(04-19-2020, 09:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: If the Jags did that, you could go ahead and turn in next year's slip for Lawrence.

Right, that's why I don't think a trade with them is likely unless we eat alot of Dalton's salary. I just don't see them having the cap space.

(04-18-2020, 07:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Idk about that. In 14 games Minshew threw 21 TD to just 6 INT and had a 91.2 rating. Dalton hasn’t had a rating that high in 3 years. And Andy’s 16 TD to 14 INT in 13 games was just horrendous.

Dalton also in those three years had the worst offensive line by far and also lost two of his best targets to other teams cuz brown is cheap and Aj green has spent the last two years injured. U think it makes no difference to daltons game that he lost his consecutive pro bowl caliber WR? It’s no secret that when dalton was protected with solid healthy targets around him he lit it up on a mvp type season. Then he loses all of the talent protecting him on the offensive line and a wr his numbers drop and instead of pointing the finger at management u get lazy and blame dalton lmao. also Dalton is better than minshew and it’s not even close. Minshew beat horrible teams, and they barely won those games. Minshew is a poor mans Doug Flutie. I’m out here in Jax and as much as I love minshew and want him to be a franchise qb he’s not. He’s a solid back up option. But until both are protected well enough and minshew has an MVP caliber season like dalton did in 2015 don’t even waste our time with that bs talk.

(04-19-2020, 02:12 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Dalton is better than minshew and it’s not even close. Minshew beat horrible teams, and they barely won those games. Minshew is a poor mans Doug Flutie. I’m out here in Jax and as much as I love minshew and want him to be a franchise qb he’s not. He’s a solid back up option. But until both are protected well enough and minshew has an MVP caliber season like dalton did in 2015 don’t even waste our time with that bs talk.

Ok guy...lol

I guess all of Dalton’s wins against the Browns over the years don’t count, because they were against “bad teams.” Is he even .500 without those wins?

(04-19-2020, 02:00 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: Right, that's why I don't think a trade with them is likely unless we eat alot of Dalton's salary. I just don't see them having the cap space.

It's an intriguing possibility, and the fear that the season could be cut short is surely going to impact these decisions.

I am unsure how much the Bengals could AFFORD to pay of his contract, but essentially paying for a pick here sounds pretty good.  If you pay enough of it, maybe you could secure a 2nd round pick and allow the Bengals to trade/release Hart.  That would free up some money as well.  

I know I am in the minority, but I would rather see them get the safety I covet in Dugger or, possibly Chinn, if Dugger is gone and release Williams.  Shawn Williams is clearly on the decline and I would rather have a young beast like Dugger to play that nickel backer and return punts.  

(04-19-2020, 02:00 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: Right, that's why I don't think a trade with them is likely unless we eat alot of Dalton's salary. I just don't see them having the cap space.

Us eating a portion of the salary is only one half of the equation. The other half is Dalton restructuring.

If the Bengals eat $5m and receive a 3rd that would work for the Bengals. Dalton could then agree to restructure the remaining $12m over 2 years. Take half of it ($6m) as a signing fee and pay $3m in salary in 2020 and say $6m plus $5m in incentives in 2021.

Dalton receives $14m in 2020 ($5m from Bengals, $9m from Jags but only a cap hit to them of $6m) and $6m plus $5m incentives in 2021.
That's affordable for the Jags, they can recoup their third round in 2021 by trading Dalton (who'll have an affordable contract) prior to the draft deadline to a QB needy team if he's not their first choice or get a compensatory pick if he walks after 2021. Dalton gets an extra $5m that he wouldn't get if he was cut (teams have already largely set their budgets, so he's not going to get $17m this year in free agency) and to work with a coach he knows and likes in Jay Gruden and a shot at starting. The Jags still have 3 draft picks in the first 3 rounds but they gain an affordable, high character, veteran QB who's taken teams to the play-offs 5 times in a row and can be a trade chip next year if Minshew pans out.

