(07-16-2020, 01:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So I just looked into the NY "travel ban". The New York Yankees are exempt. The restrictions only apply to "regular travelers". Guess where the Yankees return from to open the season? Florida, one of the absolute worst states to travel to. Then they immediately come back to NY for a 9 game homestand.

So it's not ok for a single person to travel alone from Ohio to New York, say from a funeral, without quarantining. But it is ok for a team of probably 50+ employees return from Florida, where they'll immediately come into contact with another traveling team from DC and then again with from another from Philly?

This is absolute bs. Either this is serious or it isn't. I cannot take a politician like Cuomo seriously when he makes exemptions like this. No decision can be made in good faith when you arbitrarily apply it.

I'll preface this by saying I don't think MLB, the NBA or the NFL will pull this off... But aren't the Yankees going to be tested out the wazoo? The average Joe isn't, and a 14 quarentine order is pretty much the state of New York telling people from the states on the list to not come to New York.

(07-16-2020, 09:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No they won't.

And nothing proves it more than the current "mask" situation.  

Even in the overwhelming majority of places where masks were optional the conservatives have refused to wear them for purely political reasons.

And even in those instances where everyone wears a mask people still get sick.

(07-16-2020, 10:20 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Please replace the word " the conservatives" with "idiots" and "political reasons" with "all sorts of stupid reasons".

While I think people should be wearing masks to help keep others from getting sick it is not proven that the mask keeps everyone safe.

Quit calling people names cause they don't buy all the BS.

(07-16-2020, 01:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: While I think people should be wearing masks to help keep others from getting sick it is not proven that the mask keeps anyone safe.

Quit calling people names cause they don't buy all the BS.

It is proven. Do they keep everyone 100% safe?  No.  Do they reduce transmission? Yes.  That's a proven fact.

I'm not calling people names simply for not buying into "the bs". I'm also calling them names because they don't even have the common decency to don an incovenience that's akin to wearing a tie on the off chance maybe this is shit is actually serious.

Even if people think it's all bs, how many things do we do in our lives to not offend or inconvenience others?  Ex: Farting in public, swearing in front of children, wearing dress pants to a funeral, eating with utensils in a restaraunt rather than your hands.  Think of wearing a mask like that.

Would I like to wear sweatpants or basketball shorts 24/7?  Yeah.  Is it "my right"?  Yeah.  Do I do it? No.  And why is that?  Because I'm not an asshole.  Same reason I don't talk on the phone in a theatre or clip my toenails on a bus. 

If someone doesn't wear a mask at this point they're an asshole. Period.  

And fwiw, my intention wasn't to name call. Fred tried to insinuate that this is a conservative or political statement.  My point was that it extends far beyond that and across the spectrum.  Idiots and assholes come in many shapes and sizes, and from both sides of politics.

(07-16-2020, 02:15 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: It is proven. Do they keep everyone 100% safe?  No.  Do they reduce transmission? Yes.  That's a proven fact.

I'm not calling people names simply for not buying into "the bs". I'm also calling them names because they don't even have the common decency to don an incovenience that's akin to wearing a tie on the off chance maybe this is shit is actually serious.

Even if people think it's all bs, how many things do we do in our lives to not offend or inconvenience others?  Ex: Farting in public, swearing in front of children, wearing dress pants to a funeral, eating with utensils in a restaraunt rather than your hands.  Think of wearing a mask like that.

Would I like to wear sweatpants or basketball shorts 24/7?  Yeah.  Is it "my right"?  Yeah.  Do I do it? No.  And why is that?  Because I'm not an asshole.  Same reason I don't talk on the phone in a theatre or clip my toenails on a bus. 

If someone doesn't wear a mask at this point they're an asshole. Period.  

And fwiw, my intention wasn't to name call. Fred tried to insinuate that this is a conservative or political statement.  My point was that it extends far beyond that and across the spectrum.  Idiots and assholes come in many shapes and sizes, and from both sides of politics.

I agree with a lot of what you say here Wes but with just putting on and taking off the mask you are touching your face all the 
damn time which is not a good thing regardless of what sickness it is. If I was in the city and around a lot of people I would
wear a mask, but people are getting sick all the time while wearing them too.

I just don't think we know enough about this thing to say one way or the other definitively. 

