All of the major defensive additions are upgrades in terms of run defense/tackling: Reader, Bynes, Bell, Alexander, & Waynes.

The rookie LBs also seem to have good instincts vs the run AND are good in coverage. Pratt should also be better in year 2.

Phillips healthy. Lawson healthy. Wilson healthy. Plus Tupou & Williams off the bench gives us some decent depth. Is a breakout for Glasgow too much to hope for?

(06-18-2020, 07:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How could you forget about Jermaine Pratt?  His development was noteworthy, in the midst of an otherwise terrible defensive season.

Pry left out Germaine cause he isn't brand new like those guys...

Expecting major growth from Pratt in his sophomore year, loved the pick in the first place.

(06-18-2020, 01:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post SHRacer. That is one hell of an overhaul. Want to see sound tackling become infectious around here. The players we 
moved on from really lost the fundamentals of tackling, all the guys we brought in LOVE to tackle and wear it as a badge of honor
in their play. Good tackling Defenses can change games and save wins, bad tackling Defenses lose games.


Very true, all the guys we brought in seem to fit our Division. I don't think we will be the pushover anymore like we were the last 
few years. Lou brought in his guys on Defense and they are proven, Taylor brought in his guys on Offense. But I truly believe since
Lou got the proven vets the Defense will come around faster and be legit.

Interesting point.  They have every reason to be vastly improved as well, but if you think about it the only young talent on the offense (as in rookie) would be Higgins and Burrow.  Sample could fall in to that category, and even Jonah Williams, though.  So, that is four guys with two that will be starters and the other two should see significant playing time.

The only rookies that will see a lot of the field on the other side (most likely) are Wilson, ADG, and Bailey.  Possibly Khalid Kareem as a rotational player as well.  But when you say starters, I would say that only Wilson is a likely every down starter at least initially.

When I lay it out like that, and you have so much experience on the defensive line, Bynes at LB with Pratt in year two, and an all-veteran secondary, I think you may be right.  I just look at the offense with Mixon, AJ, Ross, Boyd, and a line that showed dramatic improvement once they matched the scheme to their talent and had some stability at LT.  

Burrow is the complete wildcard.  I know he will throw an untimely pick 6.  I know he will make rookie mistakes.  However, when I look at the guy's vision, instincts, mobility and work ethic, it is hard for me to not see the guy being AT LEAST as successful as Mayfield when he finally started his rookie season.  

(06-18-2020, 07:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How could you forget about Jermaine Pratt?  His development was noteworthy, in the midst of an otherwise terrible defensive season.

Haven't forgotten about Pratt.  He showed he belongs and will, hopefully, take another step with more talent around him.  Heck, he looked better just removing the old and slow Preston Brown.  

I was just highlighting the overhaul made this offseason.  

(06-19-2020, 06:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Haven't forgotten about Pratt.  He showed he belongs and will, hopefully, take another step with more talent around him.  Heck, he looked better just removing the old and slow Preston Brown.  

I was just highlighting the overhaul made this offseason.  

I'm for sure stoked about watching the new defense, they made significant efforts to improve at all 3 levels.  It'll be interesting to see how our existing defensive standouts react to having an overall upgrade in talent around them.  On the DL, the addition of Reader to a line with Dunlap, Atkins and Hubbard should have that group among the league's best.  Pratt had a fine rookie season, all things considered.  Putting a mixture of veteran leadership in Bynes, combined with the youthful athleticism of Wilson and Davis, should make for a group that gains momentum all year long.  A clear upgrade in tackling ability across the secondary will hopefully put an end to those gut wrenching YAC plays that they gave up so many of on 3rd downs, as well as allow Bates to take more chances on going for INTs.

(06-18-2020, 09:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pry left out Germaine cause he isn't brand new like those guys...

Expecting major growth from Pratt in his sophomore year, loved the pick in the first place.

Pratt's development is crucial to this defense.  

I realize their is always an attraction to the unknown, e.g. the back up QB is often a fan favorite until he has to play, but it is interesting how many people are more excited about a rookie LB drafted #65 than a second year LB drafted #72.


