(04-08-2020, 01:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They obviously don't factor in strength of schedule with the QB Rating.

That was for anyone still trying to cling to the notion that Tua is better.

(04-08-2020, 02:03 PM)McC Wrote: That was for anyone still trying to cling to the notion that Tua is better.

If you forced me to pick a QB this year, the top 3 for me in order of likelihood of succeeding at the NFL level are:
1) Joe Burrow
2) Tua Tagovailoa
3) Jake Fromm

Herbert, Love, Eason, and Hurts all have some good traits but have some pretty big things to improve on before becoming successful franchise QBs.

(04-08-2020, 07:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If you forced me to pick a QB this year, the top 3 for me in order of likelihood of succeeding at the NFL level are:
1) Joe Burrow
2) Tua Tagovailoa
3) Jake Fromm

Herbert, Love, Eason, and Hurts all have some good traits but have some pretty big things to improve on before becoming successful franchise QBs.

As a lefty, I will always go in on the lefty. 

Tua's game is awesome.  He sees the field, anticipates, makes every throw with great accuracy, is fearless and tough.  But the injury history--and it's not just an injury or two--it's one that casts a shadow on his future prospects and an annual history of injuries.

I've never felt it was fair to blame a player for being injured or call someone made of glass because it seems to me injuries are, unless a guy is way our of shape or something like that, injuries are mostly luck of the draw...your leg was there instead of here, wrong place, wrong time, etc.

But you can't look at Tua without seeing that neon red flag.  Some guys have injury history and then get to the pros and it goes away.  But they are the minority.  History says a guy injured a lot in college will be injured a lot in the pros.

Taking him is a bold move.  If he pans out, he probably pans out big.  But if not, now you may have set your franchise back years.

As I said before, it makes me very happy we don't have to make that choice.

I dont think anyone will get Tua unless they trade up to 3.

If the Bengals sat there at 5, someone will trade up with Detroit, or Detroit could even take Tua.

(04-07-2020, 02:28 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Any surgery that isn’t an emergency to save life, limb, or eyesight is elective. That doesn’t mean they aren’t needed.


Didn’t they say they were moving to a 3-4 hybrid? So what makes you think they’re moving to a 4-3 hybrid? And Epeneza is better suited as a 4-3 DE than DT.


What are their names?

1. They weren’t. It wasn’t a needed surgery. He decided to have both to get back on field faster, as well as make ankles stronger. But they would have healed on their own back to 100 percent.
2. We played a 3-4 hybrid last year. I would hoe with the moves we made, were moving back to a 4-3 hybrid this year. Epeneza best production in college was from the dt position.
3. Bucky brooks is the most notable one Regardless of injury. Mccshay kiper and many others have tua qb1 if injury isn’t taken into account

(04-07-2020, 04:57 PM)Okeana Wrote: Ive been saying for multiple years that you're one of the worst mock draft guys on these forums.  You have outdone yourself this year lmao

In what regard?

(04-08-2020, 02:03 PM)McC Wrote: That was for anyone still trying to cling to the notion that Tua is better.

Tua is though?

(04-09-2020, 11:42 AM)Jpoore Wrote: 1. They weren’t. It wasn’t a needed surgery. He decided to have both to get back on field faster, as well as make ankles stronger. But they would have healed on their own back to 100 percent.
2. We played a 3-4 hybrid last year. I would hoe with the moves we made, were moving back to a 4-3 hybrid this year. Epeneza best production in college was from the dt position.
3. Bucky brooks is the most notable one Regardless of injury. Mccshay kiper and many others have tua qb1 if injury isn’t taken into account
In what regard?
Tua is though?

Since the injury is real and actually did happen, your point is meaningless.  So is the fact that in three years at Bama, he was injured each year.  

We are really splitting hairs on Burrow vs. Tua. Sure, some people have Tua as a better prospect then Burrow, but others have Burrow as a better prospect despite the injuries.

