(06-11-2020, 02:29 PM)John Shaft Wrote: Not exactly. How many of the LBs currently on the roster are actually "proven" ? Until then they're a LB roster of potential only and not above more competition.

1 has already proven to be better than Lee. 1 has shown that he will be good.. the other is a rookie that needs playing time.. 

Seriously man, Lee is not an upgrade over what we have. We are better off rolling with what we have and using that money elsewhere. Like OL help maybe? 

(06-11-2020, 03:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Lee has been as good or better than Bynes. Funny how people are impressed with Josh and hating on Derron.

Hunh? 
Which one has had a more consistent career playing at a higher level and how did both fare last year? 

And don't give us any bs about skinning a cat or some other asinine comment. You made the claim so back it with more than words.

(06-11-2020, 04:07 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Which one has had a more consistent career playing at a higher level and how did both fare last year? 

And don't give us any bs about skinning a cat or some other asinine comment. You made the claim so back it with more than words.

Bynes has been a back up his entire career.  He has never started more than 11 games in a season, and has only started more than half of the games twice in his 9 year career.  He has been cut by two different teams in the last four years.  Last year he could not even make an NFL roster coming out of camp and only played for the Ravens due to injuries to their starters.

Darron Lee has never been cut by an NFL team.  His best season (94 tkls, 3 sacks, 9 TFL) is better than any Bynes has ever had

Last year both played limited snaps, but Lee was much more efficient.  Lee recorded a tackle every 5.2 snaps played (31 in 160) while Bynes only recorded a tackle every 8.5 snaps played (46 in 393).

Bynes has played in almost twice as many games as Lee (101 to 56), but only has .5 more sacks (4.5 to 4.0), 1 more interception (4 to 3), 1 more forced fumble (3 to 2), 1 more QB hit (12 to 11), and 9 more TFL (26 to 17).  

Lee has averaged 4.9 tackle per game for his career while Bynes has only averaged 3.7.

Why is coming off Covid a thing?

We could have signed Amanda Bynes for all.care
Just as long as it meant Nick Vigil was no longer
On this team

(06-11-2020, 06:58 PM)impactplaya Wrote: We could have signed Amanda Bynes for all.care
Just as long as it meant Nick Vigil was no longer
On this team

And this is a perfect example of why I put zero weight in fans opinions.  Too many fans are obsessed with hating certain players.  

No fan should be happy with signing a scrub just because he replaces a player they hated. Just look at how many fans loved McCarron just because he was not Dalton.  It had nothing to do with how good he was as a QB.  They just loved him because he was not Andy.

Way too many people here love Bynes just because he is not Vigil or Brown.

(06-11-2020, 06:58 PM)impactplaya Wrote: We could have signed Amanda Bynes for all.care
Just as long as it meant Nick Vigil was no longer
On this team

Yep. Every team in the league watched him play last year, too. And yet he only signed for 700k more than Bynes. I guess the rest of the league missed Fred’s Vigil thread...

(06-11-2020, 07:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. Every team in the league watched him play last year, too. And yet he only signed for 700k more than Bynes. I guess the rest of the league missed Fred’s Vigil thread...

Vigil signed for "only" 40% more than Bynes got.


Vigil is better than some people here think, but I had no problem with him being replaced.

I just had a problem with replacing him with another scrub.

I care more about improving our team than hating one specific player.

Bynes quietly had one of the strongest seasons among linebackers. His PFF grade of 79.4 ranked sixth among linebackers this season. This is not an isolated occurrence, either; he had a PFF rating of 75.3 with the Cardinals in 2018. That included a run defense grade of 80.2.

While Bynes is a good run defender, he really stood out in pass coverage. Opponets had a passer rating of only 47.4, when targeting him. Let's compare that to his fellow inside linebackers.

Opponent passer rating when targeted

Josh Bynes: 47.4
L.J. Fort: 84.1
Patrick Onwuasor: 118.6
Chris Board: 118.7

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2020/3/7/21168655/the-ravens-should-re-sign-josh-bynes

(06-11-2020, 06:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And the Bynes hate goes on...

At least Bynes was missed by Ravens fans. Not even OSU fans want much to do with DArron Lee.

It's not hate if it's supported by facts.

Fwiw, I don't even want Derron Lee.  (There's a reason he was traded for next to nothing, and he'll be on his 3rd team in just 5 year.  And there's a reason a reason he's still sitting here this late into free agency.)

But what Fred said can't be labeled as just hate.  Bynes has been a career backup.  I think he covered most of the stats, and Im too lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure he only won a starting job out of camp a single time in his entire career. I believe it was with the Cardinals.  He was immediately released after the season.