I feel good about Pratt, and we absolutely have to start getting solid starters with picks that high if we want to contend on a regular basis. 

(06-19-2020, 06:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Interesting point.  They have every reason to be vastly improved as well, but if you think about it the only young talent on the offense (as in rookie) would be Higgins and Burrow.  Sample could fall in to that category, and even Jonah Williams, though.  So, that is four guys with two that will be starters and the other two should see significant playing time.

The only rookies that will see a lot of the field on the other side (most likely) are Wilson, ADG, and Bailey.  Possibly Khalid Kareem as a rotational player as well.  But when you say starters, I would say that only Wilson is a likely every down starter at least initially.

When I lay it out like that, and you have so much experience on the defensive line, Bynes at LB with Pratt in year two, and an all-veteran secondary, I think you may be right.  I just look at the offense with Mixon, AJ, Ross, Boyd, and a line that showed dramatic improvement once they matched the scheme to their talent and had some stability at LT.  

Burrow is the complete wildcard.  I know he will throw an untimely pick 6.  I know he will make rookie mistakes.  However, when I look at the guy's vision, instincts, mobility and work ethic, it is hard for me to not see the guy being AT LEAST as successful as Mayfield when he finally started his rookie season.  

MJ is also really young on Offense but he did get significant snaps as a rookie.

Agree with everything you said, just think this FA will prove why bringing in proven vets can work as long as they are 
still in their prime. Reader, Bell, Waynes, Alexander, Bynes, that is a lot of valuable experience on the Defensive side of
the ball to go along with our proven vets in Geno, Dunlap, Hubbard, Shawn, Bates etc.

(06-19-2020, 12:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Pratt's development is crucial to this defense.  

I realize their is always an attraction to the unknown, e.g. the back up QB is often a fan favorite until he has to play, but it is interesting how many people are more excited about a rookie LB drafted #65 than a second year LB drafted #72.


I feel good about Pratt, and we absolutely have to start getting solid starters with picks that high if we want to contend on a regular basis. 

Completely agree Fred. Really excited about Pratt this year, think he could flourish. He is a good all around Linebacker that can
do it all and with his rookie year in the bag he could be the breakout player for us on Defense. Honestly he might be my vote for
breakout player this season on D.

We have basically 5 ways we can improve: free agents, rookies, player improvements, better health, coaching staff improvements.

1) Free Agents.

Reader (NT/DT), Bynes (MIKE), Bell (SS), Waynes (CB), Alexander (slot corner), and Su'a-Filo (OG) are the six big ones. They should all start, or be a part of our most common personnel paxkage. Sims (CB), Thomas (WR), and Calitro (LB) could help some, too, if they make the 53.

2) Rookies.

Burrow (QB), Higgins (WR), Wilson (LB), ADJ (LB), Kareem (DE/DT), Adeniji (OG/OT), and Bailey (LB).

3 backers who look like they can play, at least situationally, right from the get-go. Kareem gives us some rotational snaps on the d-line. Adeniji seems more of a developmeny guy in year 1, but an intriguing one.

But Burrow & Higgins are potential stars. And I am not sure if Williams counts as a rookie, but he has not played a down yet, so he might as well be. 3 potential studs on offense.
-------

Total new players:
A) Offense
--1) Starters: Burrow, J. Williams, XSF.
--2) Possible starter/lots of snaps: Higgins
--3) Rotation: none
--4) Depth: Adeniji, Thomas

B) Defense
--1) Starters: Reader, Bynes, Bell, Waynes
--2) Maybe starter/lots of snaps: Alexander (50%+), L. Wilson
--3) Rotation: ADG, Kareem, Bailey
--4) Depth: Sims, Calitro
------------

3) Improvements/Development.

There could be a bunch here. They won't all make leaps, but some will.

Offense: Jordan, Johnson, Ross, Hopkins (2nd year C), Sample, Price.
Defense: Pratt, Hubbard, WJ3, Bates, Wren, Atkins (less snaps).

4) Better health

Offense: J. Williams, AJ, Ross, Price, Sample, Anderson.
Defense: Lawson, Glasgow, Phillips, B. Wilson.

Of course, guys will get hurt this year as well, but for now...