After watching Burrow vs. Alabama this year it's obvious to me that he is better than Tua in the following categories:

1. Accuracy
2. Pocket presence
3. Ability to make plays outside the pocket as well as move around in the pocket
4. Consistency

I also feel like Burrow plays his best on the big stage against the best competition. I would be happy with either, but I strongly prefer Burrow

(04-09-2020, 11:42 AM)Jpoore Wrote: 1. They weren’t. It wasn’t a needed surgery. He decided to have both to get back on field faster, as well as make ankles stronger. But they would have healed on their own back to 100 percent.

You’re more wrong about this than you were about Kyle Murray not going in the first round.

Surgeons don’t recommend surgeries that aren’t needed. I would be shocked if I had to explain that to anyone else, but you.

Quote:2. We played a 3-4 hybrid last year. I would hoe with the moves we made, were moving back to a 4-3 hybrid this year. Epeneza best production in college was from the dt position.

Again, I’m not surprised the Bengals go out and sign a 3-4 NT to the highest contract for a NT and you interpret that as a sign they’re moving to a 4-3. WTF, over?

Quote:3. Bucky brooks is the most notable one Regardless of injury. Mccshay kiper and many others have tua qb1 if injury isn’t taken into account
In what regard?
Tua is though?

What team does Brooks, McShay, or Kiper scout for?

(04-09-2020, 11:42 AM)Jpoore Wrote: 1. They weren’t. It wasn’t a needed surgery. He decided to have both to get back on field faster, as well as make ankles stronger. But they would have healed on their own back to 100 percent.
2. We played a 3-4 hybrid last year. I would hoe with the moves we made, were moving back to a 4-3 hybrid this year. Epeneza best production in college was from the dt position.
3. Bucky brooks is the most notable one Regardless of injury. Mccshay kiper and many others have tua qb1 if injury isn’t taken into account
In what regard?
Tua is though?

What moves make you think that?
Reader is more a 3-4 NT than a 4-3 NT.

(04-07-2020, 06:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I didn't say someone said he's a chump, I just said he's not one.
From a pure talent standpoint, he's on the same level as Burrow.
His only concern is health (at least for me).
If he didn't suffer that season-ending injury in November, I have no doubt there would be a legitimate debate between him and Burrow being the #1 overall pick.

The best ability a player can have is availability.

The idea of shrugging injury concerns off as "well, if he didn't have them then..." is genuinely bizarre to me.

You could do that for literally any prospect. It doesn't mean anything though.

"Well, if Tee Higgins had 4.2 speed, he'd be a top 10 WR."

"...But he doesn't..."

"Yea, but if he did...then he'd be a top 10 pick."

This is the same exact argument being made about Tua.

Injury proneness is a major con. It may be the biggest con in the NFL when it comes to prospects.

(04-09-2020, 10:26 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You’re more wrong about this than you were about Kyle Murray not going in the first round.

Surgeons don’t recommend surgeries that aren’t needed. I would be shocked if I had to explain that to anyone else, but you.


Again, I’m not surprised the Bengals go out and sign a 3-4 NT to the highest contract for a NT and you interpret that as a sign they’re moving to a 4-3. WTF, over?


What team does Brooks, McShay, or Kiper scout for?

They don’t. They’re media scouts. U know the same ones that teams are going after? And he’s not a 3-4 nt he’s a 4-3 nt. And the surgery wasn’t recommended or needed.

(04-10-2020, 11:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: What moves make you think that?
Reader is more a 3-4 NT than a 4-3 NT.

I disagree. I think reader is absolutely a 4-3 dt.

(04-11-2020, 10:12 AM)Jpoore Wrote: They don’t. They’re media scouts. U know the same ones that teams are going after? And he’s not a 3-4 nt he’s a 4-3 nt. And the surgery wasn’t recommended or needed.
I disagree. I think reader is absolutely a 4-3 dt.

DJ Reader played all the interior line spots from 0 to 4i. Most NFL teams run both 43 and 34 alignments.

(04-11-2020, 10:12 AM)Jpoore Wrote: They don’t. They’re media scouts. U know the same ones that teams are going after? And he’s not a 3-4 nt he’s a 4-3 nt. And the surgery wasn’t recommended or needed.
I disagree. I think reader is absolutely a 4-3 dt.

The Texans play primarily a 3-4 defense.  Wouldn't that make him a 3-4 NT?

