(08-05-2020, 06:31 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Part of that growth is just not being injured. The 0 years is from a season he played 3 games, and only had 2 targets before he was out hurt.

There is improved production but the most important ability is availability and when you are dropping easy catches still in your 3rd year (2nd if you wash out year one due to injury) and now have to complete with Higgins, Boyd, Green and Tate for WR targets, I think he will be written off quickly if Burrow can't count on him to catch it or try to break up a pick. 

I want him to succeed, he wears a Bengal jersey, so as long as he is on this team I will want him to break out and be a success, I just think he's going to go the way of Ced, and Billy Price as first round what were they thinking picks.

Last year, Boyd ranked 7th in the league in Targets.  Tate was tied for 66th and Erickson tied for 68th.  Ross was 107th.  Boyd was 25th in receiving yards.  Tate was 72nd.  Erickson was 79th.  Ross was 84th.  

Could Ross have been more productive if he eliminated the drops and gaffes?  Likely.  However, he was more productive with his targets than any other WR on the team.  He was literally the only WR we had who's yardage ranking was higher than his target volume.  There wasn't a WR on this team last year that was really that great.  I don't really get continuing to pick at the guy who was most productive with his targets while giving a pass to guys with greater, but less obvious, failures.

At the end of the day, all these guys should have to prove themselves and earn their spots in TC, no exceptions.  We  need a lot more out of that position group than we got last year.  There's a lot of guys in that group that need to play better and prove they can stay healthy.

Here are Alex Erickson's YPR ranks over the last 4 years. (These numbers use a qualifyer of a minimum of 20 returns)

2019 - 12th out of 15
2018 - 9th out 19
2017 - 20th out of 25
2016 - 18th out of 21

-He ranks in bottom 25% in 3 of his 4 years.

-His best year was the definition of "average".

-He's had ZERO TD's in 103 attempts, which ranks near the top of league in returns over that span.

-He's had 14 fumbles on punt returns in 4 years (3.5 per season).

Conclusion - He's not that good.

(08-05-2020, 07:39 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Here are Alex Erickson's YPR ranks over the last 4 years.  (These numbers use a qualifyer of a minimum of 20 returns)

2019 - 12th out of 15th
2018 - 9th out 19
2017 - 20th out of 25
2016 - 18th of 21

-He ranks in bottom 25% in 3 of his 4 years.

-His best year was the definition of "average".

-He's had ZERO TD's in 103 attempts, which ranks near the top of league in returns over that span.

-He's had 14 fumbles on punt returns in 4 years (3.5 per season).

Conclusion - He's not that good.

Erickson gets praised for being average around these parts. He's a decent player. But if your expecting big plays 
From him forget it. He's never going to outrun coverage. 

Ericksons best play last year was when he was forced nearly out of bounds on a return, fought to stay in bounds and instantly fumbled. Good job son.

(08-05-2020, 07:29 PM)Whatever Wrote: Last year, Boyd ranked 7th in the league in Targets.  Tate was tied for 66th and Erickson tied for 68th.  Ross was 107th.  Boyd was 25th in receiving yards.  Tate was 72nd.  Erickson was 79th.  Ross was 84th.  

Could Ross have been more productive if he eliminated the drops and gaffes?  Likely.  However, he was more productive with his targets than any other WR on the team.  He was literally the only WR we had who's yardage ranking was higher than his target volume.  There wasn't a WR on this team last year that was really that great.  I don't really get continuing to pick at the guy who was most productive with his targets while giving a pass to guys with greater, but less obvious, failures.

At the end of the day, all these guys should have to prove themselves and earn their spots in TC, no exceptions.  We  need a lot more out of that position group than we got last year.  There's a lot of guys in that group that need to play better and prove they can stay healthy.

Boyd -  2nd round pick

Tate - 7th round pick

Erickson - Undrafted

Ross - 1st round 

So he out performed a 7th rounder and an UDFA?? I would not say Ross outperformed Boyd in any world. 

The issue is, he is a 1st round pick, not a 7th or UDFA. If he had the same numbers as a 4th or 5th round pick, no complaints but you can not perform this poorly as the number 9 pick (right before Patrick Mahomes) and not catch a ton of heat.

A first round pick is expected to contribute and in a big way. It's why everyone gave Ced so much flack, and Billy Price. 

(08-05-2020, 07:39 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Here are Alex Erickson's YPR ranks over the last 4 years.  (These numbers use a qualifyer of a minimum of 20 returns)

2019 - 12th out of 15
2018 - 9th out 19
2017 - 20th out of 25
2016 - 18th out of 21

-He ranks in bottom 25% in 3 of his 4 years.

-His best year was the definition of "average".

-He's had ZERO TD's in 103 attempts, which ranks near the top of league in returns over that span.

-He's had 14 fumbles on punt returns in 4 years (3.5 per season).

Conclusion - He's not that good.

(08-05-2020, 07:46 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Erickson gets praised for being average around these parts. He's a decent player. But if your expecting big plays 
From him forget it. He's never going to outrun coverage. 

He is also an UDFA not the #9 over all pick. 

Being average and in the league and contributing at all as an UDFA is actually pretty impressive.

(08-05-2020, 12:56 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Except the 5’11” guy has bigger legs and bigger arms. What were you looking at that you think is huge?

