(04-19-2020, 09:25 PM)Okeana Wrote: He certainly never said he wanted to hold out.  The Bengals said they're "prepared for a holdout" if they can't reach an extension with Mixon.  Why would a team release this information; maybe because they want to pressure him to take the deal their offering.  So you agree that it shows a bad character because he did exactly what you said he should do and privately speak with the team?  Shrug maybe I'm just a weirdo who doesn't judge people in the middle of business negotiations.  The next time one of my employees asks me for more money because they're being paid a tenth of the market value I will tell them they are bad people and order them to get back to work.

(04-19-2020, 09:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: From The Athletic:


The Athletic's Paul Dehner writes contract-year RB Joe Mixon is "prepared for a holdout" if he and the Bengals can't agree to a long-term deal.

Mixon is headed into the final year of his rookie deal, which is set to pay him just over $1.2 million. He's obviously insanely underpaid, and Mixon knows the deal with running backs -- their shelf life is short, so he needs to capitalize when able. 24 in July, Mixon is coming off yet another 1,000-yard season after piling up a huge second half following the Week 9 bye. Mixon had 100 yards and/or one touchdown in 6-of-8 games down the stretch in 2019. However, we've seen how holdouts go with running backs. It could be a risky line to walk for Mixon. It is notable the Bengals have been willing to spend money this offseason.

My memory, which ain't what it used to be, tells me it was Mixon or his agent who made the possibility of a holdout public. He signed a contract. I want to see him paid and paid fairly. Based on what other RBs have gotten, Mixon's next contact will be much better for him than his current one. I don't know what he's asking for. Has anyone heard? I hope it's not north of $10 million a year. 

(04-19-2020, 02:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote:  but I also see the opportunity for some Vontaze Burfict to be showing up in his personality.  

Some Vontaze, but not too much.  I don't want him continually launching himself head first at people.

(04-19-2020, 01:00 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I like him as a player. I don't really like his off field issues. I'd rather we take him in the 4th if he were there, but if we do take him in the 3rd round...I'd deal with it.

If we take him at 33, I'll be very frustrated.

I kind of agree here.  The value is in Rd 3.  If anyone else wants him, they have to use a 2nd round pick and with the couple minor character issues that might be a reach.  I would love our first three picks to go Burrow, Mims/Claypool, Gay.  My dream would be slide a bit in Rd 2 (if mims isn't there) and try to get an additional 3rd rounder to use on Dugger or Chinn. 

(04-19-2020, 09:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: From The Athletic:


The Athletic's Paul Dehner writes contract-year RB Joe Mixon is "prepared for a holdout" if he and the Bengals can't agree to a long-term deal.

Mixon is headed into the final year of his rookie deal, which is set to pay him just over $1.2 million. He's obviously insanely underpaid, and Mixon knows the deal with running backs -- their shelf life is short, so he needs to capitalize when able. 24 in July, Mixon is coming off yet another 1,000-yard season after piling up a huge second half following the Week 9 bye. Mixon had 100 yards and/or one touchdown in 6-of-8 games down the stretch in 2019. However, we've seen how holdouts go with running backs. It could be a risky line to walk for Mixon. It is notable the Bengals have been willing to spend money this offseason.

Guys, we can throw water on this whole thing:  He is not going to hold out.  He might miss some voluntary workouts to extend his time away from the team but that is the extent of his leverage.  If he holds out to a certain point, he doesn't get to accrue this year as a year toward FA.  So, he would STILL not be able to test the market next year.  He would never reach free agency under the current set of rules.

With that being said, I understand where Mixon is coming from.  Not only is he seeing huge dollars spent by him employer on good, but not elite talent (except maybe Reader), but he is seeing the RB position become more and more of a "rent-a-mule" business where they are undervalued in the draft, and their second contracts are always iffy because of the pounding they take.  There is no position in the NFL that has a worse circumstance.  Now I hear rumblings that the RBs are trying to create their OWN union separate of the players union.  Groan.  I get it, but more pissing in the wind.

For Mixon, it boils down to amount...He is not used like CMC as a receiver and doesn't essentially play two positions.  CMC earned his deal, but you can see what happened to the likes of Gurley when they signed big deals.  The guaranteed money has to be solid for him.  His ego is going to want to see him paid as one of the top 5 RBs in the league, but the contracts of guys like Bell are jokes and have horribly hamstrung their teams.  If the Bengals are going to extend Joe, I would imagine for it to work the dollars would have to be around $8.5 million per year.  If he wants over $10 million, he will have to get that elsewhere.  It would prevent the money for Green next year among others.

I really want Mixon on this team.  Dude hates losing and I actually really love his energy.  When Green caught that game-winning TD against Atlanta in what seems like ages ago, Mixon was flying down the sidelines to be the first to jump on him.  Love it.  He would probably have the opportunity to really begin to reach his potential as a receiver here as well, with Burrow and more empty sets.  But he isn't going to get what Gurley, Bell, Elliott, or CMC were paid.  

