(07-06-2020, 10:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Other then a couple of fourth down situations I don't really know what so many people complain about the play calling.

Anybody want to give me some specifics of the problems with our play calling last year?

My main complaint was a lack of urgency at times... not too much of the actual plays themselves.

(07-06-2020, 10:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Other then a couple of fourth down situations I don't really know what so many people complain about the play calling.

Anybody want to give me some specifics of the problems with our play calling last year?

Andy for whatever reason was a better passer in a uptempo offense. He could get into a,rhythm and just 
Pick apart defenses. But last year their was no quicks getting In and out of the huddle. 
Not a lot of misdirection or deceptive looks from the offense. Creativity was lacking. 
Rarely dId I see from last year's offense 

Middle screens to the TE.
Jet sweeps 
Jet sweep fakes throw to the other side
Reverse passes.
Just to name a few 

(07-06-2020, 01:04 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Andy for whatever reason was a better passer in a uptempo offense. He could get into a,rhythm and just 
Pick apart defenses. But last year their was no quicks getting In and out of the huddle. 
Not a lot of misdirection or deceptive looks from the offense. Creativity was lacking. 
Rarely dId I see from last year's offense 

Middle screens to the TE.
Jet sweeps 
Jet sweep fakes throw to the other side
Reverse passes.
Just to name a few 

I always attributed that to better line play.  No huddles with quick snaps limit the communication time for the defense, so they have a lessened ability to disguise and run exotc pressures and coverages that can confuse the blocking scheme.  On top of that, they have less time to recover from the pass rush and substitute players.

I could be wrong about that, but that always seemed a realistic reasoning to me.  Especially when looking at the number of times we would walk down the field and once we sniffed the end zone, the defense would just send the house and get there for a sack to stop the hurry up.

(07-06-2020, 10:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Other then a couple of fourth down situations I don't really know what so many people complain about the play calling.

Anybody want to give me some specifics of the problems with our play calling last year?

Not targeting a TE vs Arizona who couldn't cover one to save their life.

(07-06-2020, 02:25 PM)jason Wrote: Not targeting a TE vs Arizona who couldn't cover one to save their life.

Uzomah and Eifert had 4 catches (on 6 targets) for 30 yards.

Some one muxt have been covering them in order to only get 30 yards on 6 targets.

(07-06-2020, 12:41 AM)McC Wrote: They may not have openly said it, but isn't changing the hell out of it basically admitting it?

A wise man learns from his mistakes and there's never anything wrong with imitating what works.

Exactly.

(07-06-2020, 08:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I have heard this sentiment a lot, but isn't the "playbook and play-calling" a bit like the defense last year:  It got better as the year wore on?

The offense had no running game and once Ross was injured and they had him and Green both on the sidelines, the passing game wasn't going to be the same.  The offensive line struggled early (also largely due to injuries) in both run blocking and pass protection.  Basically, nothing was working on that side of the ball.  Then, they made adjustments and the rushing attack became one of the better ones in the league.   This helped the defense not be on the field all the time.

I understand early on the offense really struggled, but wasn't that more of a product of injuries on both the offensive line and the WR position?  Based on the talent they had healthy, I thought once they pulled Finley that the play calling was pretty solid.  

I really didn't see much improvement.

first 8 weeks: 15.5 ppg - 317.3 yards per game
last 8 weeks: 19.4 ppg - 328.9 yards per game

That modest improvement mostly came from the last two weeks, when we did the dead cat bounce against two of the worst teams in the league (Miami and Cleveland). If that's what we consider improvement, that's some pretty low standards.

The run game did finally pick up in the 2nd half of the season (although the defense was still mixed to put it very kindly).

I guess you could say the offense was better late in the season when they put Andy back in, but still, our only good offensive outputs were against Miami and Cleveland (twice). Was that us "figuring things out" or just facing some really bad defenses?

Keep in mind, the Browns were terrible on D over their last 4 games, and Miami had the worst defense in the league last year.

(07-06-2020, 03:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Uzomah and Eifert had 4 catches (on 6 targets) for 30 yards.

Some one muxt have been covering them in order to only get 30 yards on 6 targets.

Neither of them were even targeted til the 3rd quarter. In week 1 rookie TJ Hockenson had 131 yards and a TD on 6 catches. The following week Mark Andrews 112 yards and a TD... Hurst also scored on the Cardinals that week. Greg Olsen had 75 yards and 2 TDs. The following week Will Dissly and Luke Wilson combined for 83 yards and a TD. See a trend here?

