(04-24-2020, 10:07 AM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Just because you draft Josh Jones, doesn't mean he's going to start at LT. We already have our starter in Williams. If they drafted an OT in general, he would be competing for both OT spots. He would likely back up Left Tackle, and possibly start at Right Tackle.

Jones probably starts immediately at OG.

Some draft profiles even suggest he may move there in the NFL.

(04-24-2020, 09:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The big hole on our line is at OG.  Jones would be fine there.

RT is also a hole. Whether you want to admit it or not. Hart is not a starting RT on a good team.

(04-24-2020, 10:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: RT is also a hole. Whether you want to admit it or not. Hart is not a starting RT on a good team.

I am not saying Hart is a star, but the fact is he is much better at RT than ANYONE we have to play OG.  We only have one second round pick.

(04-24-2020, 09:55 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: Great share, B or B.  (BTW, glad you're not Bust).  I'm all in for Jones.

To those who say that edge rusher is more of a premium position (Epenesa, Gross-Matos):  you've also got to block those guys.

Then this guys  see the same tape and probably more than we do and mixed reviews on Jones as a 1st round talent and actually if he is ready for NFL starter first day and I still don;t see him as a good fit.. I don;t want to draft another left tackle .. i don;t want to move Williams and seems Jones would be a project at right tackle.. im happy taking Peart from Conn....either in 3rd or if you don;t draft Baun.. trade back get Peart late 2nd round.. and maybe another 3rd out of that trade

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/josh-jones/EdwZbsWiZA

(04-24-2020, 10:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: RT is also a hole. Whether you want to admit it or not. Hart is not a starting RT on a good team.

Jones can play both so you let him try his hand at both and wherever he wins, he wins. 

(04-24-2020, 09:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Hart improved tremendously last year.  Most fans refuse to admit that.  We are MUCH thinner at OG.  I like Jordans potential, but he looked bad last year.

I get that and agree, but Josh Jones isn't a candidate to play guard.
If Jones is drafted, he has to either ride the bench (fans won't be happy) or take the place of Williams or Hart at OT.
They could keep Hart where he is, move Williams to LG, and put Jones at LT, but I don't think they want to move Williams away from OT just yet.

Plus, Hart might actually do better at OG, which is where he was projected to play when entering the draft.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/bobby-hart?id=2552335

(04-24-2020, 10:30 AM)Au165 Wrote: Jones can play both so you let him try his hand at both and wherever he wins, he wins. 

really?? can you show some tape playing right tackle.. i thought he only played left tackle in college

(04-24-2020, 10:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I get that and agree, but Josh Jones isn't a candidate to play guard.

Sure he is.  College OTs play OG in the NFL all the time.  Some draft analysts even mentioned Jones moving to OG in the NFL.

Whitworth was originally drafted to replace Steinbach at OG.

(04-24-2020, 09:58 AM)Big Boss Wrote: I'm just as excited for Williams to come back as anyone, and I hope he's as advertised, but the fact remains that he hasn't taken a meaningful snap of football in a while.  He's an untested rookie coming off of injury.  Like it or not, the jury is still out on him.  

We can say the same for Burrow.. any rookie the jury is out.. but he was considered one of the best picks of the draft last year.. and could actually have been brought off injury late last season so I still have to stand by why move our top lineman pick for Jones.. i don;t like it

(04-24-2020, 10:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Sure he is.  College OTs play OG in the NFL all the time.  Some draft analysts even mentioned Jones moving to OG in the NFL.

Whitworth was originally drafted to replace Steinbach at OG.

I haven't seen any draft analysts mention that, but then again I haven't tried to read/listen to every single one I can find either.
I also thought he had 35" arms, which was wrong. He's the same length as Williams, who people were talking about moving inside last year too.

I agree though, OG is the worst position on the OL right now, but Hart isn't exactly a franchise-caliber RT (yet) either.

(04-24-2020, 10:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not saying Hart is a star, but the fact is he is much better at RT than ANYONE we have to play OG.  We only have one second round pick.

I’m not sure I agree with that. XSF filled in on the best OL in the league. There’s no way Dallas would start Bobby Hart in a meaningful game.

I would go Baun or Jones. I may lean towards Jones because we drafted Burrow. I'm all for investing in keeping him protected. Baun's tape looks pretty damn good though.

