Agree OP, though I would add it isn't just up to the coaches... it's also going to be up to the players to be all in on this too. Veterans to help mentor the youth wave, and the draft picks to develop themselves into winners. Of course this can come with good coaching, but coaching matters not if the players aren't invested. I don't doubt they're excited about this team currently however.

But yeah, bigger question mark is the coached. Woefully not proven and following an appalling year of results last year. We're expecting a big jump from guys who haven't proven anything, solely as they are now coaching Joe Burrow.

Hopefully last year was just a case of needing to grow into the job, but I am concerned that the poor slate of coaches we have will be a limiter on this team.

(04-27-2020, 01:11 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: The two coaching areas I’m most concerned with are Jim Turner coaching up less talented guys and ZT’s play calling.

I'm not concerned at all with Jim Turner. He took a train wreck of an offensive line and had them playing decent by the end of the season, which is miraculous since they are not allowed to really practice things once the season starts.  I do wish Taylor would give up the play calling to the OC though.

It’s going to come to down to 2 things, our offensive line and coaching.

The skill positions on offense could be the best ever if everyone stays healthy. This group so ridiculously talented once you add Tee into the mix with Ross, AJ, Boyd and Mixon and Burrow. If the line can come together the offense could be stellar. But we have to accept that line has a lot of new and unproven parts and a coach that’s not known for his inspiring leadership.

Again, we amassed talent now on the defense to shore up weaknesses and it’s there to compete with any team now. Can they be coached up? Who knows? Our staff is unproven and we were horrible last year. Sure, lots of excuses for that but we still don’t know if this staff can out coach opposing teams. I expect improvement but is that 6-10? 8-8? How long will it take to come together and do we have the depth if injuries hit us again?

I am excited as always. Bengals fans live for the off-season because reality hits us once the games start up.

So much potential it’s insane.

Burrow said in an interview that the Bengals asked him to send them his 10 favorite plays from the LSU offense and they are incorporating them into their offense. Love it.

(04-28-2020, 08:44 AM)Fullrock Wrote: Burrow said in an interview that the Bengals asked him to send them his 10 favorite plays from the LSU offense and they are incorporating them into their offense. Love it.

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about NFL coaching or hell, even basic Xs & Os in football, but this seems like a sound and smart practice to let Joe have input like this.

(04-28-2020, 08:38 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm not concerned at all with Jim Turner. He took a train wreck of an offensive line and had them playing decent by the end of the season, which is miraculous since they are not allowed to really practice things once the season starts.  I do wish Taylor would give up the play calling to the OC though.

I'm not ok with decent. I want a Super Bowl, so I want the best line in the league.

(04-28-2020, 11:12 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: I'm not ok with decent. I want a Super Bowl, so I want the best line in the league.

And decent is a stretch. They were easily bottom 5 in the league in most statistics. I'd feel better with decent line play, as that would imply at least average-ish play.

In regards to the O-line, I was watching some analysis on successful O-lines over the years and the analyst made the claim that you really only need a premier LT for the blindside and a stud C. If you have those two things, you're essentially set. In their opinion, Gs and RTs can be constantly changed and tweaked without too huge of an impact on the O performance.

We MAY have our answer at LT, we can hope. If Jonah is as advertised, that should help immensely this year. I think we forget we were swinging out guys who hadn't even played Tackle before to be our LT!!! Unspeakable!

In regards to C, Hopkins is decent, but I would love if we could nab a true pro-bowl caliber C for Joe in next years draft. Jeff Saturday was a huge reason Peyton Manning had success early in his career. A good Center can be a QBs best friend. Too bad Billy Price has been a major bust.

If these guys were onto something and this is relatively true, we may not be as far away from an average to above average line than we think we are.

(04-28-2020, 11:24 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: In regards to the O-line, I was watching some analysis on successful O-lines over the years and the analyst made the claim that you really only need a premier LT for the blindside and a stud C. If you have those two things, you're essentially set. In their opinion, Gs and RTs can be constantly changed and tweaked without too huge of an impact on the O performance.

