(05-02-2020, 07:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Umm...Garrett, Mahomes, Watson, Adams, McCaffrey, Fournette, Lattimore, Watt, Cook, Mixon, JuJu...

Fournette was one of the players who did not get his 5th year option picked up :)

Ross has proven one thing. He can't stay on the field.

Having blazing speed is nice, but if you drop lots of balls (and most of them right on your hands) along with BAD route running and constant problems playing the ball correctly in the air then you are not a real threat. Ross could be one if he ever learns how to play the WR position properly.

(05-02-2020, 07:44 PM)impactplaya Wrote: If Ross has  a good productive year then that
Means the offense is really doing good
Really don't undestand the hate for this guy.
He's been hurt and one injury he suffered last year
You can't pin on him

Interesting poem.  What do you call it?  Ode to John Ross?  

(05-02-2020, 07:07 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The real question is, if Ross goes out and puts up 800-1000 yards and 8-10 scores this year, do they extend him. Ross’s problem is not production, it’s availability. He has far more upside than Tate, and could easily stay on as WR3 if Green does not return. Marvin and company limited Ross’s chances initially, and the nagging injuries limited him more. You can’t teach 4.22, and Ross showed in college the ability to run a full route tree.

Unless there’s an injury to Green/Boyd/Higgins, there aren’t enough passes to go around for a #4 WR to reach those levels. I wouldn’t be shocked if Ross is traded before the season starts.

A healthy WR group is so deep:
Green
Boyd
Higgins
Ross
Tate
Erickson/Morgan/Willis/Thomas/Washington

(05-02-2020, 07:07 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The real question is, if Ross goes out and puts up 800-1000 yards and 8-10 scores this year, do they extend him.  Ross’s problem is not production, it’s availability.  He has far more upside than Tate, and could easily stay on as WR3 if Green does not return.  Marvin and company limited Ross’s chances initially, and the nagging injuries limited him more.  You can’t teach 4.22, and Ross showed in college the ability to run a full route tree.

He needs to earn his next contract. So far he hasn't. Even if he does have a good year the team can't give him a huge contract because of his history.

His availability is one of his problems. But his production, outside of two games has been very poor.

Speed in one thing, but there is so more to the position and he doesn't see to have any of it.

In is second year, he played in 13 games with 10 starts and managed 210 yards. For an outside receiver that's pretty pathetic. He did, however, manage 7 TDs many by running routes along the back of the end zone.

In this third year, game 1, he had 158 yards and 2 TDs. Game 2 he had 112 yards and 1 TD. He played in 6 more games last season and for those game he averaged 39.3 yards per game and he had 0 TDs. He disappeared.

Over the 3 years he's played in 24 of 48 games he has 716 yards 10 TDs.

Consider last year's 3rd round pick Terry McLaurin who started and played in 14, mostly with a rookie QB. He had 919 yards and 7 TDs. He ran a 4.35 at the combine.

Ross is replaceable. Very replaceable. His speed is replaceable. His production is replaceable.

Draft a guy with bad knees because he was fast. Derp

I'm still rooting for it all to click with Ross this upcoming season. I hope he performs well & has longevity and success with the Bengals.

(05-02-2020, 07:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Isn't this usually the time of year where we start complaining that the ho-hum vet WRs on our roster are going to get in the way of the whizzbang new talented WRs we just drafted?  At what point do we start looking at Ross as the one keeping the young guys down?

One issue was that we saw what the young guys like Morgan and Willis had last year and they make Ross look like Julio Jones.  Another is Green and Tate, along with Ross, are constantly hurt, so you have to have depth guys that can produce.  For all his issues, he's still the 3rd most productive WR on the roster when healthy.  When the guys behind him actually start outperforming him, then it's time to cut bait.

They should decline his 4th year

I hope it does effect his confidence. 

Seems like the smartest thing to do. You don't have to pay him the high number sight unseen but you can still re-sign him if he has a good year.

Looking at the numbers it seems lIke last year
When Ross was targeted more than 7 times
In a game he was productive.
Funny how people want to.hate on Ross yet cant
See that the offense was a cluster you know what
For the most part in 2019.
I mean really how long long did it take for ZT and
Callahan to figure out that Mixon should get X amount
Of carries in order to see a more productive offense
How long did it take for ZT to actually target the TES
More ?
How many times did any of you see Ross get the ball
In his hands other than catches downfield ?
Ross's speed was not exploited on the most creative
Ways in 2019.
The woes of the offense last year was due to 67 ,000
Different oline combos , Callahan and ZT struggling
As playcallers, AJ out the whole year and uninspiring
Creativity

Barring an injury to Green, I see no way of him posting any significant numbers.

Your WRs in terms of reps/targets most likely goes: 1.) Green 2.) Boyd 3.) Higgins

Then you have to account for the potential amount of PT that Auden Tate has earned as well. This isn't to say that Tate automatically sees more looks or time, but only that he's deserving of consideration in the mix.

Even if you move Ross ahead of Higgins, or as a specialty role of sorts, the position group is too muddled to allow for some of the numbers referenced (800-1000 yards). It's simply not happening without a total dud of a season from the top 3 I listed above.

I would have loved to move on from AJ and used that money elsewhere. I think Boyd, Higgins, Ross, and Tate would have been an adequate corp, that would allowed for growth and future scouting and planning. And maybe Ross could've developed into a legit WR, maybe not. But I think that chance is gone from happening here.

