(10-16-2015, 12:46 PM)Wyche Wrote:

You're 2 hours and 20 minutes late.  You're fired.

(10-16-2015, 12:36 PM)djs7685 Wrote: My God, you're still using that terrible nickname that you randomly gave to people? Ugh. That's so bad.

Anyway, you insisted that I was in this group that you made up, yet I had him ranked between 12 and 16. I'm not a calculus major, but I'm pretty sure that 12-16 =/= 22-32.

Wheeeeeeeee, and around we go! I can't wait for more pointless comments that don't refute anything that anybody is saying.

No.....you didn't say such....you and I were very close in our assessment.   However , there WERE those who said he was a bottom tier QB.  There's no denying that......

(10-16-2015, 12:47 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You're 2 hours and 20 minutes late.  You're fired.

LMAO.....I've had a busy morning....sue me....but in all fairness , I DID get right back to work

(10-16-2015, 12:54 PM)Wyche Wrote: No.....you didn't say such....you and I were very close in our assessment.   However , there WERE those who said he was a bottom tier QB.  There's no denying that......

Understood that there are/were some, but I wasn't one of them. Ever since Andy has been playing well, certain posters have lost their minds around here.

The logic of "Andy playing well in 2015 means that you guys were wrong about him in 2011-2014!!!" is stupid and makes absolutely zero sense. Unless you're pointing that at the total of 4 people that said that he'll NEVER improve, then it doesn't make sense to throw around to guys like myself.

Andy was average from 2011 - 2014. Andy is great right now. Andy playing great doesn't mean I'm wrong about him being average 4 years ago. I don't like when people say stupid things, and that's a stupid thing that people keep saying

And my point is qb's don't go from below average/average to elite. They don't. So somebody is/was wrong. Especially when those who never saw any good in him wouldn't even admit/say/acknowledge he had "elite" traits/potential. If someone would have said that prior to this season they would have been called all kinds of names by posters.

(10-16-2015, 01:00 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Understood that there are/were some, but I wasn't one of them. Ever since Andy has been playing well, certain posters have lost their minds around here.

The logic of "Andy playing well in 2015 means that you guys were wrong about him in 2011-2014!!!" is stupid and makes absolutely zero sense. Unless you're pointing that at the total of 4 people that said that he'll NEVER improve, then it doesn't make sense to throw around to guys like myself.

Andy was average from 2011 - 2014. Andy is great right now. Andy playing great doesn't mean I'm wrong about him being average 4 years ago. I don't like when people say stupid things, and that's a stupid thing that people keep saying

What you're seeing is (although possibly misdirected towards you ) a response to the notion that he was terrible all along and that all of this wasn't just a part of his progression and growing pains.  Some of us felt that was exactly the case.....others said he was doo doo , period.  Well....they were wrong then , and they still are.  I saw things in his play , work ethic , and certain intangibles that led me to believe that he would improve quite substantially over the coming years.  I'd be lieing if I said I asserted that he would ever be elite.  He's playing at the elite level now.....all he has to do is sustain to be in the conversation. 

(10-16-2015, 01:29 PM)Wyche Wrote: What you're seeing is (although possibly misdirected towards you ) a response to the notion that he was terrible all along and that all of this wasn't just a part of his progression and growing pains.  Some of us felt that was exactly the case.....others said he was doo doo , period.  Well....they were wrong then , and they still are.  I saw things in his play , work ethic , and certain intangibles that led me to believe that he would improve quite substantially over the coming years.  I'd be lieing if I said I asserted that he would ever be elite.  He's playing at the elite level now.....all he has to do is sustain to be in the conversation. 

Wait... You can't call Andy Dalton 'elite!'  
Sorry, I can't resist.

(10-16-2015, 12:21 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I believe you were called a troll because you called him a top 10 QB before this season started.

He wasn't a top 10 QB before the season started.

It was September 21st I made the comment based on how he had performed so far and what I saw in him at that point.  Are you still going to argue my assessment was wrong?  

But I do admit, and have said as much on the old boards, that I believe he was much better than people gave credit for last year.  I remember multiple people claiming we should be drafting a QB, and what we have seen in him by now is the most we will see out of him.  I never claimed then (or even just before season) he was top 10 - thought never crossed my mind - but I knew enough to know last year was not a year to evaluate his progress with all the injuries. We limped into the playoffs with a backup RB in the #3 receiver slot, after all.  I know I said this past winter , after the playoff game, that I would wait until this year before making such decisions.  I was far from the label 'homer' in the past, but that just seemed reasonable - and even then, such a common sense approach months later has Proven right.

I figured I'd jump into the madness, at least long enough to give my take on AD.

I said many times on the old board, that I believed Andy..when on his game..was a very solid NFL QB. I never thought he was near elite, and never, ever thought he was terrible.

My confidence level in Andy was very up and down. While I liked a lot of the things he did and had accomplished, he always made me nervous in pressure situations. I always felt like he got rattled a little too easy, and that his confidence level wasn't quite were it needed to be.

When the Bengals gave him the contract, I was ecstatic about it. Not because Andy got a deal, but because of the fact that they could bail on the deal rather quickly if Andy didn't work out..which I still had doubts about.

Going into this season, I had no idea how Andy would perform. What I've seen in these first 5 games has been awesome. Not only is Andy performing at an incredible level right now, but the intangibles appear to be a very high level as well. I've never seen this much confidence from him. His simply doesn't seem to get rattled so far, and he has a bit of attitude and even a little swagger about him that's just different.

I think a big part of it is that he's grown up as an NFL QB. He's got the successes, failures, ups and downs under his belt. He's also continued to work very hard at his craft to improve. It seems like everything is starting to come together, and perhaps, he does truly take that step to a whole other level.