5) Coaching staff improvements

They got their feet wet last year. There were some mistakes (Sample pick, etc). They made some adjustments (blocking scheme, Brown release). They got their type of guys (leaders, winners, tacklers). They should be better as well.
-------

Lots of things looking up. How much up is going to depend a lot on Burrow. How good is he? And how fast is he that good?

Hard hitting safety like Ronnie Lott is one of my favorite players of all time. So I am glad to have this guy not comparing him to Lott just saying I like a guy in middle of the field that can make you think twice about catching the ball give them alligator arms or T-rex arms. I know the refs do not let guys hit like back when Lott played but I would give up a 15 yard penalty at the start of the game to set the tone for the rest of the game in a heartbeat. I also know some of you guys think Bell is strictly a in the box safety but I do not think of him that way.

(06-19-2020, 05:31 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We have basically 5 ways we can improve: free agents, rookies, player improvements, better health, coaching staff improvements.

1) Free Agents.

Reader (NT/DT), Bynes (MIKE), Bell (SS), Waynes (CB), Alexander (slot corner), and Su'a-Filo (OG) are the six big ones. They should all start, or be a part of our most common personnel paxkage. Sims (CB), Thomas (WR), and Calitro (LB) could help some, too, if they make the 53.

2) Rookies.

Burrow (QB), Higgins (WR), Wilson (LB), ADJ (LB), Kareem (DE/DT), Adeniji (OG/OT), and Bailey (LB).

3 backers who look like they can play, at least situationally, right from the get-go. Kareem gives us some rotational snaps on the d-line. Adeniji seems more of a developmeny guy in year 1, but an intriguing one.

But Burrow & Higgins are potential stars. And I am not sure if Williams counts as a rookie, but he has not played a down yet, so he might as well be. 3 potential studs on offense.
-------

Total new players:
A) Offense
--1) Starters: Burrow, J. Williams, XSF.
--2) Possible starter/lots of snaps: Higgins
--3) Rotation: none
--4) Depth: Adeniji, Thomas

B) Defense
--1) Starters: Reader, Bynes, Bell, Waynes
--2) Maybe starter/lots of snaps: Alexander (50%+), L. Wilson
--3) Rotation: ADG, Kareem, Bailey
--4) Depth: Sims, Calitro
------------

3) Improvements/Development.

There could be a bunch here. They won't all make leaps, but some will.

Offense: Jordan, Johnson, Ross, Hopkins (2nd year C), Sample, Price.
Defense: Pratt, Hubbard, WJ3, Bates, Wren, Atkins (less snaps).

4) Better health

Offense: J. Williams, AJ, Ross, Price, Sample, Anderson.
Defense: Lawson, Glasgow, Phillips, B. Wilson.

Of course, guys will get hurt this year as well, but for now...

5) Coaching staff improvements

They got their feet wet last year. There were some mistakes (Sample pick, etc). They made some adjustments (blocking scheme, Brown release). They got their type of guys (leaders, winners, tacklers). They should be better as well.
-------

Lots of things looking up. How much up is going to depend a lot on Burrow. How good is he? And how fast is he that good?

After reading this article I'm actually pretty excited about Kareem.   If he pans out he will add to a dramatic overhaul of the defense.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/6/12/21244834/chalk-talk-what-khalid-kareem-brings-to-the-bengals-defense 

(06-19-2020, 05:31 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We have basically 5 ways we can improve: free agents, rookies, player improvements, better health, coaching staff improvements.

1) Free Agents.

Reader (NT/DT), Bynes (MIKE), Bell (SS), Waynes (CB), Alexander (slot corner), and Su'a-Filo (OG) are the six big ones. They should all start, or be a part of our most common personnel paxkage. Sims (CB), Thomas (WR), and Calitro (LB) could help some, too, if they make the 53.

2) Rookies.

Burrow (QB), Higgins (WR), Wilson (LB), ADJ (LB), Kareem (DE/DT), Adeniji (OG/OT), and Bailey (LB).

3 backers who look like they can play, at least situationally, right from the get-go. Kareem gives us some rotational snaps on the d-line. Adeniji seems more of a developmeny guy in year 1, but an intriguing one.