Then the Bengals come in and throw to the TE 6 times. Completing 4 passes for 30 yards. The following week TEs were racking up 100 yards and a TD again. They literally gave up a TD to a TE every in 13 outta 16 games.

(07-06-2020, 02:25 PM)jason Wrote: Not targeting a TE vs Arizona who couldn't cover one to save their life.

(07-06-2020, 07:40 PM)jason Wrote: Neither of them were even targeted til the 3rd quarter. In week 1 rookie TJ Hockenson had 131 yards and a TD on 6 catches. The following week Mark Andrews 112 yards and a TD... Hurst also scored on the Cardinals that week. Greg Olsen had 75 yards and 2 TDs. The following week Will Dissly and Luke Wilson combined for 83 yards and a TD. See a trend here?  

Then the Bengals come in and throw to the TE 6 times. Completing 4 passes for 30 yards. The following week TEs were racking up 100 yards and a TD again. They literally gave up a TD to a TE every in 13 outta 16 games.

That bugged the crap out of me as well.  As I recall, most pundits were picking us to win that one because of that very fact.

(07-06-2020, 08:33 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: That bugged the crap out of me as well.  As I recall, most pundits were picking us to win that one because of that very fact.

Yeah... And it wasn't even just top TEs doing that to them. Ricky Seals-Jones had a big game. OJ Howard had one of his only big games of the year against them. It'd be like opposing teams playing the Bengals and deciding to not attack the LBs in the middle of the field. Also if I recall correctly, Joe Mixon chewed Arizona up on the first possession then they went away from him... All that feels like 2 years ago, so I could be making that up.

(07-06-2020, 08:51 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah... And it wasn't even just top TEs doing that to them. Ricky Seals-Jones had a big game. OJ Howard had one of his only big games of the year against them. It'd be like opposing teams playing the Bengals and deciding to not attack the LBs in the middle of the field. Also if I recall correctly, Joe Mixon chewed Arizona up on the first possession then they went away from him... All that feels like 2 years ago, so I could be making that up.

I think you’re right, but perhaps the tank job was in full effect!

(07-06-2020, 08:56 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I think you’re right, but perhaps the tank job was in full effect!

Haha... In hindsight you're right, but that was only week 5.

(07-06-2020, 09:08 PM)jason Wrote: Haha... In hindsight you're right, but that was only week 5.

ZT knew by week 2

(07-06-2020, 03:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Exactly.


I really didn't see much improvement.

first 8 weeks: 15.5 ppg - 317.3 yards per game
last 8 weeks: 19.4 ppg - 328.9 yards per game

That modest improvement mostly came from the last two weeks, when we did the dead cat bounce against two of the worst teams in the league (Miami and Cleveland). If that's what we consider improvement, that's some pretty low standards.

The run game did finally pick up in the 2nd half of the season (although the defense was still mixed to put it very kindly).

I guess you could say the offense was better late in the season when they put Andy back in, but still, our only good offensive outputs were against Miami and Cleveland (twice). Was that us "figuring things out" or just facing some really bad defenses?

Keep in mind, the Browns were terrible on D over their last 4 games, and Miami had the worst defense in the league last year.

If you are going to just go by stats, why not remove the three games where Finley was the starter:  Weeks 9, 10, and 11.  Then compare things like time of possession, 3rd down efficiency, and points per game instead of just yards.  That doesn't take in to account the massive upgrade of the rushing attack.  They also played pretty well against a solid NY Jet defense.  

(07-06-2020, 09:14 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: ZT knew by week 2

or preseason

(07-05-2020, 06:20 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/07/05/bengals-have-studied-a-lot-of-offenses-to-find-whats-comfortable-for-joe-burrow/

According to Callahan, our offensive playbook will be quite different:

Just what I wanted to hear. This is the way for Burrow to make the transition seamless. Scrap that crappy Offense from last
year and go with the up tempo, Shotgun style LSU Offense from last season. It was record breaking stuff man.

(07-07-2020, 03:15 PM)Stewy Wrote: or preseason

Or when he took the job

(07-05-2020, 06:32 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Surprisingly it was not effective without Bo Jackson.

You ever see that video where that guy runs out a whole quarter on 1 play with Bo Jackson in the original Tecmo Bowl? Lol Insane..
https://youtu.be/8PBvOxicz-0