If I'm the Bengals, I look to do a 3-year, $30 mill extension that pays Mixon $6 mill this year in bonus money.
That essentially makes his contract ~$8 mill a year through 2023.

That would make him the 6th highest paid RB on the market right now, which is fair because he's been in the 6-10 range in rushing production the past two years.

(04-20-2020, 10:28 AM)ochocincos Wrote: If I'm the Bengals, I look to do a 3-year, $30 mill extension that pays Mixon $6 mill this year in bonus money.
That essentially makes his contract ~$8 mill a year through 2023.

That would make him the 6th highest paid RB on the market right now, which is fair because he's been in the 6-10 range in rushing production the past two years.

If he is ok with that and they can afford that deal then that’s ok.

But Mixon wants rbs to be paid more period. Is he ok with 8 million a year? Does he think he should get paid 10 or more? That’s where the bengals should start negotiations.

(04-19-2020, 09:50 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Like it or not, the NFL is a business, and the "honoring his part of the deal" works both ways. The Bengals signed Dalton to a contract, yet they can cut him and not have to pay his 17 million dollar salary this year, just as Mixon can decide he doesn't want to play for 1.2 million or at least without a multi-year deal in place. 

I don't blame Mixon at all if that's his approach. Fans get too emotional over the business aspect of the game. Would it suck if he held out? Of course. But I get it, especially given the position he plays. RB's typically get one big contract. That's it. You only get one shot, and you had better make damn sure you get it right. If he plays for peanuts this year compared to his production and suffers a serious injury he is screwing his one shot at a big money contract. I'm sure his agent is advising him on this, and rightfully so.

Those 2 things are night and day.  Unfortunately you are wrong on this one.

It is written into every NFL contract that the team can cut a player and it also describes what compensation the players receives if he is cut.  It is PART of the contract.

There is nothing in the contract that allows Mixon to walk away from his or even renegotiate.

(04-20-2020, 12:38 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: If he is ok with that and they can afford that deal then that’s ok.

But Mixon wants rbs to be paid more period. Is he ok with 8 million a year? Does he think he should get paid 10 or more? That’s where the bengals should start negotiations.

I understand and agree.
But to me, until Mixon produces like a Top 5 RB, he doesn't deserve to get paid like a Top 5 RB.
Your math is wrong though. He's getting $10 mill a year for 3 years, it's just spread out over 4 years to lighten the hit on the 2021-2023 cap space.
I don't personally want to see the Bengals spend $13+ mill a year on a player at the RB position.

(04-20-2020, 01:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I understand and agree.
But to me, until Mixon produces like a Top 5 RB, he doesn't deserve to get paid like a Top 5 RB.
Your math is wrong though. He's getting $10 mill a year for 3 years, it's just spread out over 4 years to lighten the hit on the 2021-2023 cap space.
I don't personally want to see the Bengals spend $13+ mill a year on a player at the RB position.

If we're going to pay him in accordance with his production ranking (9th in rushing yards, 11th in combined rush+rec), and split the difference and say he's the "10th" best RB out there right now, the 10th highest salary for a RB is currently $6.125M/per.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/running-back/

I think that many of these folks that are saying that the team should extend him for $10M/per, haven't really taken a look at where he ranks statistically and how the salary rankings compare.  They see things like Bell getting $13M and CMC getting $16M/per and think that ALL the new RB contracts will be in the double digit millions/per category, when it simply isn't true.

If we are talking about giving Mixon a 3 year extension, 3 years/$20M would be a number fair to both sides.

(04-20-2020, 02:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If we're going to pay him in accordance with his production ranking (9th in rushing yards, 11th in combined rush+rec), and split the difference and say he's the "10th" best RB out there right now, the 10th highest salary for a RB is currently $6.125M/per.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/running-back/

I think that many of these folks that are saying that the team should extend him for $10M/per, haven't really taken a look at where he ranks statistically and how the salary rankings compare.  They see things like Bell getting $13M and CMC getting $16M/per and think that ALL the new RB contracts will be in the double digit millions/per category, when it simply isn't true.

If we are talking about giving Mixon a 3 year extension, 3 years/$20M would be a number fair to both sides.

Yep.
Now maybe Mixon doesn't get enough touches and his reasoning could be, "I'd be up there too if you gave me more opportunities!"
Well, they aren't, so you can't justify paying that much until/unless you use him like that.
I was saying 3 years, $30 mill extension because that's basically the max I'd go.

(04-20-2020, 01:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I understand and agree.
But to me, until Mixon produces like a Top 5 RB, he doesn't deserve to get paid like a Top 5 RB.
Your math is wrong though. He's getting $10 mill a year for 3 years, it's just spread out over 4 years to lighten the hit on the 2021-2023 cap space.
I don't personally want to see the Bengals spend $13+ mill a year on a player at the RB position.

