(04-18-2020, 12:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Think of it like a regular job where the coach is the manager and the player is the employee.
If you're the manager and an employee seems to lack confidence and therefore is unproductive, it's also your responsibility to try to get that employee (back) on track to make them more productive. Some things you cannot control and eventually have to cut your losses if improvement cannot be made, but to simply say it's not management's responsibility to also try to encourage/motivate is just flat out wrong.
Don't be a coach/manager if you're not willing to try to help a player/employee improve.

Agree,

I've said all along the former staff did little to help Ross. I'm not saying a grown man should be pampered and babied. But a good coach/manager knows when a guy needs a kick in the ass and when he needs some sunshine blown up his ass. Marvin just had little interest in Ross. I don't discount what TJ has to say.

But in the same breath it's up to John Ross to fix John Ross. To be honest I don't have a lot of faith he can. Hope he proves me wrong.

Even if Burrow makes him look like Tyreek Hill next season. After that it's time to move on. He's not all pro talent though a good QB may make him appear to be.

(04-18-2020, 01:30 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Even if Burrow makes him look like Tyreek Hill next season. After that it's time to move on. He's not all pro talent though a good QB may make him appear to be.

That’s silly. If he lights it up this year we should absolutely be re-signing him. Kid was absolute TD machine in college, and that’s the one thing he’s shown he can do effectively in the NFL. If he get his receptions and yards up he’ll be a damn good WR.

I can see fans still typing this in 2025:  John Ross just needs to believe in himself and not give up on plays. He's really talented.

(04-18-2020, 01:51 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: I can see fans still typing this in 2025:  John Ross just needs to believe in himself and not give up on plays. He's really talented.

He’s only played in 24 ***** games.

I know this board never lets anything go once they run with a narrative...”Burfict is fat” “Ross is still a rookie” said sarcastically...it’s so tired.

Giving up on a top 10 pick after 24 games is stupid. At least it is if the player has shown flashes. Which Ross has. 7 TD in 2018, huge game against Seattle last season, etc. If he still sucks with Burrow throwing to him ok...

Now Billy Price, him I’m ready to call a bust. I’ve seen nothing to make me think he’ll be a good NFL player. At least not a starter. Yes he’s only played 26 games, but there have been no bright spots like there has been with Ross.

(04-18-2020, 01:30 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Even if Burrow makes him look like Tyreek Hill next season. After that it's time to move on. He's not all pro talent though a good QB may make him appear to be.

Wha???

So, if Burrow makes him look like Hill, that would be the time to get rid of him?

(04-18-2020, 01:30 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Even if Burrow makes him look like Tyreek Hill next season. After that it's time to move on. He's not all pro talent though a good QB may make him appear to be.

Your logic is terrible.
It's not worth re-signing a WR unless they are a multi-year Pro Bowler?
Ross may not end up as a bona-fied elite WR1, but if he shows up well in 2020, he deserves to be re-signed. Just maybe not for elite WR money.

About the only way Joe Burrow is gonna make John Ross look like Tyreek Hill is if he convinces Ross to be a piece of scum to his kids and their mother.

China doll.No confidence.Poor guy.But yes,I agree,He needs to man up.

If John Ross had stayed healthy for 16 games last year
He would probally surpassed 1000 yds.
He averaged 18 yds a catch.
The Ross haters don't want to hear it but he did progress
From year 2 to 3.
In year 2 he was finding His role In the offense.
He got hurt.
In 2020 his role will increase even more now that
Tyler Eifert is gone
You think Sample and Uzomah are gonna get more
Targets than Ross. Heck no.
Ross is the only proven WR other than AJ that can really do
Damage after the catch.
Part of the Ross enigma is that frankly in 3 years
The offensive minds have no clue how use his skill set.
He's not moved around a whole lot.
I've never seen him take a direct snap.
He's not run in motion has much as he should be

(04-18-2020, 12:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Talking with Big Wille on Instagram, TJ had this to say about Ross:


'John Ross is really good. He just needs to believe in himself. 

When they flew us out there to honor us, you remember that? That game was the first touch of John Ross’ career and he fumbled. They gave him a reverse; he fumbled the ball. He didn’t play the rest of the year.

And this is the thing though, if you’re the ninth pick in the draft, you should have all the confidence in the world — that’s number one. And number two is, if you don’t give him the ball after one f------ fumble after his rookie year, do you not think his confidence is going to drop?

He sends me video of his second year [2018]. He’s not playing. They took his confidence from him, without knowing it.

This is the honest to god truth. You know me. I ain’t sugar coating sh--. John Ross can mother fu----- go. Everybody knows he’s fast. He’s quick, he can run routes, and he catches the ball. Physically, it’s phenomenal. It has to be mental. They took his confidence from him.

Part of me working with him, isn’t getting him better physically, it’s getting him better mentally.'

Sad man, thought so. Marv can suck it on this one. Not cool.

Too bad Ross doesn't have Housh's mentality, hopefully with working with him he will get some of it and that will rub off on him.

Has John Ross ever played under a OC at.the NFL
Level that has a resume that reflects success?
You can have all the god given talent in the world
But if it can't be schemed correctly then it's wasted

(04-18-2020, 03:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Has John Ross ever played under a OC at.the NFL
Level that has  a resume that reflects success?
You can have all the god given talent in the world
But if it can't be schemed correctly then it's wasted

Great point. Hopefully Zac grows in this aspect.