I'm loving what I'm seeing right now, and hoping he can stay near this level for the entire season..and into the postseason.

(10-16-2015, 02:30 PM)West Union KennyG Wrote: It was September 21st I made the comment based on how he had performed so far and what I saw in him at that point.  Are you still going to argue my assessment was wrong?  

But I do admit, and have said as much on the old boards, that I believe he was much better than people gave credit for last year.  I remember multiple people claiming we should be drafting a QB, and what we have seen in him by now is the most we will see out of him.  I never claimed then (or even just before season) he was top 10 - thought never crossed my mind - but I knew enough to know last year was not a year to evaluate his progress with all the injuries. We limped into the playoffs with a backup RB in the #3 receiver slot, after all.  I know I said this past winter , after the playoff game, that I would wait until this year before making such decisions.  I was far from the label 'homer' in the past, but that just seemed reasonable - and even then, such a common sense approach months later has Proven right.

I think that's at least a fair take, though I don't exactly agree with everything you've said here.

Andy is obviously playing like a top 5 QB this year, but I can't see calling him a top 5/10 guy yet when it has only been 5 games into the season. If we're talking about this year alone, then yes, he's easily top 5 right now.

(10-16-2015, 02:37 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'm love what I'm seeing right now, and hoping he can stay near this level for the entire season..and into the postseason.

There will be a meltdown like never seen before on Bengals message boards if Andy plays like this for the entire regular season and then implodes in the playoffs. Hell, if he stinks it up in the first primetime game of the year, it's going to get pretty ugly around here.

(10-16-2015, 02:48 PM)djs7685 Wrote: There will be a meltdown like never seen before on Bengals message boards if Andy plays like this for the entire regular season and then implodes in the playoffs. Hell, if he stinks it up in the first primetime game of the year, it's going to get pretty ugly around here.

That's another I kept bringing up on the old board. Postseason success is going to take more than Andy Dalton. AD has to do his part, but this entire team, and coaching staff, has got to step up and stop shitting their pants. 


If the team performs well in the postseason, and Andy is the 'only thing' holding them back, then I have no issue with saying he's the problem. But, so far, the problem has been much more than just the QB.

(10-16-2015, 03:06 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: That's another I kept bringing up on the old board. Postseason success is going to take more than Andy Dalton. AD has to do his part, but this entire team, and coaching staff, has got to step up and stop shitting their pants. 


If the team performs well in the postseason, and Andy is the 'only thing' holding them back, then I have no problem saying he's the problem. But, so far, the problem has been much more that just the QB.

This.  

(10-16-2015, 03:06 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: That's another I kept bringing up on the old board. Postseason success is going to take more than Andy Dalton. AD has to do his part, but this entire team, and coaching staff, has got to step up and stop shitting their pants. 


If the team performs well in the postseason, and Andy is the 'only thing' holding them back, then I have no problem saying he's the problem. But, so far, the problem has been much more that just the QB.

Good luck telling that to the lynch mob if Andy has a 50 passer rating again, regardless of what the team is doing around him.

Just sayin', whether it's fair or not, there are some people out there that aren't going to change their minds about Andy unless he plays well in the playoffs. These boards will erupt if he has a rough game.

There's some people noticeably absent in this current debate.

(10-16-2015, 02:48 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I think that's at least a fair take, though I don't exactly agree with everything you've said here.

Andy is obviously playing like a top 5 QB this year, but I can't see calling him a top 5/10 guy yet when it has only been 5 games into the season. If we're talking about this year alone, then yes, he's easily top 5 right now.

If anything other than "this year alone" were meant, I'd use qualifying terms such as "one of the top 10 QB's this decade" or "...in the modern era" or "of all time."  I think anyone else would also.  That right there was the funny interaction I was having w/ Utts before multiple pages blew up after you posted that awful Dalton video from last year.  

I think whenever anyone speaking positively of Dalton says something, for the most part they mean what he is doing right now - whether that praise is garnished with words like "One of the best" "Top 5" or "elite."  But it seems whenever such comments are made, some get offended, not sure the reason, that such comments are meant to compare with Joe Montana and others on the all-time list and suggest their comments are ridiculous.  Personally, I think Dalton has the potential to one day be compared with the greats of all time (being that his first 5 year stats are already comparing).  And as a fan of the team, I'm rooting for him to achieve greatness - this year - and many years to follow. But folks should chill out that when terms like "elite" are used they refer to how he is playing now and are accurate, not that we want to compare careers when this kid has just started.

I must be one of the odd balls who has always thought that Andy would put together a great season and so far this season he seems to be on track. It's a really tough position to master without a lot of ups and downs. He's taken us to the playoffs every year he's been with the club which is no easy task for any QB on any team. I always figured that it would take 4-5 years for him to learn the whole gig and if he had the talent around him he would shine. He's going to still have the occasional crap game, but I thought after year one he'd be a great QB someday and I still believe that. How he does in the playoffs is anyones guess, but right now I wouldn't trade him for any QB in the league.

Being 100% honest here, I think a lot of people said that Dalton sucked or wouldn't get better, was a bottom 10 QB, etc. Those people were wrong then and they're looking even more wrong now. That said, I don't really care. No matter how big your ego is, we're all wrong at some point. Even me.

It'd be nice if we could all just enjoy the ride. Hopefully this is the year we've been waiting for.

(10-15-2015, 08:02 AM)West Union KennyG Wrote: You do realize this was sarcasm based entirely on the way you replied to my post earlier right?  

No. I sure didn't, you clever bloke you.