(04-20-2020, 02:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If we're going to pay him in accordance with his production ranking (9th in rushing yards, 11th in combined rush+rec), and split the difference and say he's the "10th" best RB out there right now, the 10th highest salary for a RB is currently $6.125M/per.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/running-back/

I think that many of these folks that are saying that the team should extend him for $10M/per, haven't really taken a look at where he ranks statistically and how the salary rankings compare.  They see things like Bell getting $13M and CMC getting $16M/per and think that ALL the new RB contracts will be in the double digit millions/per category, when it simply isn't true.

If we are talking about giving Mixon a 3 year extension, 3 years/$20M would be a number fair to both sides.

Dollars to donuts Mixon will want more even if his production says otherwise. I like the player and his want to play on the team, but I really think he’s going to want north of 10 mil a year. And he isn’t worth that and isn’t worth 10 based on his production. I am shopping him if he is saying that

(04-20-2020, 04:47 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Dollars to donuts Mixon will want more even if his production says otherwise. I like the player and his want to play on the team, but I really think he’s going to want north of 10 mil a year. And he isn’t worth that and isn’t worth 10 based on his production. I am shopping him if he is saying that

Feel the same.

(04-20-2020, 04:47 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Dollars to donuts Mixon will want more even if his production says otherwise. I like the player and his want to play on the team, but I really think he’s going to want north of 10 mil a year. And he isn’t worth that and isn’t worth 10 based on his production. I am shopping him if he is saying that

Somebody would give a 2nd for him I would think.

(04-20-2020, 04:47 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Dollars to donuts Mixon will want more even if his production says otherwise. I like the player and his want to play on the team, but I really think he’s going to want north of 10 mil a year. And he isn’t worth that and isn’t worth 10 based on his production. I am shopping him if he is saying that

Hard to tell for certain, but the "posturing" of the team having to prepare for a holdout certainly doesn't seem encouraging.  If he's that demanding that he can't be patient for diplomatic negotiations to occur, before the term potential holdout leaks to the sports media, then perhaps the Bengals should cover their interests and plan for the worst?

(04-20-2020, 06:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hard to tell for certain, but the "posturing" of the team having to prepare for a holdout certainly doesn't seem encouraging.  If he's that demanding that he can't be patient for diplomatic negotiations to occur, before the term potential holdout leaks to the sports media, then perhaps the Bengals should cover their interests and plan for the worst?

I’m saying if Mixon plans to hold out regardless of the new cba or anything else, if I’m the bengals and I’m cutting all distractions to have complete focus on the coming year I’m not looking to plan for anything except to trade Joe in favor of better team chemistry.

Don't forget it's not just Willie Gay Jr.'s off-field incendents that's an issue he also has on-field red flags. Lack of experience leads to a slow processor and only average instincts. Hes a hard hitter but doesnt have a very strong punch so he has issues stacking blockers. Poor vision scrapping laterally and bad angles lead to alot of missed plays.

He has a decent ceiling but his lack of experience means a low floor.

(04-20-2020, 08:15 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I’m saying if Mixon plans to hold out regardless of the new cba or anything else, if I’m the bengals and I’m cutting all distractions to have complete focus on the coming year I’m not looking to plan for anything except to trade Joe in favor of better team chemistry.

Well, and there's also the sketchy reporting that goes on these days to consider, as well.  No specific words were attributed to any specific party, leading to the possibility of writer's embellishment.

Really changed my mind about Willie. He seems alright in the head.

Thanks for the vid Okeana. Sometimes I judge a bit early in the Draft.

Thanks again. I am for Drafting William Gay Jr now in the mid rounds.

(04-20-2020, 11:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Really changed my mind about Willie. He seems alright in the head.

Thanks for the vid Okeana. Sometimes I judge a bit early in the Draft.

Thanks again. I am for Drafting William Gay Jr now in the mid rounds.

Me too! But, I don't think he'll be around in the 4th. 
I'm still hoping that the Bengals trade down from #33 and gain either another late 2nd or early 3rd. 
Then, they will have the ammo to get 2 LBers out of those next 3 picks potentially. Or, even 1 like Willie with one of their 3rds if still there. 
I'm big on Logan Wilson near the 3rd, Malik Harrison near the 3rd, and Evan Weaver in the 4th or 5th as well. 

(04-20-2020, 11:29 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Me too! But, I don't think he'll be around in the 4th. 
I'm still hoping that the Bengals trade down from #33 and gain either another late 2nd or early 3rd. 
Then, they will have the ammo to get 2 LBers out of those next 3 picks potentially. Or, even 1 like Willie with one of their 3rds if still there. 
I'm big on Logan Wilson near the 3rd, Malik Harrison near the 3rd, and Evan Weaver in the 4th or 5th as well. 

Feel the same Jersey. Just don't want to leave out Akeem Davis Gaither or Justin Strnad,