People just saying wear the mask all the time and this will go away in a couple weeks I think are wrong too. The molecules in 
this virus are extremely small and get through masks so I think this notion is wrong to just always wear masks.

As is locking down and staying in your house all scared. This is not a good idea as when you eventually do get this thing your 
immune system will be down and it will hit you harder. 

(07-16-2020, 02:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree with a lot of what you say here Wes but with just putting on and taking off the mask you are touching your face all the 
damn time which is not a good thing regardless of what sickness it is. If I was in the city and around a lot of people I would
wear a mask, but people are getting sick all the time while wearing them too.

I just don't think we know enough about this thing to say one way or the other definitively. 

People just saying wear the mask all the time and this will go away in a couple weeks I think are wrong too. The molecules in 
this virus are extremely small and get through masks so I think this notion is wrong to just always wear masks.

As is locking down and staying in your house all scared. This is not a good idea as when you eventually do get this thing your 
immune system will be down and it will hit you harder. 

The mask is more to prevent you from expelling or inhaling the larger droplets that come with screaming, coughing, and sneezing. If someone positive with COVID-19 sneezes, and they're not wearing a mask, there are now visible droplets in the air containing the virus. And if another person happens to be nearby, and they're not wearing a mask, they're that much more susceptible to contracting it.

It's like Wes said.  The mask is by no means a 100% preventative measure, nor is it being advertised as such.  But it does help to reduce risk.  And that's all this is about really. Reducing risk. I don't want to sound condescending, but the benefits to wearing a mask to minimize spread of a respiratory illness are pretty self explanatory.  And again, all that's being asked of people is to wear a paper/cloth mask when out in public and around other people.  In concept, it's really not much different than businesses requiring you to have a shirt and shoes on - especially those businesses that have to adhere to health code regulations.  Just like you having to have your body and your feet covered, for the time being you have to have your face covered too.  It's perfectly reasonable given the current situation and it's really not that difficult. But as is often the case, as soon as people are told what to do they ***** and whine and make the whole thing a much bigger deal than it needs to be.

I've been wearing a mask to work, the gym, the grocery store and the gas station for four months now and I've not once griped about it. Meanwhile you have other people on Facebook and Twitter acting like their lives are being ruined.
      


  

(07-16-2020, 12:01 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: TV makes everything political. They say follow the science, but then when the science does not validate their point of view, they change the narrative. I wear a mask in public because I choose to use the old better safe than sorry. But, I have seen conflicting research on masks, including conflicting statements from Fauci on the science of masks.

Can you give me an example?

Quote:I have yet to be convinced masks is the cure all. I think hygiene of washing hands, social distancing have more impact than masks, but again no science to prove it either way as I see reports both ways. Watch the July 15 Laura Ingram show and she has doctors and so called proof masks have little to no effect stopping this virus. The problem is no study has been done of 30,000 + people studying their every move with a mask or without one to verify. 

But, I will wear the mask, but will never judge others who do not wear one.

Face coverings are not a cure all. Face coverings will not prevent you from inhaling a virus.

Again, face coverings help reduce the spread of OUR germs to others. It’s the same concept as covering our mouth a nose when we cough and sneeze.

N95 masks if fitted and worn correctly prevent the wearer from getting Covid 19 from otherwise. These are recommended for healthcare providers. I wear one at work when seeing patients with Covid 19 symptoms so I don’t become infected.

When I’m not at work and I go to the grocery store I wear a procedure mask anyone can buy at a drug store. A procedure mask won’t prevent me from getting Covid 19 while at the store. But, if I do get infected wearing a procedure masking can reduce the chances of me infecting others.

Even in the people who develop symptoms, they seem to be most contagious in the days before the symptoms are present.

Does that make sense?

Also, the CDC recently published information in JAMA that face covering are slowing the spread. If we can slow the spread we can protect those at highest risk and keep the economy open and maybe have organ

(07-16-2020, 02:30 PM)Big Boss Wrote: The mask is more to prevent you from expelling or inhaling the larger droplets that come with screaming, coughing, and sneezing.  If someone positive with COVID-19 sneezes, and they're not wearing a mask, there are now visible droplets in the air containing the virus.  And if another person happens to be nearby, and they're not wearing a mask, they're that much more susceptible to contracting it.  