We MAY have our answer at LT, we can hope. If Jonah is as advertised, that should help immensely this year. I think we forget we were swinging out guys who hadn't even played Tackle before to be our LT!!! Unspeakable!

In regards to C, Hopkins is decent, but I would love if we could nab a true pro-bowl caliber C for Joe in next years draft. Jeff Saturday was a huge reason Peyton Manning had success early in his career. A good Center can be a QBs best friend. Too bad Billy Price has been a major bust.

If these guys were onto something and this is relatively true, we may not be as far away from an average to above average line than we think we are.

Would that imply average G play? I can't imagine that if you have Billy Price at guard will "not be a big deal" if you have a stud LT and C. But I agree with you last sentence, we can get to decent line play fairly quickly. I think it'll be better this year, but I worry more about Jonahs health and play in that regards as the indicator

(04-28-2020, 11:30 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Would that imply average G play? I can't imagine that if you have Billy Price at guard will "not be a big deal" if you have a stud LT and C. But I agree with you last sentence, we can get to decent line play fairly quickly. I think it'll be better this year, but I worry more about Jonahs health and play in that regards as the indicator

That is what they were getting at. You can cycle through average level guards, no need over-spend to retain a Kevin Zeitler. Obviously you will want to replace any below-average performers, but you can make-do with average as long as you have the premier LT and stud C.

(04-28-2020, 11:24 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: In regards to the O-line, I was watching some analysis on successful O-lines over the years and the analyst made the claim that you really only need a premier LT for the blindside and a stud C. If you have those two things, you're essentially set. In their opinion, Gs and RTs can be constantly changed and tweaked without too huge of an impact on the O performance.

We MAY have our answer at LT, we can hope. If Jonah is as advertised, that should help immensely this year. I think we forget we were swinging out guys who hadn't even played Tackle before to be our LT!!! Unspeakable!

In regards to C, Hopkins is decent, but I would love if we could nab a true pro-bowl caliber C for Joe in next years draft. Jeff Saturday was a huge reason Peyton Manning had success early in his career. A good Center can be a QBs best friend. Too bad Billy Price has been a major bust.

If these guys were onto something and this is relatively true, we may not be as far away from an average to above average line than we think we are.

(04-28-2020, 11:30 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Would that imply average G play? I can't imagine that if you have Billy Price at guard will "not be a big deal" if you have a stud LT and C. But I agree with you last sentence, we can get to decent line play fairly quickly. I think it'll be better this year, but I worry more about Jonahs health and play in that regards as the indicator

Depth is a concern too. What happens if Williams or Hopkins gets hurt.

(04-28-2020, 01:02 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Depth is a concern too. What happens if Williams or Hopkins gets hurt.

Without a doubt, that was the issue last year. Jonah went down and the entire plan to fix the line got dismantled.

It's still crazy to me that we had put John Miller out there at LT for a game. Such a desperation move.

My comments about average Gs and RT still demand improvement for our OL. Unfortunately we have a lot of subpar talent there.

I don't want to be the "wet blanket," but I really don't have high expectations for this year. There's a bunch of reasons:

1. You don't overhaul the roster with all these free agents and draft picks and have immediate success. It rarely happens.
2. A rookie QB is a tough spot to be in with this type of "virtual" offseason
3. The offensive line is still in transition. We don't even know who the starting 5 will be
4. We have subpar talent on the O-line. I know the coaches like them, but we have a long history of "coaches" guys like Ghiacuc, Bodine, Livings etc
5. We are in a tough division
6. We will heavily rely on rookie LBs to cover guys. There's bound to be some significant learning curves

I would be very happy with 6-10. I just think it's going to be a huge struggle.

2020 - 6-10
2021 - 9-7 team on the rise and finally win a playoff game
2022 - AFC Title

Call me crazy, but I can see it

(04-28-2020, 11:41 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: That is what they were getting at. You can cycle through average level guards, no need over-spend to retain a Kevin Zeitler. Obviously you will want to replace any below-average performers, but you can make-do with average as long as you have the premier LT and stud C.