I'm not saying this to "hate" on Bynes. I'm just speaking the truth.  And I absolutely hate agreeing with Fred. But he's not wrong.  Lee has seen more times as a starter, and has played at a higher level at times.  And maybe Bynes finally shines here now that it appears he has a real opportunity on a LB starved roster.  But some of you guys need to pump the brakes on this dude a bit, and maybe quit taking honest takes so personally as to label them as hating on the guy.

Let's all hope for the best for this dude.  It's hard to believe it could be any worse than what we had last year.  So at least there is that...

He played very well in college, but seemed to get completely lost in the pros. It comes down to whether or not he actually has talent enough and if his head is in the game or not. I have no idea why he's been such a flop in the NFL.

I also have no idea if our D coaches are up to a reclamation project. It's not like they are the second coming of Mike Zimmer.

(06-11-2020, 07:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bynes quietly had one of the strongest seasons among linebackers. His PFF grade of 79.4 ranked sixth among linebackers this season. This is not an isolated occurrence, either; he had a PFF rating of 75.3 with the Cardinals in 2018. That included a run defense grade of 80.2.

While Bynes is a good run defender, he really stood out in pass coverage. Opponets had a passer rating of only 47.4, when targeting him. Let's compare that to his fellow inside linebackers.

Opponent passer rating when targeted

Josh Bynes: 47.4
L.J. Fort: 84.1
Patrick Onwuasor: 118.6
Chris Board: 118.7

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2020/3/7/21168655/the-ravens-should-re-sign-josh-bynes

I'm not sure how you can stand out as one of the season's "strongest linebackers" when you only started 7 games.

His contract amount and it's length indicates that he's FAR from a proven commodity.

(06-11-2020, 08:05 PM)BengalChris Wrote: He played very well in college, but seemed to get completely lost in the pros. It comes down to whether or not he actually has talent enough and if his head is in the game or not. I have no idea why he's been such a flop in the NFL.

I also have no idea if our D coaches are up to a reclamation project. It's not like they are the second coming of Mike Zimmer.

I'm not sure if it's a case of "he got lost in the pro's", as much as he was only asked to work to the strengths of his skill set one season, 2018.  He was a top rated coverage LB in 2018, those other years, perhaps they were asking him to be a stack LB?  

That's just what sticks out to me, from his stats.  I don't watch the Jets, so I really can't give any "eyeball anecdotal evidence" testimony on his in the box skills.

(06-11-2020, 03:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Lee has been as good or better than Bynes. Funny how people are impressed with Josh and hating on Derron.

PFF ratings in 2019:

Bynes: 76.6
Lee: 36.3

Bynes: 2018 75.3. 2017 69.9.
Lee: 3 of last 4 years under 50.

Seems to me Bynes has been consistently pretty good and Lee consistently pretty crappy. 

(06-11-2020, 07:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And this is a perfect example of why I put zero weight in fans opinions.  Too many fans are obsessed with hating certain players.  

No fan should be happy with signing a scrub just because he replaces a player they hated. Just look at how many fans loved McCarron just because he was not Dalton.  It had nothing to do with how good he was as a QB.  They just loved him because he was not Andy.

Way too many people here love Bynes just because he is not Vigil or Brown

As a fan are we not allowed to hate the actual performance of a player in his given sport? It's part of being a fan. 
And as fans we are entitled to have our opinions 
Love or hate and in between 
Vigil had to go. It's called addition by subtraction. 
It was maddening that it took the front so long to realize 
The Bengals LB group needed a complete tear down overhaul 

(06-11-2020, 06:49 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Why is coming off Covid a thing?

Reduced lung, heart and liver capacity in some. If you read about the after effects, it is really not something you want to mess around with.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/covid-19-s-health-effects-can-last-long-after-virus-is-gone

(06-11-2020, 07:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bynes quietly had one of the strongest seasons among linebackers. His PFF grade of 79.4 ranked sixth among linebackers this season. This is not an isolated occurrence, either; he had a PFF rating of 75.3 with the Cardinals in 2018. That included a run defense grade of 80.2.

While Bynes is a good run defender, he really stood out in pass coverage. Opponets had a passer rating of only 47.4, when targeting him. Let's compare that to his fellow inside linebackers.

Opponent passer rating when targeted

Josh Bynes: 47.4
L.J. Fort: 84.1
Patrick Onwuasor: 118.6
Chris Board: 118.7

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2020/3/7/21168655/the-ravens-should-re-sign-josh-bynes

He could thrive here for all we know. He is smart, experienced and is in the right place at the right time.

Think Dhani Jones but better in coverage.

(06-11-2020, 08:02 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: It's not hate if it's supported by facts.

Fwiw, I don't even want Derron Lee.  (There's a reason he was traded for next to nothing, and he'll be on his 3rd team in just 5 year.  And there's a reason a reason he's still sitting here this late into free agency.)

