(05-03-2020, 12:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ross has much more potentiual than Auden Tate.  If both play up to their potential Ross will out perform Tate.

I don't have much faith in either of them becomiong a good NFL WR.  Whoever our #4 WR is will catch some passes even if he is not very good.  

Why does Ross have more potential; cause he's faster? Tate is a physical freak that has shown an outstanding catch radius, the ability to make the circus catch, and strong hands. He was our 2nd leading receiver last year and it wasn't because Ross was first, 

I have more faith in Tate contributing to this team as a catcher, blocker, and Special Teamer. 

Fun fact: JR has taken 0 ST snaps in his career. 

(05-03-2020, 12:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why does Ross have more potential; cause he's faster? 

That is part of it, but mainly the fact that Ross has had much better production on the field in both college and the NFL.

In college Ross had more yards and tds in just his last season than tate had in his entire career.  In the NFL Ross has only played 5 more games than Tate but has ten times as many tds.  Last year Ross had more yards per game, receptions per game, tds per game, and yards per reception.

(05-03-2020, 12:43 PM)cj1895 Wrote: Really fast with zero football skills does not equal potential.

How do he score TD’s at the rate he does with “zero football skills?” Most of them are not just running by guys and getting wide open.

(05-03-2020, 12:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why does Ross have more potential; cause he's faster? Tate is a physical freak that has shown an outstanding catch radius, the ability to make the circus catch, and strong hands. He was our 2nd leading receiver last year and it wasn't because Ross was first, 

I have more faith in Tate contributing to this team as a catcher, blocker, and Special Teamer. 

Fun fact: JR has taken 0 ST snaps in his career. 

Ross is faster, has insane short area quickness, and can actually run a full route tree.  Tate was a 7th rounder for a reason.  You don't have to respect him deep and he can't change direction well enough to run a lot of short routes. For all the circus catches he does, Tate had the exact same catch % as Ross last year, 50%.  That's because he can't separate and defenders can play him more aggressively due to the fact that he has no deep speed.  

Tate averaged 47 yards a game last year while Ross averaged 63.  Ross is the more productive player on the field.  Also, over the last two years, Tate has missed more games than Ross has.  

ST's is fine, but neither Ross or Tate is getting cut.  They are both firmly in the top 5 WR's on the roster.  ST's is a good reason to keep one guy on the roster over another, but it's not a good reason to play one guy over another in the base offense.  You play the guy that's scored 10 TD's over the last two years over the guy that's scored 1.

(05-02-2020, 07:44 PM)impactplaya Wrote: If Ross has  a good productive year then that
Means the offense is really doing good
Really don't undestand the hate for this guy.
He's been hurt and one injury he suffered last year
You can't pin on him

I think the issues with Ross are fixable. Marvin crushed his confidence by benching him. Horrible coaching move for both the team and Ross. Also, either he's lazy or struggles to learn the playbook. That's fixable as well. I understand he's an adult, but some people need special attention to learn. Playbooks are not exactly easy to learn. It's a lot of information. I havent given up on Ross just yet because if worked with properly, he could be a lethal receiver. If our coaches can't bring out the best in him, another coaching staff will. ZT seems to be a no BS guy. If laziness is Ross's problem, he will be gone after this year.

(05-02-2020, 07:54 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Interesting poem.  What do you call it?  Ode to John Ross?  

That was the abridged version. 

(05-03-2020, 01:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is part of it, but mainly the fact that Ross has had much better production on the field in both college and the NFL.

In college Ross had more yards and tds in just his last season than tate had in his entire career.  In the NFL Ross has only played 5 more games than Tate but has ten times as many tds.  Last year Ross had more yards per game, receptions per game, tds per game, and yards per reception.

Can we use stats that most use like Yards and catches? Ross has a full year more experience than Auden and has 5 more catches and 100 more yards. And as mentioned Tate can do more than just catch passes.