(04-24-2020, 02:04 AM)BleedOnB Wrote: Agreed!! I’ve been very weary of Josh Jones since day 1. Read his scouting report people. It is eerily similar to our boy Cedric Ogbuehi. Lots of athleticism but lacks techniques and form of a good offensive tackle and needs LOTS of coaching. I really don’t want this guy. I would much rather have Ezra Cleveland and hopefully trade back to get him. I would also be ok with Baun or Mims, but if it’s not 1 of them hopefully we can trade back.

PFF is very high on Jones and claim he has the best pass sets of any tackle in the draft.He can also play guard.I probably would lean to Jones for our next pick,Baun behind him. 

(04-24-2020, 10:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m not sure I agree with that. XSF filled in on the best OL in the league. There’s no way Dallas would start Bobby Hart in a meaningful game.

First of all arguing based on stuff you just make up in your head is not very effective.

XSF played because of injury.  Hart would do the same if he was a back up with the Cowboys.

I think they trade down, given plenty of talent available but not one "gotta have him", and I would be on board if I were confident on what they could get. Does trading down 5-10 picks in the second get you a 3rd or a 4th?

Anyone know a good site for draft trade history...all I've found are straight historical picks?

I'd take Baun over Jones, but truthfully I think both are developmental, boom or bust players. I see a lot of Ogbuehi in Jones, and Baun seems to have to same skill set as Lawson. And as others have said, the opinions on Jones vary widely -- e.g., NFL.com has him in the 50s.

At this point, I'd prefer to go with someone safer. McKinney would be my pick. I think he can do it all -- FS, SS, slot corner, cut Williams and pair him with Bell and you have a very solid defensive backfield.

After McKinney, I'd probably go Baun or Gross-Matos, who I think will be a solid, if not spectacular, NFL player, like a Justin Smith.

Then I'd probably go CB, Diggs or Johnson, then WR, Higgins or Pittman. I don't like Mims.

Most interesting scenario is if they're convinced that Mixon will hold out, or they don't want to pay him $10 mil+ per year, they have Swift, Taylor, and Dobbins just sitting there. I'd be fine with any of those guys.

Why is everyone talking about Jones? Why not Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State? According to ESPN, he’s higher a higher rated OT than Jones is.

(04-24-2020, 10:50 AM)BurnsBengal Wrote: I think they trade down, given plenty of talent available but not one "gotta have him", and I would be on board if I were confident on what they could get.  Does trading down 5-10 picks in the second get you a 3rd or a 4th?  

Anyone know a good site for draft trade history...all I've found are straight historical picks?

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

This chart is not 100% exact, but it will give you a rough idea of what we could get.

Trading back 10 spots would be worth a late third round pick.

(04-24-2020, 10:01 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This.  You can't burn a second round pick as insurance for a guy you just gave $18 million.

Still take at least one or even two WRs later in the draft that have the potential to develop into NFL starters.  I still see it as a position of need, but the reason we franchised Green is so that we would not have to use a high pick on WR this year (hopefully)

Sure you can.  A second round contract is a fraction of AJ Green's franchise money or an extension.  Ditto Ross.  It isn't insurance.  It is planning for next year with a guy that can make an immediate impact on offense.  Look at how many weapons KC has on offense.  The Bengals have a lot of similar players at WR outside Green and Ross, both of who have been oft-injured and Ross has been inconsistent.  

As I mentioned earlier, the drop off behind Mims, Higgins, and Claypool for WRs that can line up all over and have all the tools is significant.  Not so for LB or Guard and I don't see Jones necessarily taking the job of Hart/Johnson.  Say he starts at RG.  Is he a huge upgrade over XSF?  Would we use the #33 pick overall on a guard with a lot of question marks?  I would not.  Mims was a standout at the Senior Bowl week and has every tool.  Players like that usually require a first round pick and an early one.  We can get a LB in Rd 3.  Lots available.  We can get a G in Rd 4.  Still plenty there.  WR is different.  

(04-24-2020, 10:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all arguing based on stuff you just make up in your head is not very effective.

XSF played because of injury.  Hart would do the same if he was a back up with the Cowboys.

I like our line better with 

Williams Jordan/Xsf Hopkins Jones Hart

Than 

Williams Jordan Hopkins XSF Jones