You might need to tweak the numbers a little, maybe it's a 4th instead of a 3rd, but something along those lines would seem to benefit all 3 parties - Dalton, the Jags and the Bengals.

(04-20-2020, 09:32 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Us eating a portion of the salary is only one half of the equation. The other half is Dalton restructuring.

If the Bengals eat $5m and receive a 3rd that would work for the Bengals. Dalton could then agree to restructure the remaining $12m over 2 years. Take half of it ($6m) as a signing fee and pay $3m in salary in 2020 and say $6m plus $5m in incentives in 2021.

Dalton receives $14m in 2020 ($5m from Bengals, $9m from Jags but only a cap hit to them of $6m) and $6m plus $5m incentives in 2021.
That's affordable for the Jags, they can recoup their third round in 2021 by trading Dalton (who'll have an affordable contract) prior to the draft deadline to a QB needy team if he's not their first choice or get a compensatory pick if he walks after 2021. Dalton gets an extra $5m that he wouldn't get if he was cut (teams have already largely set their budgets, so he's not going to get $17m this year in free agency) and to work with a coach he knows and likes in Jay Gruden and a shot at starting. The Jags still have 3 draft picks in the first 3 rounds but they gain an affordable, high character, veteran QB who's taken teams to the play-offs 5 times in a row and can be a trade chip next year if Minshew pans out.

You might need to tweak the numbers a little, maybe it's a 4th instead of a 3rd, but something along those lines would seem to benefit all 3 parties - Dalton, the Jags and the Bengals.

Nice! Now THAT's being creative. Hopefully, the two teams can do the same. You wanna go negotiate this deal? 

(04-20-2020, 09:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It's an intriguing possibility, and the fear that the season could be cut short is surely going to impact these decisions.

I am unsure how much the Bengals could AFFORD to pay of his contract, but essentially paying for a pick here sounds pretty good.  If you pay enough of it, maybe you could secure a 2nd round pick and allow the Bengals to trade/release Hart.  That would free up some money as well.  

I know I am in the minority, but I would rather see them get the safety I covet in Dugger or, possibly Chinn, if Dugger is gone and release Williams.  Shawn Williams is clearly on the decline and I would rather have a young beast like Dugger to play that nickel backer and return punts.  

I like the idea of cutting Bobby Hart if we can draft Jones or Wilson at #33. Cutting Shawn Williams would also be good in exchange for Dugger or Chinn. I look at those guys and I think of our immediate needs, and I really want more than 7 picks.

(04-20-2020, 10:38 AM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: I like the idea of cutting Bobby Hart if we can draft Jones or Wilson at #33. Cutting Shawn Williams would also be good in exchange for Dugger or Chinn. I look at those guys and I think of our immediate needs, and I really want more than 7 picks.

No doubt.  Now I keep cutting players in my head BEFORE this deal is even consummated so I have cap space to help cover Dalton's contract while shipping him to the Jags.

And while a lot of folks might be saying:  "How is sending Dalton to Jax doing right by him?".  It is doing the right thing for him because he would be able to start at Jax, where most other places a deal like this lines him up as a backup.  Hard to get his next deal on the bench of some team. 

(04-17-2020, 05:21 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: Let's hope https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/17/cincinnati-bengals-andy-dalton-trade-jaguars-interested/ happens!  


I wonder how they could get to "the right price?"

Dalton gets cut.

The Bengals are not going to eat any contract....Dalton was given permission to seek a trade....That means that at trade would most likely involve a new contract with said team. Cincinnati would just cut Dalton before eating any monies. We will find out in the next few weeks as they need the cap room to sign rookies after the draft. If anything a trade would be done late Thursday or Friday night when the Bengals are on the clock for pick 33 or 107.

(04-20-2020, 12:39 PM)spazz70 Wrote: The Bengals are not going to eat any contract....Dalton was given permission to seek a trade....That means that at trade would most likely involve a new contract with said team.  Cincinnati would just cut Dalton before eating any monies.  We will find out in the next few weeks as they need the cap room to sign rookies after the draft.  If anything a trade would be done late Thursday or Friday night when the Bengals are on the clock for pick 33 or 107.