Given Ross isn’t extended and price won’t/shouldn’t be, that should free up some funds to sign a good free agent ol that might become available


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tate spent a good part of his rookie year on the practice
Squad if I recall correctly. He was a project coming
Out of FSU. Then when he had a chance to play
Marvin for whatever reason opted to play Cody Core more
And looked stupid in the process.
Tate really improved last year
I heard a stat from PFF that Dalton was 30 out of 32
QB in regards to throwing uncatchable passes from a clean pocket
Burrow might help in throwing catchable targets
Downfield
Hopefully both WRs can stay healthy this year.
Burrow needs all the healthy WRs he can have

(05-03-2020, 05:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Can we use stats that most use like Yards and catches? Ross has a full year more experience than Auden and has 5 more catches and 100 more yards. And as mentioned Tate can do more than just catch passes.

Depends.  Can we use TD's if we're talking stats?  I mean, they are probably the most important offensive stat when it comes to winning games.

(05-03-2020, 12:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ross had over 500 receiving yards last year.  Almost half of those 3rd round WRs (21) never had a season with 500 yards.

Again, not trying to defend Ross.  Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.  An exception to a rule does not prove anything.

Doesn't need to be a 3rd round pick, even though it looks like half of them did have 500 yards. There's plenty of fast guys who can run routes and catch the ball who were not drafted as high as Ross. Bengals should look at getting one next season.

Ross is replaceable! Ross' speed is replaceable!

 

(05-03-2020, 09:17 PM)Whatever Wrote: Depends.  Can we use TD's if we're talking stats?  I mean, they are probably the most important offensive stat when it comes to winning games.

Sure Kenny Galloway is more important than Micheal Thomas

(05-03-2020, 10:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure Kenny Galloway is more important than Micheal Thomas

Who is Kenny Galloway?

If you're talking Kenny Golladay, I don't know that 11 TD's  vs 9 last year is worth 600 yards, although they play on different teams.  Golladay may arguably be more important to the Lions than Thomas to the Saints simply because the Lions don't have nearly as many good players.  Thomas also has 18 TD's over the past two seasons compared to 16 for Golladay, so it's hard to make an argument that Golladay is better.

When we're talking two guys on the same team and one has 10 TD's the past two seasons and the other has 1, it's pretty obvious, though.  

seems like any of our "prove it" contracts have failed lol. I hope ross can find something with Burrow.

Hopefully Ross uses this as motivation and has a huge year. Not counting on it. But not ruling it out. A new QB and AJ back demanding more attention from DBs could help him out.

(05-03-2020, 12:31 PM)McC Wrote: How reasonable is it to expect much from a 40 year old car in the first place?

Yeah I didn’t mean that. I date myself sadly. I meant back in that day when the thing was new off the lot.

(05-03-2020, 11:11 PM)Whatever Wrote: Who is Kenny Galloway?

If you're talking Kenny Golladay, I don't know that 11 TD's  vs 9 last year is worth 600 yards, although they play on different teams.  Golladay may arguably be more important to the Lions than Thomas to the Saints simply because the Lions don't have nearly as many good players.  Thomas also has 18 TD's over the past two seasons compared to 16 for Golladay, so it's hard to make an argument that Golladay is better.

When we're talking two guys on the same team and one has 10 TD's the past two seasons and the other has 1, it's pretty obvious, though.  

So are TDs the most important stat or not?

Don't let where John Ross was drafted cloud your judgement.

Ross showed he can be a play maker but has issues staying on the field. He is not worth a 15mil 5th year option but he could be a dangerous chess peice in 2020 for Zac Taylor and Joe Burrow.

Ross has definitely been a disappointment, but he started behind the 8 ball when he got here. Marvin wasn't a fan of his and basically threw him in the dog house right after his first fumble. Plus, Marvin is an old school coach and Ross is the kind of player that could benefit from a sports psychologist. I'd like to believe that Zac and company have a better appreciation for him, and we saw how good he could be at the beginning of 2019. If he can stay healthy, I think he can put up some nice numbers. 

With all of that said, the only way I see Ross coming back is us letting Green walk after this season and tagging Ross. Then draft a guy to take Ross's spot.

(05-03-2020, 05:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Can we use stats that most use like Yards and catches?

Those are the exact stats I used.  Plus tds.

But you have to look at "per game" because Tate played 4 more games than Ross last year.