realistic expectations as some kind of attack on Burrow.
That time of the month?
Sure. Whatever you say. You never whine incessantly about anything.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
3862 passing yards, 409 rushing yards, 31 passing TDs, 5 rushing TDs, 14 ints, 2 receptions for 36yds (one of which he throws to himself) with 1 TD, and 2 tackles. He also wins Offensive ROY.
(04-08-2020, 10:54 PM)jason Wrote: For all of this talk of taking an LB at 33, I really want a top WR there. I'm beyond done with John Ross. I know it's a deep receiver class, but go get a really good one. AJ's on the back nine, and Ross sucks.
They can get crazy, and address LB in free agency AGAIN next year... Plus Vonn Bell can play a lil hybrid roll this year.
(04-08-2020, 11:04 PM)McC Wrote: Ross will get you some splash plays, but he would be better in a more complimentary occasionally used kind of role, like a WR3/4, which means hell yes, get a good one.
Some badass rookie to be the third wideout. I love the possibilities. Think back to when we had Chad/TJ/Slim. That offense was hard to stop. We have Chad and TJ. Are any of these WRs Slim?
I've been screaming for a day two WR ! I just don't trust the funky bunch to get it done.
In trying to figure out what Burrow might do in his rookie season, I keep going back to the 2012 Colts, who were also coming off a 2-14 year and took a super-hyped rookie QB in Andrew Luck. That team was able to win 11 games and make the playoffs.
When you look at the rosters, the 2020 Bengals should definitely have a better running attack and more effective defense than Luck had as a rookie. The o-line, while still not great, should also be better than what Luck had. The receiving corps should be similar, or maybe even a little better, if AJ is healthy and play all season.
Luck threw for over 4,300 yards, with 23 TD's and 18 int's as rookie. I think the Bengals will have a better roster than the 2012 Colts and I think that will result in Burrow having more TD's and less int's than Luck had. I'm going to say about 4,200 yards, with 28 td's and 14 int's.
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