(06-20-2020, 04:52 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I don't know if Hubbard counts as a 'break out' player because he's already really good.

If breakout means from an unknown to a known commodity, I'd have to agree on Pratt. At least he tweets a lot about how hungry he is, etc.

Bates is also already a known commodity, but I think his INT numbers will go up IF we manage to stop the run better, because teams won't just be able to run it all day.

But basically my pick is Pratt.

I hear ya, but Hubbard is already known to be really good here in Cincy.   He could have the kind of season where he makes the Pro Bowl, but I think Pratt is an excellent choice.  

(06-20-2020, 06:02 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im.going to.go with Darius Phillips yes sir
This secondary has been lacking a real ball hawk
At CB since the days of James and ONeal.
All those high picks at CB this team has invested
Over the last 10 years and not one has even been
In the top 10 in INTS.

Love Phillips.  Would love to see him push Waynes and if Waynes is not at the top of his game, Phillips may take his spot.  

(06-20-2020, 09:12 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: I'd be surprised if Pratt is still starting by end of season.

Who is going to be starting instead of him?

The guys we drafted this year are no more highly rated than Pratt, and he has a year of NFL experience on them.

And we did not sign any free agent LBs that would bump Pratt from the starting line up.

I think Carl Lawson fits this perfect.. He had a surprising rookie season, then with injuries and up and down performances he has not really established himself.. I think now going into his 4th year he can really have a breakout season

If Lawson can stay healthy he is most likely to be the "breakout" player on defense.

But I think Pratt will also step up and become a solid starter.

(06-21-2020, 09:00 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Pratt is an excellent choice.  With better LB play around him and a better run stuffing presence in the middle (Reader), Pratt will be able to run free and make plays.  Very excited to see his year 2 in the league. 

While I agree Pratt showed some reason to be excited by end of yr, I dont recall him being" that guy" we are looking for either. Seems lot of Hype is being injected with him at this point but Im optmistic he will keep improving and will flourish with better players around him now. 
What were his season ending stats? anything jump out  ? 

(06-21-2020, 12:14 PM)kalibengal Wrote: While I agree Pratt showed some reason to be excited by end of yr, I dont recall him being" that guy" we are looking for either. Seems lot of Hype is being injected with him at this point but Im optmistic he will keep improving and will flourish with better players around him now. 
What were his season ending stats? anything jump out  ? 

I think what jumped out was a steady improvement in PFF ratings and how much better he looked when they went with him and Vigil instead of Preston Brown.  

(06-20-2020, 06:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The only other player that I could make a small argument for, might be Jesse Bates.

I'm hoping Jessie Bates steps up and becomes a real leader in the secondary. The two biggest issues with the secondary last year was tackling (ugh) and communication.

(06-21-2020, 12:14 PM)kalibengal Wrote: While I agree Pratt showed some reason to be excited by end of yr, I dont recall him being" that guy" we are looking for either. Seems lot of Hype is being injected with him at this point 

This thread is all about "hype".  That is why we are not talking about the guys who have already looked good

(06-21-2020, 12:14 PM)kalibengal Wrote:  but Im optmistic he will keep improving and will flourish with better players around him now. 

What were his season ending stats? anything jump out  ? 

What jumped out to me was his consistent development over the season.  He barely played the first half of the season.  Only 101 snaps on defense (app 20%) and never more than 38% in any game.  Then in game #9 against Baltimore he played 50% of the defensive snaps, and Preston Brown was immediately released.  Pratt still did not play more than 68% of the snaps until the final 4 games where he played over 70% in 3 of them.  Here is how his season broke down


Game..snaps...tkl...solo..asst..blitz..TFL
1-4 ........ 25... 4..... 1..... 3..... 1..... 0
5-8 ........ 76...12.... 9..... 3..... 6..... 0
9-12.......148...22...14..... 8..... 7..... 0
13-16.....187...34...23.....11....14..... 4

Project that last quarter of the season over a full 16 games and you get 136 tackles and 16 tackle for loss.  That would be an awesome year from any of our LBs.

I know 4 games is a very small sample size, but those numbers were not just a fluke spike in production.  Instead you can track consistent improvement throughout the entire season.

And I don't want to sound like I am putting down the guys we drafted this year.  I really like both Wilson and Davis-Gaither.  But I think Pratt is just as good as either of them.  And we really need all three of them to develop into good players.

(06-21-2020, 04:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote:

I also think Jackson will play very well this season, but he is "Come Back Player" instead of "Breakout Player"

He already had his break out season in 2017.

Jackson could be better than "just good" he could be one of the top corners in the league.

(06-21-2020, 08:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Per our earlier discussion, with a better pass rush, run defense up the middle, and LB coverage, I could see Jesse Bates as a guy that is poised to use his rangy talents to intercept a few more balls this year.  Having been near the lead in tackles on the team last year is a bad sign for a defense (both safeties, actually).  Bates could be the breakout player we have needed in the back end that we really haven't seen since Reggie Nelson.

My vote is Jesse Bates.  

I could definitely see this, Bates is a ballhawk and when it rains it pours. He just needs to get back to tackling better.

Weird how tackling was Bates biggest weakness in college and as a rookie he tackled well and just lost his fundamentals last 
season like a lot of the Defense did. Happy we brought in solid tacklers and addressed this, now Lou needs to coach this into 
the entire Defense. Tackle that SUMBITCH!!!

(06-21-2020, 09:00 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Pratt is an excellent choice.  With better LB play around him and a better run stuffing presence in the middle (Reader), Pratt will be able to run free and make plays.  Very excited to see his year 2 in the league. 

This is what I am seeing with Pratt. I see him being the young leader soon, there was talk of him being a leader as a rookie.

With Bynes coming in to add valuable experience, I see Pratt making the biggest leap this year of anyone.

Will take time for the rookies just like it did for Pratt last year. But he improved big time as the year went on.

I could be very wrong about this, but Renell Wren is more on my list of surprise training camp cuts than he is breakout player. I cringe at the "just needs to put it all together" label. Raw means inexperienced. Wren isn't inexperienced really, he "just needs to put it all together."

Another thing about Pratt, who was and remains my breakout player candidate. Take those early season PFF scores with a grain of salt. One of the PFF guys, in an interview with Matt Minnich, pointed out a good reason why PFF scores should be understood in context. Early on they'd put him in, he'd make a big mistake, and then they'd yank him for the rest of the game. So there's no way his scores wouldn't be bad. Small sample size by definition involving a big mistake = low score. Once they let him play his scores settled out because he had the opportunity to make good plays too.

(06-21-2020, 05:36 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I could be very wrong about this, but Renell Wren is more on my list of surprise training camp cuts than he is breakout player. I cringe at the "just needs to put it all together" label. Raw means inexperienced. Wren isn't inexperienced really, he "just needs to put it all together."

Another thing about Pratt, who was and remains my breakout player candidate. Take those early season PFF scores with a grain of salt. One of the PFF guys, in an interview with Matt Minnich, pointed out a good reason why PFF scores should be understood in context. Early on they'd put him in, he'd make a big mistake, and then they'd yank him for the rest of the game. So there's no way his scores wouldn't be bad. Small sample size by definition involving a big mistake = low score. Once they let him play his scores settled out because he had the opportunity to make good plays too.

Feel the same about both Wren and Pratt. Well said GCD. Wren has shown nothing in his small sample size.

Mount Wren plays like Jane.

Pratt learned as the season went on and rookie LB's usually have some time adjusting to the NFL.

 Pratt should just get better in his 2nd year.