Just when I was beginning to think that a day might come to see Pete reinstated and elected to the HoF, something ugly, like this has to surface..


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/former-montreal-expos-groundskeeper-joe-jammer-says-pete-rose-had-bats-corked/ar-BB13zCVO?ocid=spartandhp

Quote:Rose played most of the 1984 season for Montreal before he was traded to the Reds for Tom Lawless on Aug. 16.

An excerpt of what Danny Gallagher wrote for montrealgazette.com:
“Pete Rose would have his bats corked in the visitors’ clubhouse at Olympic Stadium,” Jammer said in a phone interview from London, England, where he is now a club-playing musician. “I found out he was corking bats.
“Pete was too smart to deal with Expos equipment manager John Silverman (to cork his bats in the Expos’ clubhouse). So Bryan Greenberg, who worked in the visitors’ clubhouse, did it,” Jammer said. “He took me into a room, a door to the left, and underneath tarps there was this machine.”
Jammer recalled that he asked Greenberg: “What’s that machine for?”
Jammer said Greenberg replied: “That’s a machine for corking Pete Rose’s bats.”
When Jammer told Greenberg he wanted to take a bat with him, Greenberg wouldn’t allow him to.
“The guy (Greenberg) was saying Rose had been corking his bat for 20 years,” Jammer said. “The guy said that nobody checks him because he’s a singles hitter.”
When the Gazzette on Thursday reached Greenberg by phone for a response, Greenberg said, “I really can’t answer those questions. I really can’t talk about it.”
Ryan Fiterman, one of Rose’s representatives, would not respond to the corking allegations when reached Thursday: “We are not doing any interviews at this time.”

Pete Rose stopped playing 34 years go. If this guy couldn't bring it up in 34 years, he can go **** himself.

This rumor has been around for a very long time. Supposedly a cork was seen in one of his bats that was XRayed. I can’t remember who but was it Sabo that got ejected for breaking a corked bat?

(05-04-2020, 06:09 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: This rumor has been around for a very long time. Supposedly a cork was seen in one of his bats that was XRayed. I can’t remember who but was it Sabo that got ejected for breaking a corked bat?

The corked bat thing in itself, isn't really that huge of a deal, as far as I'm concerned.  MIT did a scientific study on corked bats and found no significant advantage from using one, as far as adding more "pop" to the ball upon contact.  The lighter bat head likely gives more of a psychosomatic or "mental" advantage to the user, like a little boost in confidence.  In my mind, corked bats are no worse than doctoring the ball the way so many pitchers have done over the years.

What upsets me is that after all this time, some bored beat writer had to go digging up dirt on an already disgraced all-time great of the game.

(05-04-2020, 06:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The corked bat thing in itself, isn't really that huge of a deal, as far as I'm concerned.  MIT did a scientific study on corked bats and found no significant advantage from using one, as far as adding more "pop" to the ball upon contact.  The lighter bat head likely gives more of a psychosomatic or "mental" advantage to the user, like a little boost in confidence.  In my mind, corked bats are no worse than doctoring the ball the way so many pitchers have done over the years.

What upsets me is that after all this time, some bored beat writer had to go digging up dirt on an already disgraced all-time great of the game.

Yep, trying to get their name in National headlines.

IMO it doesnt matter if he did or didn't. Baseball players try to gain an advantage. How many players got busted in the HOF using pine tar and other sneaky tricks to try and gain a slight advantage? They just need to leave Pete alone. Dude was a great hall ass player who gave 100% all the time. Fantastic if not best baseball player ever.

You would think Pete had to break bats and the umps would have seen it. This is like a sex allegation years later. How do you prove it? You don't.

(05-04-2020, 07:39 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: You would think Pete had to break bats and the umps would have seen it. This is like a sex allegation years later. How do you prove it? You don't.

Reminds me of when John Dowd accused him of engaging in sexual acts with underage girls while he played, on the day before he was to be honored at GABP at the All-Star-Game.  That's a deadly serious accusation to sit on for what was apparently years and wait to drop at a particularly damaging time.  Getting justice for victims is one thing, but using them to settle scores is another, assuming there's even a shred of truth to the assertions (which are basically unprovable).

People in Cincinnati of a certain age range view Pete as a half-step below the almighty.  Everywhere else, you seem to find a lot of people that just plain love seeing him suffer.  

From my memories of playing baseball and our coach talking about corked bats when he grew up, power hitters never corked their bat, it would make the bat easier to break with a strong swing. A corked bat is used mainly to be lighter, for a faster swing and also to be easier to control/stop a check swing. It doesn't give you extra bounce off the bat but it does give you a faster swing.

I would not be surprised that Pete was corking his bat, but I believe this story is bullshit.

You would need a band saw and a drill press to cork a bat. No team would ever have those pieces of equipment anywhere in a stadium. They are not small enough to be easily hidden away

Bats were not corked by equipment managers at stadiums.