Mike Brown would prefer not to spend any money but he'll be aware it is better to spend $5m to acquire a 3rd round pick than to outright cut Dalton. 

In baseball studies have shown a 2nd round pick is worth about $20m, obviously the finances are different in football but the principle is the same in that the draft allows teams to acquire talent at artificially low prices. That is incredibly valuable to franchises - why do you think Mike Brown values compensatory picks so highly?

(04-20-2020, 01:11 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Mike Brown would prefer not to spend any money but he'll be aware it is better to spend $5m to acquire a 3rd round pick than to outright cut Dalton. 

In baseball studies have shown a 2nd round pick is worth about $20m, obviously the finances are different in football but the principle is the same in that the draft allows teams to acquire talent at artificially low prices. That is incredibly valuable to franchises - why do you think Mike Brown values compensatory picks so highly?

Interesting, I guess that I never really gave much thought as to what the cash value of a draft pick would be.

(04-20-2020, 01:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Interesting, I guess that I never really gave much thought as to what the cash value of a draft pick would be.

Guess it also depends what you do with the pick. If the extra pick lands you a Marvin Jones or Kevin Zeitler that would be money well spent. Margus Hunt, Malik Jefferson, Josh Malone, not so much.

But hindsight is always 20/20.

I don't see the Bengals taking less than a third for Dalton at this point. And I don't see anyone giving more than a 4th at this point.

I see Dalton being cut and ending up in Jacksonville, or the Bengals finding a way to keep him on the roster.

(04-20-2020, 01:43 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Guess it also depends what you do with the pick. If the extra pick lands you a Marvin Jones or Kevin Zeitler that would be money well spent. Margus Hunt, Malik Jefferson, Josh Malone, not so much.

But hindsight is always 20/20.

Indeed, although that also applies to free agency. Of course the more picks you have in the draft (and the higher the pick) the better your chances and the Bengals have what we hope is the golden ticket with the first shot at a QB.

The third round is valuable for the same reason (if not quite to the same scale) that a QB on a rookie contract is valuable.

(04-19-2020, 02:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Ok guy...lol

I guess all of Dalton’s wins against the Browns over the years don’t count, because they were against “bad teams.” Is he even .500 without those wins?

I'm with you on this. Dalton was average at best. He hit his ceiling in 15' and hes on the downside. He was honestly never that good. They just had a super team around him for thos let couple years and Andy was the weak link. I'll never forget all those 3 and outside and stall out on such important drives in big games. He was notorious for it.  Then when he threw the ball out of bounds on a 4th down on purpose. That's  not the QB I want... Also, let us not forget his fumble in the charger playoff game with no one around him that broke their backs.. I could spend all day pointing out plays like this. Good QBs dont do this, esp not this many times if they do..

(04-20-2020, 02:11 PM)3wt Wrote: I don't see the Bengals taking less than a third for Dalton at this point.  And I don't see anyone giving more than a 4th at this point.

I see Dalton being cut and ending up in Jacksonville, or the Bengals finding a way to keep him on the roster.

That just doesn't make any sense. In this draft, with the talent that is there, and with a Baltimore GM stating that you can find a STARTING WR in Round 5 this year, Brown and the Bengals would be imbeciles to not take a 4th or 5th for Dalton during the draft. 
You can't let your pride get in the way of getting something for a player instead of nothing. 
It wouldn't be embarassing either as Flacco was traded to Denver last year for a 4th rounder. 
It's simply where these average starting QB's are valued these days, and Brown has to just deal with it and move on. 

More of what we already knew.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/andy-dalton-on-the-move-one-team-is-reportedly-interested-in-the-bengals-qb-but-only-at-the-right-price/

I could see him moved like Glenn was a few years ago. A switch of picks involving Dalton.

If the Bengals really want to help trade Andy he and they should just rework his deal to slash the cap hit to a new team. It should be possible to do something like no guaranteed money at all, no signing bonus just take the 17 million and split it over 2 years.