But Burrow & Higgins are potential stars. And I am not sure if Williams counts as a rookie, but he has not played a down yet, so he might as well be. 3 potential studs on offense.
-------

Total new players:
A) Offense
--1) Starters: Burrow, J. Williams, XSF.
--2) Possible starter/lots of snaps: Higgins
--3) Rotation: none
--4) Depth: Adeniji, Thomas

B) Defense
--1) Starters: Reader, Bynes, Bell, Waynes
--2) Maybe starter/lots of snaps: Alexander (50%+), L. Wilson
--3) Rotation: ADG, Kareem, Bailey
--4) Depth: Sims, Calitro
------------

3) Improvements/Development.

There could be a bunch here. They won't all make leaps, but some will.

Offense: Jordan, Johnson, Ross, Hopkins (2nd year C), Sample, Price.
Defense: Pratt, Hubbard, WJ3, Bates, Wren, Atkins (less snaps).

4) Better health

Offense: J. Williams, AJ, Ross, Price, Sample, Anderson.
Defense: Lawson, Glasgow, Phillips, B. Wilson.

Of course, guys will get hurt this year as well, but for now...

5) Coaching staff improvements

They got their feet wet last year. There were some mistakes (Sample pick, etc). They made some adjustments (blocking scheme, Brown release). They got their type of guys (leaders, winners, tacklers). They should be better as well.
-------

Lots of things looking up. How much up is going to depend a lot on Burrow. How good is he? And how fast is he that good?

Nice post man, well done. BTW, I count Alexander as a starter, Slot CB's play a lot nowadays.

(06-19-2020, 08:09 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm for sure stoked about watching the new defense, they made significant efforts to improve at all 3 levels.  It'll be interesting to see how our existing defensive standouts react to having an overall upgrade in talent around them.  On the DL, the addition of Reader to a line with Dunlap, Atkins and Hubbard should have that group among the league's best.  Pratt had a fine rookie season, all things considered.  Putting a mixture of veteran leadership in Bynes, combined with the youthful athleticism of Wilson and Davis, should make for a group that gains momentum all year long.  A clear upgrade in tackling ability across the secondary will hopefully put an end to those gut wrenching YAC plays that they gave up so many of on 3rd downs, as well as allow Bates to take more chances on going for INTs.

YES!  Turnovers is something that should, and absolutely must, show improvement over the last couple years.  It is all synergy: QB has to hold the ball longer because there isn't an easy checkdown (LB and S covering) so the d-line gets more hits, forces more fumbles, hurries more errant passes.  Yes, the LB corps is very young and unproven but I will sacrifice their inexperience in the NFL for their speed and instincts that earned them draft spots.  

With all this COVID-19 impact on practicing and potentially limiting preparation (preseason), I am glad they will largely have a veteran defense on the line and secondary.  

(06-19-2020, 03:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely agree Fred. Really excited about Pratt this year, think he could flourish. He is a good all around Linebacker that can
do it all and with his rookie year in the bag he could be the breakout player for us on Defense. Honestly he might be my vote for
breakout player this season on D.

Sounds like a subject for another long offseason thread?  Since Sunset mentioned how all of this defensive improvement could yield more turnover opportunities, I will make an early vote for Bates.  He flashed as a rookie, stumbled last year, and then next year....could he pull a Boyd?  

(06-17-2020, 02:46 PM)J24 Wrote: He is a great run defender bad pass defender. Not really a bad signing but not a great signing either. He seems like a good scheme fit though as an in box safety so I would be surprised if the signing didn't work out.

Lets not forget one the bigger reasons for the signing...LEADERSHIP AND and a winning attitude and mindset...something our "stars " like Geno and Dunlap dont impress me with honestly. Bell is going to light fires under everyone butts and get this D back to where we were in the Zimmer Era.