It's like Wes said.  The mask is by no means a 100% preventative measure, nor is it being advertised as such.  But it does help to reduce risk.  And that's all this is about really.  Reducing risk.  I don't want to sound condescending, but the benefits to wearing a mask to minimize spread of a respiratory illness are pretty self explanatory.  And again, all that's being asked of people is to wear a paper/cloth mask when out in public and around other people.  In concept, it's really not much different than businesses requiring you to have a shirt and shoes on - especially those businesses that have to adhere to health code regulations.  Just like you having to have your body and your feet covered, for the time being you have to have your face covered too.  It's perfectly reasonable given the current situation and it's really not that difficult.  But as is often the case, as soon as people are told what to do they ***** and whine and make the whole thing a much bigger deal than it needs to be.  

I've been wearing a mask to work, the gym, the grocery store and the gas station for four months now and I've not once griped about it.  Meanwhile you have other people on Facebook and Twitter acting like their lives are being ruined.
      


  

Nice post Boss, I agree with everything you say here man. 

Here is something related to the NFL and covid.....

https://www.nfl.com/news/nflpa-72-players-tested-positive-for-covid-19-as-of-july-10

(07-16-2020, 01:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And even in those instances where everyone wears a mask people still get sick.

This is true.

Quote:While I think people should be wearing masks to help keep others from getting sick it is not proven that the mask keeps anyone safe.

This is not true. Depends upon the type of mask worn.

The CDC recommends face coverings. That could be a scarf, bandana, balaclava, etc. This helps reduce the spread of YOUR germs to others. But, they don’t 100% protect the wearer from getting sick.

By wearing a face covering you are your brother’s keeper, yet you risk infection yourself by not wearing a N95 masks.

Quote:Quit calling people names cause they don't buy all the BS.

Names aren’t beneficial. Especially when you want someone to keep an open mind.

(07-16-2020, 02:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree with a lot of what you say here Wes but with just putting on and taking off the mask you are touching your face all the 
damn time which is not a good thing regardless of what sickness it is. If I was in the city and around a lot of people I would
wear a mask, but people are getting sick all the time while wearing them too.

I just don't think we know enough about this thing to say one way or the other definitively. 

People just saying wear the mask all the time and this will go away in a couple weeks I think are wrong too. The molecules in 
this virus are extremely small and get through masks so I think this notion is wrong to just always wear masks.

As is locking down and staying in your house all scared. This is not a good idea as when you eventually do get this thing your 
immune system will be down and it will hit you harder. 

I keep some hand sanitizer in the truck. Use it on my hands before putting the mask on or taking it off if necessary.

Also, if some molecules couldn’t get through a mask, like O2, then we wouldn’t be able to breath without a tank or hose connected to oxygen. The virus is made of molecules and is much larger than a molecule. N95 masks can filter viruses. Face coverings can filter respiratory droplets of spit or snot contaminated with many copies of the virus.

The issue with masks and safety....... is ethics.

You cannot purposefully infect people in research, it is unethical. So you cannot test whether or not a mask is effective.

No one can put groups of people into a room with and w/o masks and then add viral particles to see if the mask is beneficial. So there is no direct research that proves one way or the other.

The evidence we do have is indirect, so it can be disputed by anyone. But the evidence does show that masks hinder the spread of YOUR droplets. So you would think that is sufficient enough for people to mitigate their risk TO the rest of society. You wear a mask when you ARE NOT sick and stay home when you are feeling sick.

But it was not enough for some, and we didn't control it... I've told my family all along that one of two things will have to happen..1) we all get it or 2) we get a vaccine. Here is to hoping we get a highly effective vaccine the first time around and not rush a turd through the process because of panic.

Edit: again and again with the masks and getting sick. If you are wearing a mask to protect yourself you are WRONG. You wear a mask to protect others. If you want to protect yourself you eliminate your exposure to other people. And staying home does not reduce your immune system. If you think you have a vitamin D deficiency from lack of sunlight take 5000 iu of vitamin D3 daily. Or sit by a window for an hour or 2.

(07-16-2020, 05:27 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: This is true.



This is not true. Depends upon the type of mask worn.