(05-04-2020, 07:08 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: IMO it doesnt matter if he did or didn't. Baseball players try to gain an advantage. How many players got busted in the HOF using pine tar and other sneaky tricks to try and gain a slight advantage? They just need to leave Pete alone. Dude was a great hall ass player who gave 100% all the time. Fantastic if not best baseball player ever.

Not even top 25 and arguable on top 50.

Has nothing to do with the post-playing days either: aside from a shit-ton of singles, he was never a top 3 player at his position, year in, year out.

George Foster, Johnny Bench, Barry Larkin, Joe Morgan were better players, off the top of my head.

(05-10-2020, 10:34 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not even top 25 and arguable on top 50.

Has nothing to do with the post-playing days either: aside from a shit-ton of singles, he was never a top 3 player at his position, year in, year out.

George Foster, Johnny Bench, Barry Larkin, Joe Morgan were better players, off the top of my head.

I agree that he wasn’t a top 25 player of all time. I don’t consider him to be a typical singles hitter. He had over a 1000 extra base hits or around 25% of his hits. He wasn’t close to a power hitter but wasn’t an Ozzie Smith type hitter either. Johnny Bench was obviously the best player that the Reds ever had. Tom Seaver and Frank Robinson were pretty damn good too. Pete’s long term consistency was absolutely amazing. His versatility at being an All Star at 5 different positions will never be matched. His hits title would fall before that does. I’ve never seen a list ranking the best players regardless of position though everyone knows who number 1 was.

(05-10-2020, 11:57 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I agree that he wasn’t a top 25 player of all time. I don’t consider him to be a typical singles hitter. He had over a 1000 extra base hits or around 25% of his hits. He wasn’t close to a power hitter but wasn’t an Ozzie Smith type hitter either. Johnny Bench was obviously the best player that the Reds ever had. Tom Seaver and Frank Robinson were pretty damn good too. Pete’s long term consistency was absolutely amazing. His versatility at being an All Star at 5 different positions will never be matched. His hits title would fall before that does. I’ve never seen a list ranking the best players regardless of position though everyone knows who number 1 was.

After I wrote what I did, Robinson IMMEDIATELY popped into my mind and I thought about editing my post, but didn't lol.

Don't get me wrong; he wasn't a slouch and did win a batting title or two (or three? Think it was 3), but aside from OF and (surprisingly, for his skillset) 2B, he was nothing more than average at any position; versatility, absolutely.

In terms of popularity, there are few players that could garner as much as him (at least, during the playing days), but I just always compare him to the man he surpassed in hits, as their hitting numbers are more in-line with each other, than say Barry Bonds or even Rickey Henderson.

Cobb just absolutely blows him out of the water and was much more prolific in every category (save homers), even in the deadball era.

(05-11-2020, 04:19 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: After I wrote what I did, Robinson IMMEDIATELY popped into my mind and I thought about editing my post, but didn't lol.

Don't get me wrong; he wasn't a slouch and did win a batting title or two (or three? Think it was 3), but aside from OF and (surprisingly, for his skillset) 2B, he was nothing more than average at any position; versatility, absolutely.

In terms of popularity, there are few players that could garner as much as him (at least, during the playing days), but I just always compare him to the man he surpassed in hits, as their hitting numbers are more in-line with each other, than say Barry Bonds or even Rickey Henderson.

Cobb just absolutely blows him out of the water and was much more prolific in every category (save homers), even in the deadball era.

Here’s a few stats for Pete 200 hits 10x’s, All Star 17x’s, Rookie of the year, 3 batting titles, 44 game hitting streak, 20+ game hitting streak 7x’s, WS mvp, league mvp top 10 10x’s, top 5 5x’s, mvp in 73. On base just shy of 6000 times. Highest modern day fielding percentage in RF and highest modern day fielding percentage in the NL at LF. He was way better than average.

Rose led the league in hits; finished second in batting (.325) and 10th in MVP voting; and won the Silver Slugger Award as the best hitting FIRST BASEMAN in the NL in 1981 WHEN HE WAS FORTY!

(05-10-2020, 10:34 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not even top 25 and arguable on top 50.

Has nothing to do with the post-playing days either: aside from a shit-ton of singles, he was never a top 3 player at his position, year in, year out.

George Foster, Johnny Bench, Barry Larkin, Joe Morgan were better players, off the top of my head.

Truck I've gotta disagree with you here ol buddy. 

Was Pete Rose a great athlete ? No Was he a great baseball player ? Yes

I don't know if you're old enough to have seen Rose play in his heyday in the late 60's 70's ? But the guy went 110% on every play no matter the situation ! Johnny Bench described Rose in an interview something like this "Pete would run through a fire in a suit soaked in gasoline to play baseball". Was Pete gonna win a sprinting, jumping, swimming, etc. competition ? No

But you had your hands full playing him if you were on the other team. He had excellent hand/eye coordination and quickness, reaction time.