I wouldn't be too sure about discounting the value of good Guard play.  I'll give you a great example in Roger Saffold.  The Titans signing of Saffold was the piece they needed next to Lewan to complete their OL as one of the NFL's strongest units.  The Ram's OL was so devastated by his departure that they made a trade of a 5th round pick to Cleveland for Austin Corbett.  

I would say this is a make or break from some of the coaches. We had 8 losses by one score or less last season. If we can stay relatively healthy along with our key additions, then I think we should have 8 wins minimum. I could see the FO chalking up a 7-9 record to rookies since we're most likely going to have 3 rookies starting for us next season. However, if this team produces 6 or fewer wins, then some heads need to roll. 

(04-28-2020, 09:23 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I'm not going to pretend I know anything about NFL coaching or hell, even basic Xs & Os in football, but this seems like a sound and smart practice to let Joe have input like this.

I'm gonna go on record saying those ten will just be the first ten.

(04-28-2020, 11:24 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote:  Jeff Saturday was a huge reason Peyton Manning had success early in his career. 

Jeff Saturday was also an undrafted free agent.  

(04-29-2020, 01:33 AM)offside Wrote: Jeff Saturday was also an undrafted free agent.  

So was 8x Pro Bowler Jason Peters. You never know with these UDFA guys...

(04-27-2020, 01:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: "There are three things which can happen when you pass the ball; two of them bad."  -  Woody Hayes

Let's be specific about exactly what makes Joe Burrow prolific.  It wasn't how many passes he threw; it was how many he completed.  I'm looking at the LSU 2019 game statistics and Burrow only threw more than 40 passes three times all season and in two cases he only threw 24.  However, he went 21/24 both times.

Why are you quoting a guy that coached in the days they ran the ball twice as much as passing it? His era has no reflection on todays NFL.

(04-27-2020, 12:36 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Okay, Bengaldom!  This has been a most successful offseason, don't you think?  Cincinnati, after decades of treating free agency like a virus they were trying to avoid, finally got in the game and crushed it.  Adding DJ Reader, Josh Bynes, Trae Waynes, Shaun Sims, Mackensie Alexander, and Von Bell on defense and adding Xavier Su'a-Filo and Isaiah Prince on offense were all great moves -- and then what happened with this year's draft class was simply amazing in combination.

The Bengals should be a vastly improved team in 2020 if -- and only if -- the coaches and coordinators can come up with offensive and defensive playbooks which leverage this team's recently increased talent level.

I'm not worried about the defense at all, to tell the truth.  Lou Anarumo has morphed the defense from a 4-3 base to a 3-4-ish hybrid with lots of edge rushers.  Facing Lamar Jackson twice a year has forced his hand somewhat; I understand this.  Lou also no doubt saw the Bengals' inability to cover opposing tight ends and the linebackers selected in the draft should help with coverage in space.  The secondary will look completely different as well which will be a relief for us all.  Lou finally has the players on board to make his ideal defensive playbook come to life.

Zac Taylor and Brian Callahan are the wild cards, however.  Dusting off last year's offensive playbook combined with atrocious play calling will be a recipe for disaster.  Drawing as much as possible from LSU's offensive scheme will be the best route toward assuring Joe Burrow will be a success in the NFL; it's much more promising to develop the Cincinnati offense around what Burrow can do vice fitting him into an existing system.  That was the difference between Joe's 2018 season and his 2019 season at LSU.

Also, it's time to ditch the "throw it 55 times a game" philosophy.  Jim Turner has a few months to turn this revamped offensive line into run blocking beasts.  A good offense in the NFL is balanced these days and during late season playoff runs in the AFC North a clock-chewing run game can make all the difference in the world.

It seems like a mess the past few years, I don't know when we started to abandon the run early. This organization so far has shown it's not able to consistently (or really ever) blow someone out, lol. With that in mind, we probably need to keep games close and have a closer mentality (meaning if it's close, we can win, even if we're behind).

Getting down 10-0 or 14-0 it seems like that's when Andy threw 55 times lol.

I would love to see Burrow run the score up, though.