The CDC recommends face coverings. That could be a scarf, bandana, balaclava, etc. This helps reduce the spread of YOUR germs to others. But, they don’t 100% protect the wearer from getting sick.

By wearing a face covering you are your brother’s keeper, yet you risk infection yourself by not wearing a N95 masks.


Names aren’t beneficial. Especially when you want someone to keep an open mind.

Agreed, I should of said everyone, not anyone BTW.

Research has shown again and again that even trained healthcare professionals don't remove PPE correctly.

So if you think that an average Joe is impervious to infection with an N95 mask, you are wrong. And there are multiple versions of n95 masks. The construction n95 masks vent out... so they are not helping society at all.

(07-16-2020, 06:19 PM)TPAjwPhilly Wrote: Research has shown again and again that even trained healthcare professionals don't remove PPE correctly.

So if you think that an average Joe is impervious to infection with an N95 mask, you are wrong. And there are multiple versions of n95 masks. The construction n95 masks vent out... so they are not helping society at all.

I'm not sure how this is so hard for people to understand.  The masks do more to prevent you from spreading it than the reverse.  No one is saying wearing a mask is making you immune to catching it.  But what it is doing is decreasing the spread from those who have it.

(07-16-2020, 06:41 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm not sure how this is so hard for people to understand.  The masks do more to prevent you from spreading it than the reverse.  No one is saying wearing a mask is making you immune to catching it.  But what it is doing is decreasing the spread from those who have it.

That is exactly my point. You should read some of my posts and past messages (i.e. the post directly above) to get the gist of why that excerpt exists

(07-16-2020, 12:19 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm very curious to see if any state laws will affect the beginning of camp.  I don't understand how athletes circumvent these.

As it stands right now New York has a list 19 states that have travel restrictions when traveling from.  You're to fill to fill out a form upon arrival to any airport and list where you'll be staying, and you're required to quarantine for 14 days. Non-compliance is to be met with a fine and a hearing in front of a judge, where supervised quarantine may be ordered.  Other states have issued stay at home orders and similar travel bans and restrictions.  

I would like to see sports return as much as the next person but I'll be extremely disappointed if somehow professional athletes are exempt from these rules.  Not just because I think these orders are being made for a reason and that we need to get a handle on this, but because there is no reason they should be treated any differently than any other American.

What message does it send if all of these rules and regulations are put in place if a select few are allowed to ignore them?  How can a govenor or local mayor urge their citizens to take this seriously and use all necessary precaution to only turn a blind eye to the actions of professional sports?

If you want people to take this seriously, and you've done the research, and you're making these rules in good faith then they need to apply to everyone.  If the Mets or Yankees have a team fly in for a game from one of these states and they're allowed to play then that's complete b.s.

Again I will use what has happened over here to explain. Our professional sports over here have been given exemptions from governments, not because they are being viewed as more important but because they have been able to show that the players and club staff are living under stricter biosecurity measures than the general public. Currently only 1 state has a lockdown but since March our players have been locked down, they are only allowed to leave their house to go to training or games. There are strict biosecurity measures in place at training and game venues, our sports are actually leading the country in that regard and the government has used the reports and measures put in place by the sports to help guide decisions about other industries.

That is why I was disappointed with the NFL allowing each team to set its own policies for game attendance, an organisation the size of the NFL should be leading the country on this.

(07-16-2020, 06:41 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm not sure how this is so hard for people to understand.  The masks do more to prevent you from spreading it than the reverse.  No one is saying wearing a mask is making you immune to catching it.  But what it is doing is decreasing the spread from those who have it.

Because some people in a position to disseminate accurate information have done a poor job.

If I told you we might be able to have football this fall, keep the economy open, and send the kids to school . . . if we all wear a mask, would you do it?

(07-16-2020, 07:22 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If I told you we might be able to have football this fall, keep the economy open, and send the kids to school . . . if we all wear a mask, would you do it?

I wear a mask

The word might kills the question. If do a great job, I might give you a raise or I might let you keep your job. My point is need more certainty in your question in might. 

Update, my grandson was diagnosed today with the China Corona Virus. My daughter and rest of her immediate family are awaiting results. Good news is he feels great, just has to stay quarantined for 10 days or he has 5 days of no fever. BYW..They all have worn masks and stayed at home as much as possible, no friends r family contact, yet at least one has it.