Yet AJ and Boyd did fine in the careers in Cincy but Ross just couldn't?. Get the play call and you can do it or not. If he needs confidence, hire a therapist. Bengals did not cause his issues. They have enough problems that fixing this China doll is not on the priority list. He is an Pro Bowl "IF" but it never materializes with him.

(04-18-2020, 03:59 PM)Destro Wrote: Yet AJ and Boyd did fine in the careers in Cincy but Ross just couldn't?. Get the play call and you can do it or not. If he needs confidence, hire a therapist. Bengals did not cause his issues. They have enough problems that fixing this China doll is not on the priority list. He is an Pro Bowl "IF" but it never materializes with him.

AJ and Boyd weren't benched after their first mistake as rookies. Big ***** difference man.

(04-18-2020, 01:15 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: This team really needs a field stretcher and Ross ain't it.

He gets jammed too easily.

His "speed" is in space and making players miss.

Let's hope the play-caller(whomever that may be)understands this.

That's very easy to design against. Literally just put him on motion

(04-18-2020, 12:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Talking with Big Wille on Instagram, TJ had this to say about Ross:


'John Ross is really good. He just needs to believe in himself. 

When they flew us out there to honor us, you remember that? That game was the first touch of John Ross’ career and he fumbled. They gave him a reverse; he fumbled the ball. He didn’t play the rest of the year.

And this is the thing though, if you’re the ninth pick in the draft, you should have all the confidence in the world — that’s number one. And number two is, if you don’t give him the ball after one f------ fumble after his rookie year, do you not think his confidence is going to drop?

He sends me video of his second year [2018]. He’s not playing. They took his confidence from him, without knowing it.

This is the honest to god truth. You know me. I ain’t sugar coating sh--. John Ross can mother fu----- go. Everybody knows he’s fast. He’s quick, he can run routes, and he catches the ball. Physically, it’s phenomenal. It has to be mental. They took his confidence from him.

Part of me working with him, isn’t getting him better physically, it’s getting him better mentally.'

If you give Ross a new lease on life with Zac Taylor, he had 28 receptions for 506 yards and 3 TDs in 2019.  That was in 8 games.  Even when he wasn't being targeted, he helped to open things up underneath for the likes of Boyd and Eifert.

One thing that is also being overlooked with Ross is that Taylor's routes (his concepts) are very well respected and have been copied around the league.  The problem in Cincy was that the QB didn't have time to wait for many of the routes to unfold.  Improvements on the line is surely going to help address this, but also the patience and ability of Burrow to slide around the pocket waiting for the WR to make that final break.  Reminds me a lot of Kurt Warner.  Thankfully, he is more mobile than Warner so I hope he can avoid a lot of the pounding Warner took holding on to the ball.  And Warner had blazing speed at WR with the Greatest Show on Turf.  It STILL takes time for routes to develop.  Adding Williams and the Michael Jordan we saw the second half of the season will help.  Jury is still out on XSF and Hart/Johnson, but I feel a lot better about them than I did a year ago.  

If Ross simply stays healthy (I know, I know....a big "IF", but how that is different for him than Green or Eifert is beyond me), he projects to around 50 catches and over 1000 yards with 9 TDs.  If we got that from Ross with Boyd and Green also healthy all year, we are in the F'n playoffs.  

I am glad TJ is still working with him and I hope some of TJ's case of the red ass can rub off on him.  

Can he play more than a few games at a time then missing half a year?

If he does that and plays well I’ll reconsider him a bust in my mind

(04-18-2020, 01:07 PM)Joelist Wrote: I hope TJ is also teaching Ross how to play the ball in the air because he is possibly the worst WR at that I have ever seen. And you can't try to lay this at the feet of anyone else because if it was not him then we would have most or all of our WRs exhibiting the same issues; but we don't. Really it is just Ross who drops balls that hit him right on the hands, loses the ball in the air and making easy plays hard and also flat out running the wrong route or prematurely breaking it off.

That's an absolutely false statement. 2 years ago, Ross made a catch in the end zone against the tightest coverage of the year said by ESPN. It had the lowest % of catch probability all year in the league, and Ross made the catch against Baltimore. 

And then against Seattle, he's the one who caught yet another under thrown ball by Dalton. The 2 Seattle defenders misjudged it, but not Ross. 

Go back 2 years ago and see how many balls Dalton and Driskel under threw Ross on bombs where he was 2-3 steps ahead of the defenders and gave him no chance for the catch. He should've had at least 4 more TDs that year if the Bengals had competent QBs who could throw deep balls. 

Honestly, he needs to go to a team like Seattle and Russell Wilson, best deep ball thrower in the league. It would be a fresh new start for Ross and you'd see how a real deep ball is thrown for TD's. 

I wish the Bengals would just trade him for whatever pick or player they could get for him and move on. 

(04-18-2020, 03:59 PM)Destro Wrote: Yet AJ and Boyd did fine in the careers in Cincy but Ross just couldn't?. Get the play call and you can do it or not. If he needs confidence, hire a therapist. Bengals did not cause his issues. They have enough problems that fixing this China doll is not on the priority list. He is an Pro Bowl "IF" but it never materializes with him.

Boyd didn’t break out until his 3rd season, and while he’s currently a far, far better WR than Ross, he only has 5 more TD’s (15) than Ross (10), in more than twice as many games played. Ross is clearly a useful weapon.

Pointing out Ross isn’t as good as AJ is pretty silly. Few are.