But what Fred said can't be labeled as just hate.  Bynes has been a career backup.  I think he covered most of the stats, and Im too lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure he only won a starting job out of camp a single time in his entire career.  I believe it was with the Cardinals.  He was immediately released after the season.

I'm not saying this to "hate" on Bynes. I'm just speaking the truth.  And I absolutely hate agreeing with Fred. But he's not wrong.  Lee has seen more times as a starter, and has played at a higher level at times.  And maybe Bynes finally shines here now that it appears he has a real opportunity on a LB starved roster.  But some of you guys need to pump the brakes on this dude a bit, and maybe quit taking honest takes so personally as to label them as hating on the guy.

Let's all hope for the best for this dude.  It's hard to believe it could be any worse than what we had last year.  So at least there is that...

Fred has been saying Bynes is worse than Vigil since we got him, I call that hate.

It is irrational. Just cause Bynes got cut by the Cards doesn't make him a bad player, we don't know what that all entailed.

As you said, he might do well on this LB starved roster, doesn't make him a bad player cause he played on a loaded LB roster
and was a backup that played pretty dang good. The Ravens fans hated losing him and that tells me something.

Same with Mackenzie Alexander who the Viking fans hated losing.

Pump the breaks? All I am saying is that Bynes could be decent for us, I am not saying he is great or anything, just solid and 
one heck of a lot better than Vigil in tackling and in coverage.

And I thought Vigil was better than a lot on here.

(06-11-2020, 08:38 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: PFF ratings in 2019:

Bynes: 76.6
Lee: 36.3

Bynes: 2018 75.3. 2017 69.9.
Lee: 3 of last 4 years under 50.

Seems to me Bynes has been consistently pretty good and Lee consistently pretty crappy. 

Yep, but what are Evans rankings who we should be comparing Lee to?

(06-11-2020, 07:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bynes quietly had one of the strongest seasons among linebackers. His PFF grade of 79.4 ranked sixth among linebackers this season. This is not an isolated occurrence, either; he had a PFF rating of 75.3 with the Cardinals in 2018. That included a run defense grade of 80.2.

While Bynes is a good run defender, he really stood out in pass coverage. Opponets had a passer rating of only 47.4, when targeting him. Let's compare that to his fellow inside linebackers.

Opponent passer rating when targeted

Josh Bynes: 47.4
L.J. Fort: 84.1
Patrick Onwuasor: 118.6
Chris Board: 118.7

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2020/3/7/21168655/the-ravens-should-re-sign-josh-bynes

Just more proof of what total BS PFF rankings are.  Cards had Bynes under contract for peanuts (less than $3 million a year) in 2018 after he posted that great 75.3 rating from PFF.  So what did they do with that great bargain on their roster?  They cut him.

And his pass coverage stats from last year are deceiving because he was only targeted 16 times.  His passer rating allowed is so low because he came up with 2 picks, but that seems to be a bit of an anomaly because he only has a total of 2 interceptions in his other 8 seasons.

(06-12-2020, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just more proof of what total BS PFF rankings are.  Cards had Bynes under contract for peanuts (less than $3 million a year) in 2018 after he posted that great 75.3 rating from PFF.  So what did they do with that great bargain on their roster?  They cut him.

And his pass coverage stats from last year are deceiving because he was only targeted 16 times.  His passer rating allowed is so low because he came up with 2 picks, but that seems to be a bit of an anomaly because he only has a total of 2 interceptions in his other 8 seasons.

So what was behind the Cards cutting him Fred? Was he injured? Who were the Linebackers in front of him?

I agree that is a small amount of getting targeted but it still doesn't take away the fact that he did well in that small amount of targets. We will see if he can be a leader for our young guys like Dhani Jones was, if he can it will be a nice pickup.

(06-12-2020, 01:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: So what was behind the Cards cutting him Fred? Was he injured? Who were the Linebackers in front of him?

You can't cut a player for getting injured.

And it does not matter what other LBs were on the team if you have one of the best under contract for less than $3 million.  You just don't cut a player like that.  Just like you can't sign one of the top LBs in the league for less than $2 million a year like we just did with Bynes.

Cracks me up when people try to claim that PFF knows more about grading players than every team in the NFL.

(06-12-2020, 01:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't cut a player for getting injured.

And it does not matter what other LBs were on the team if you have one of the best under contract for less than $3 million.  You just don't cut a player like that.  Just like you can't sign one of the top LBs in the league for less than $2 million a year like we just did with Bynes.

Cracks me up when people try to claim that PFF knows more about grading players than every team in the NFL.

Cracks me up when you say that other people are saying that Bynes is a top Linebacker in the league.

Most are just saying he is an upgrade over Vigil. That is all, or at least we all hope he is.