Not picking up the option is a no-brainer regardless of AJ. It wasn't happening either way. But if you wanted him back at 18 mil, which many did, then you essentially buried Ross chances.

Ross would most likely be cut now if not for dead money (5 mil). I suspect he'll be buried on the chart, and would be amazed if he sniffs 400 yards.

(05-02-2020, 10:58 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Barring an injury to Green, I see no way of him posting any significant numbers.

Your WRs in terms of reps/targets most likely goes: 1.) Green 2.) Boyd 3.) Higgins

Then you have to account for the potential amount of PT that Auden Tate has earned as well.  This isn't to say that Tate automatically sees more looks or time, but only that he's deserving of consideration in the mix.

Even if you move Ross ahead of Higgins, or as a specialty role of sorts, the position group is too muddled to allow for some of the numbers referenced (800-1000 yards).  It's simply not happening without a total dud of a season from the top 3 I listed above.

I would have loved to move on from AJ and used that money elsewhere.  I think Boyd, Higgins, Ross, and Tate would have been an adequate corp, that would allowed for growth and future scouting and planning. And maybe Ross could've developed into a legit WR, maybe not.  But I think that chance is gone from happening here.

Not picking up the option is a no-brainer regardless of AJ. It wasn't happening either way. But if you wanted him back at 18 mil, which many did, then you essentially buried Ross chances.

Ross would most likely be cut now if not for dead money (5 mil).  I suspect he'll be buried on the chart, and would be amazed if he sniffs 400 yards.

I'm thinking maybe they'll be able to shake Ross loose on some splash plays a time or two a game.  I can't see him running a lot of patterns in the middle of the field.  He could be fourth on the team in receptions and still make an impact.  That was probably the plan for him last year.

As to AJ, I'm guessing he will will be on a mission this year playing for a contract and I like the idea of having that guy around.

I hope Ross goes out there this season and tears it up. Who knows perhaps Burrow can help him turn it around ?

But I don't have a lot of faith it will happen. One of the main reasons I wanted a WR at 33.

Any Bengals fan in their right mind wants Ross (and every other Bengal player) to succeed. If he has a good year with Burrow, he should want to come back. If he doesn't have a good year (or gets hurt again), we replace him.

(05-02-2020, 07:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He really only had a great Week 1 last year. He was a non-factor in Week 2 until deep in garbage time when he got a long TD. 

If he doesn't vastly improve his hands/effort/routes in 2020 then it doesn't matter of he has speed or not. Speed on a place other than where you throw the ball, or speed with no hands, is a waste of one of your 11 on O.

- - - - - -
EDITED FOR INFO: Ross had 3 catches for 46 yards until he scored a 66 yard TD with 56 seconds left in a 41-10 game. It was the garbage-ist of garbage time TDs.

Yep. Being really, really fast while going to the wrong spot or dropping the ball just doesn't quite do it for everyone.

 

(05-02-2020, 09:59 PM)Kingslayer Wrote: Draft a guy with bad knees because he was fast.  Derp

It was good to see Marvin come out of the woods and talk about Andy, I wish he would also comment about this disaster pick which is obvious he was vehemently against.

Wouldn't be surprised if Ross hardly plays to stay healthy (aka feign injury) and hope to get signed by some other team, because Ross.

(05-02-2020, 10:58 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Barring an injury to Green, I see no way of him posting any significant numbers.

Your WRs in terms of reps/targets most likely goes: 1.) Green 2.) Boyd 3.) Higgins

Then you have to account for the potential amount of PT that Auden Tate has earned as well.  This isn't to say that Tate automatically sees more looks or time, but only that he's deserving of consideration in the mix.

Even if you move Ross ahead of Higgins, or as a specialty role of sorts, the position group is too muddled to allow for some of the numbers referenced (800-1000 yards).  It's simply not happening without a total dud of a season from the top 3 I listed above.

I would have loved to move on from AJ and used that money elsewhere.  I think Boyd, Higgins, Ross, and Tate would have been an adequate corp, that would allowed for growth and future scouting and planning. And maybe Ross could've developed into a legit WR, maybe not.  But I think that chance is gone from happening here.

Not picking up the option is a no-brainer regardless of AJ. It wasn't happening either way. But if you wanted him back at 18 mil, which many did, then you essentially buried Ross chances.

Ross would most likely be cut now if not for dead money (5 mil).  I suspect he'll be buried on the chart, and would be amazed if he sniffs 400 yards.

Sadly, Green, Ross, and Tate have missed a combined 47 games over the past two years.  Whoever plays in this WR group is likely going to be whoever can answer the bell on game day.

In an ideal world with everyone healthy, they are probably going to be rolling with more 4 WR looks because Burrow excels with 5 man protections and they're incorporating the LSU offense into ours.  In that case, you put Ross out there as the 4th guy because his speed keeps the defense from bringing the blitz to try and shell shock your rookie QB.  I don't really see how Tate earned more PT.  He averaged 47 yards a game last year, didn't score a single TD, and had the exact same same catch % as Ross despite the "catches everything thrown to him" myth.  He's also very limited in his effective route tree, lacking the deep speed to challenge deep and the short area quickness for a lot of short routes.  

Money aside, there's no way he would have been cut by now because he was one of the 3 best WR's on the roster the past two years.