(06-19-2020, 06:46 PM)3wt Wrote: After reading this article I'm actually pretty excited about Kareem.   If he pans out he will add to a dramatic overhaul of the defense.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/6/12/21244834/chalk-talk-what-khalid-kareem-brings-to-the-bengals-defense 

Thanks for sharing!  I hadn't seen this.  Khalid is probably the one draft pick I knew absolutely nothing about.  I hadn't scouted him at all, and I was looking more at safety than DE/DT that late in the draft.  I am definitely liking him more and more every time I hear about him.  He actually reminds me a bit of Hubbard in the sense that he doesn't wow you with measurables but he simply makes plays.  Judging by that video, he seems to make a lot of his biggest plays against good competition.  Say what you will about ND in title games of late, but they usually have a solid schedule.  

I think his injury/surgery leading to an inability to participate in the combine really hurt him.  A guy with that size 6'4", 268 lbs, and ridiculous arms 34 5/8" and huge hands 10 7/8" combined with what looks like a VERY quick first step would have been shooting up draft boards.  I know it is hard to quantify that first step on tape, but I found it interesting that most reports on him mentioned a great first step, with very few false steps, but has "limited explosiveness".  

I don't mean to make is sound like he is Von Miller, but he can surely help this team by improving the rotational talent on the line.  

I also really liked that he played 3 more games after he tore his labrum because he "wanted to finish the season with his guys" and thought he just had a sprained AC joint.  

(06-20-2020, 11:44 AM)kalibengal Wrote: Lets not forget one the bigger reasons for the signing...LEADERSHIP AND and a winning attitude and mindset...something our "stars " like Geno and Dunlap dont impress me with honestly. Bell is going to light fires under everyone butts and get this D back to where we were in the Zimmer Era.

Geno is a leader by example. Dunlap is a leader in his own way, but (IMO) doesn’t have that dawg mentality you need out there. They haven’t had something like that since PAC and Vontaze were out there. I think Bell has that mentality with less of the antics of those other two guys. Reader also seems like a no nonsense vet. Hopefully the personalities of these guys mesh well, chemistry is super important to a defense. I think this is the year Bates starts to take more of a leadership role in the lockerroom as well. He needs to become ‘the guy’ on this defense like Reggie Nelson used to be.

(06-20-2020, 12:01 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Thanks for sharing!  I hadn't seen this.  Khalid is probably the one draft pick I knew absolutely nothing about.  I hadn't scouted him at all, and I was looking more at safety than DE/DT that late in the draft.  I am definitely liking him more and more every time I hear about him.  He actually reminds me a bit of Hubbard in the sense that he doesn't wow you with measurables but he simply makes plays.  Judging by that video, he seems to make a lot of his biggest plays against good competition.  Say what you will about ND in title games of late, but they usually have a solid schedule.  

I think his injury/surgery leading to an inability to participate in the combine really hurt him.  A guy with that size 6'4", 268 lbs, and ridiculous arms 34 5/8" and huge hands 10 7/8" combined with what looks like a VERY quick first step would have been shooting up draft boards.  I know it is hard to quantify that first step on tape, but I found it interesting that most reports on him mentioned a great first step, with very few false steps, but has "limited explosiveness".  

I don't mean to make is sound like he is Von Miller, but he can surely help this team by improving the rotational talent on the line.  

I also really liked that he played 3 more games after he tore his labrum because he "wanted to finish the season with his guys" and thought he just had a sprained AC joint.  

Kareem will be an interesting one to watch develop, as he's got the size and body composition to fill that Strong Side DE role, currently held by Dunlap.  Having a good first step is great, but most every NFL DE was considered to have a good first step in the college level.  NFL OTs are used to handling everyone's great first step, every down they play.  He's got the frame to put on some mass, and develop his power game, he'll have to work on his technique, and learn to keep throwing moves and hands throughout each rep.  Staying alert could net him a lot of PDs at the line.

(06-20-2020, 11:30 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sounds like a subject for another long offseason thread?  Since Sunset mentioned how all of this defensive improvement could yield more turnover opportunities, I will make an early vote for Bates.  He flashed as a rookie, stumbled last year, and then next year....could he pull a Boyd?  

Good one, I could definitely see Bates being our breakout Defensive player as well. Will start the thread now...

I'm actually hoping Vonn Bell picks up in a certain catagory where Reggie Nelson left off.

That being the pick leader and big Piggy killer whenever we play Stool-town...

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