Rose had 170 hits as a rookie, led the league in hits 7X, he had over 200 hits in 10 seasons, 13 seasons in a row he had 185 hits+ ! He played in 150+ games in 17 seasons. He played in 148+ games 16 seasons in a row.

Here's the awards on wiki:

Peter Edward Rose (born April 14, 1941), also known by his nickname "Charlie Hustle", is an American former professional baseball player and manager. Rose played in Major League Baseball (MLB) from 1963 to 1986, and managed the Cincinnati Reds from 1984 to 1989.

Rose was a switch hitter and is the all-time MLB leader in hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053), singles (3,215), and outs (10,328).[1] He won three World Series rings, three batting titles, one Most Valuable Player Award, two Gold Gloves, and the Rookie of the Year Award, and also made 17 All-Star appearances at an unequaled five positions (second baseman, left fielder, right fielder, third baseman, and first baseman). Rose won both of his Gold Gloves when he was an outfielder, in 1969 and 1970.

One could go on and on. Again Rose was not a great athlete, but he was a great, GREAT baseball player. 

(05-12-2020, 08:44 AM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Here’s a few stats for Pete 200 hits 10x’s, All Star 17x’s, Rookie of the year, 3 batting titles, 44 game hitting streak, 20+ game hitting streak 7x’s, WS mvp, league mvp top 10 10x’s, top 5 5x’s, mvp in 73. On base just shy of 6000 times. Highest modern day fielding percentage in RF and highest modern day fielding percentage in the NL at LF. He was way better than average.

Average defensively

(05-12-2020, 03:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Truck I've gotta disagree with you here ol buddy.

Was Pete Rose a great athlete ? No Was he a great baseball player ? Yes

I don't know if you're old enough to have seen Rose play in his heyday in the late 60's 70's ? But the guy went 110% on every play no matter the situation ! Johnny Bench described Rose in an interview something like this "Pete would run through a fire in a suit soaked in gasoline to play baseball". Was Pete gonna win a sprinting, jumping, swimming, etc. competition ? No

But you had your hands full playing him if you were on the other team. He had excellent hand/eye coordination and quickness, reaction time.

Rose had 170 hits as a rookie, led the league in hits 7X, he had over 200 hits in 10 seasons, 13 seasons in a row he had 185 hits+ ! He played in 150+ games in 17 seasons. He played in 148+ games 16 seasons in a row.

Here's the awards on wiki:

Peter Edward Rose (born April 14, 1941), also known by his nickname "Charlie Hustle", is an American former professional baseball player and manager. Rose played in Major League Baseball (MLB) from 1963 to 1986, and managed the Cincinnati Reds from 1984 to 1989.

Rose was a switch hitter and is the all-time MLB leader in hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053), singles (3,215), and outs (10,328).[1] He won three World Series rings, three batting titles, one Most Valuable Player Award, two Gold Gloves, and the Rookie of the Year Award, and also made 17 All-Star appearances at an unequaled five positions (second baseman, left fielder, right fielder, third baseman, and first baseman). Rose won both of his Gold Gloves when he was an outfielder, in 1969 and 1970.

One could go on and on. Again Rose was not a great athlete, but he was a great, GREAT baseball player.

Indeed he was and he more than deserves the HOF.

I was merely responding to Mike/Harley's post about him being the greatest ever.

Even with the accolades, etc., he still isn't top 25, arguable on top 50.

Plainly put, if I'm fielding a 25-man roster (I know they are now 26) or even a 40-man September roster of all-time players, Rose wouldn't be on either of them.

(05-12-2020, 03:43 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Average defensively



Indeed he was and he more than deserves the HOF.

I was merely responding to Mike/Harley's post about him being the greatest ever.

Even with the accolades, etc., he still isn't top 25, arguable on top 50.

Plainly put, if I'm fielding a 25-man roster (I know they are now 26) or even a 40-man September roster of all-time players, Rose wouldn't be on either of them.

Well his ass would be outside of wherever you hold the ceremony selling autographs.

(05-12-2020, 03:43 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Average defensively



Indeed he was and he more than deserves the HOF.

I was merely responding to Mike/Harley's post about him being the greatest ever.

Even with the accolades, etc., he still isn't top 25, arguable on top 50.

Plainly put, if I'm fielding a 25-man roster (I know they are now 26) or even a 40-man September roster of all-time players, Rose wouldn't be on either of them.

Rose would make the perfect bench player on an all time team. You have a 200 hit a season player that can play 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, and RF at anytime. Late in games, he could shift positions if injury or to save a certain PH. He wasn’t a good guy but the dude always gave it his all to win.

(05-17-2020, 11:45 AM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Rose would make the perfect bench player on an all time team. You have a 200 hit a season player that can play 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, and RF at anytime. Late in games, he could shift positions if injury or to save a certain PH. He wasn’t a good guy but the dude always gave it his all to win.

Plus was also a switch hitter, so he could pinch hit against righties or lefties.


How about this?  Who was the greatest player/manager ever.  Maybe we could put Rose at the top of that list.