(04-11-2020, 10:12 AM)Jpoore Wrote: They don’t. They’re media scouts. U know the same ones that teams are going after? And he’s not a 3-4 nt he’s a 4-3 nt. And the surgery wasn’t recommended or needed.

Try getting an operation a surgeon doesn’t recommend.

Matter of fact, go see your local orthopedist and request the tightrope surgery. I’m 99.9% certain the surgeon won’t recommend surgery because you don’t need it.

Quote:I disagree. I think reader is absolutely a 4-3 dt.

Explain why.

(04-11-2020, 06:31 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Explain why.

DJ Reader is a defensive tackle.

For the Texans, Reader lined up mostly from 0-tech to 3 tech but that includes alot of odd fronts like 2i and 2 and even fronts 1 and 3 tech. He even lined up at 4i at times.

Trying to pigeonhole him into a 0 tech 34 Nose or a 1 tech 43 Nose is a disservice to who Reader is and what he can bring to the Bengals Defense.

(04-11-2020, 09:00 PM)Synric Wrote: DJ Reader is a defensive tackle.

For the Texans, Reader lined up mostly from 0-tech to 3 tech but that includes alot of odd fronts like 2i and 2 and even fronts 1 and 3 tech. He even lined up at 4i at times.

Trying to pigeonhole him into a 0 tech 34 Nose or a 1 tech 43 Nose is a disservice to who Reader is and what he can bring to the Bengals Defense.

So your explanation as to why you believe the Bengals will run a 4-3 hybrid is Reader is a 4-3 NT, not a 3-4 NT. And your explanation as to why you believe Reader is a 4-3 NT and not a 3-4 NT is that he’s not a just a 4-3 NT?

You don’t even understand why your explanation contradicts your previous statements.

(04-11-2020, 09:38 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So your explanation as to why you believe the Bengals will run a 4-3 hybrid is Reader is a 4-3 NT, not a 3-4 NT. And your explanation as to why you believe Reader is a 4-3 NT and not a 3-4 NT is that he’s not a just a 4-3 NT?

You don’t even understand why your explanation contradicts your previous statements.

Actually it appears you dont understand.

DJ Reader is not just a 0 tech or a 1 tech. He has lined up across the defensive line in odd and even fronts. An 0 tech is a 34 Nose and a 1 tech is a 43 nose but reader has also lined up at 2i, 2, 3, and 4i which range from Nose to 34 DE alightments.

(04-11-2020, 09:52 PM)Synric Wrote: Actually it appears you dont understand.

DJ Reader is not just a 0 tech or a 1 tech. He has lined up across the defensive line in odd and even fronts. An 0 tech is a 34 Nose and a 1 tech is a 43 nose but reader has also lined up at 2i, 2, 3, and 4i which range from Nose to 34 DE alightments.

This is what Jpoore wrote:

(04-11-2020, 10:12 AM)Jpoore Wrote: They don’t. They’re media scouts. U know the same ones that teams are going after? And he’s not a 3-4 nt he’s a 4-3 nt. And the surgery wasn’t recommended or needed.
I disagree. I think reader is absolutely a 4-3 dt.

“Absolutely” a 4-3 NT, not a 3-4 NT.

I asked to explain why.

You read his explanation. Did he explain why Reader is a 4-3 NT and not a 3-4 NT? Or did he just list places where he lined up without an explanation as to why Jpoore believes he is absolutely a 4-3 NT?

(04-11-2020, 09:52 PM)Synric Wrote: Actually it appears you dont understand.

DJ Reader is not just a 0 tech or a 1 tech. He has lined up across the defensive line in odd and even fronts. An 0 tech is a 34 Nose and a 1 tech is a 43 nose but reader has also lined up at 2i, 2, 3, and 4i which range from Nose to 34 DE alightments.

It's no secret that NFL teams move player around to various spots on the DL, in order to gain the optimum matchup for any given situation.  Everyone know's that Reader's primary duty is Nose Tackle.  

If Tua is your guy. Then good haul.
But I think you'd have to take Epenza with your second pick if you want him. Josh Jones or maybe Erza Cleveland at 33.