Ross is super cut, and always has been (look at his combine pics) so I’m not sure what your trying to prove.

My point was there’s been a lot of comparisons of Tee to AJ so I for some reason thought they probably had similar body types. But they clearly don’t.

(08-05-2020, 08:22 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: He is also an UDFA not the #9 over all pick. 

Being average and in the league and contributing at all as an UDFA is actually pretty impressive.

I think fans in general tend to look at where players are drafted and we use that in our arguments 


But to quote Marvin Lewis " it doesn't matter how you got here, it's what you do when you get here" 
I think coaches and GMs at times forget where a player was drafted or if he was a, UDFA. 
All they want to do is find the best 53 and roll with it. 
I realize yeah some 1st RD picks get more room or margin to develop cause of the financial investment 

I've seen 1st RD picks get benched and eventually cut in favor of lower RD picks who simply outplayed them.

The truth is as much as Ross as underachived  he's still 5x the WR Erickson is. 
Erickson has had 2 years to develop into a threat.

Offenses need TDS in order to give your team a chance to win. 
Ross scores TDS  Erickson doesn't 

(08-05-2020, 09:01 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think fans in general tend to look at where players are drafted and we use that in our arguments 


But to quote Marvin Lewis " it doesn't matter how you got here, it's what you do when you get here" 
I think coaches and GMs at times forget where a player was drafted or if he was a, UDFA. 
All they want to do is find the best 53 and roll with it. 
I realize yeah some 1st RD picks get more room or margin to develop cause of the financial investment 

I've seen 1st RD picks get benched and eventually cut in favor of lower RD picks who simply outplayed them.

The truth is as much as Ross as underachived  he's still 5x the WR Erickson is. 
Erickson has had 2 years to develop into a threat.

Offenses need TDS in order to give your team a chance to win. 
Ross scores TDS  Erickson doesn't 

With Green back and Boyd and now Higgins plus Tate, I think both Erickson and Ross are expendable.

(08-05-2020, 08:22 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: He is also an UDFA not the #9 over all pick. 

Being average and in the league and contributing at all as an UDFA is actually pretty impressive.

I would never argue that what he's accomplished, given he's an UDFA, isn't impressive. I commend guys like him he battle tooth and nail to make a roster and contribute.

But I wasn't having a discussion about whether or not he's outplayed his draft position. I'm simply talking about whether or not he's worthy of a spot on this roster.

Erickson had a few decent returns his first year or two as a Bengal. Since then a lot of fans including myself have held him in high regard.

However the #'s are starting to speak and we need a better player.

(08-05-2020, 09:35 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Tee Higgins will raise the level of competition in the WR room. Ross isnt just going to concede that 3rd WR spot
Funny how,the same used narrative on Ross that he's mentally weak wasnt brought up after week 2,of the NFL season
When he led the league in yardage and YPC.
With AJ back Tee and Ross should feast on mismatches downfield

I'm afraid one stellar game doesn't make up for the remaining 47 duds he's put up.

Higgins will own the job by season's end, if not by week 4.

 

(08-05-2020, 10:21 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I'm afraid one stellar game doesn't make up for the remaining 47 duds he's put up.

Higgins will own the job by season's end, if not by week 4.

 

I know you’re exaggerating, but he’s only played in 24 games. Which is pretty crazy. You can talk about the mental side of the game, giving up on routes, drops, etc but the main thing that has held Ross back at the NFL level is inability to stay healthy.

(08-05-2020, 10:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I know you’re exaggerating, but he’s only played in 24 games. Which is pretty crazy. You can talk about the mental side of the game, giving up on routes, drops, etc but the main thing that has held Ross back at the NFL level is inability to stay healthy.

I can't fault Ross for his chest injury last year. AD threw a ball that exposed Ross's chest and Haden popped him good 
It can happen to any WR especially when Dalton is throwing  to you. Ross knows this is a huge year for him.
He's not dumb. But people act like he hasn't made progress as a WR . The truth is he has. 

(08-05-2020, 08:20 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Boyd -  2nd round pick

Tate - 7th round pick

Erickson - Undrafted

Ross - 1st round 

So he out performed a 7th rounder and an UDFA?? I would not say Ross outperformed Boyd in any world. 

The issue is, he is a 1st round pick, not a 7th or UDFA. If he had the same numbers as a 4th or 5th round pick, no complaints but you can not perform this poorly as the number 9 pick (right before Patrick Mahomes) and not catch a ton of heat.

A first round pick is expected to contribute and in a big way. It's why everyone gave Ced so much flack, and Billy Price. 

Hardy Nickerson Jr. was an UDFA and he's reviled.  Bobby Hart was a 7th round pick.  You seem to get flack when your number gets called and you can't get the job done unless you're a WR other than John Ross.

Christian McCafferty averaged more yards/target last year than Boyd.  When you're a de facto #1 WR and RB's are more productive in the passing game, you're not doing very well.  

I could care less where any of these guys are drafted when it comes to roster spots and playing time.  The best guys should play and the worst guys should get cut.  The fact that Ross has been a disappointment thus far and guys like Erickson and Tate have exceeded expectations based on draft position means nothing, because those guys still aren't better players than Ross is.  They've had 2 years to prove it and haven't.  I have high hopes for Higgins for the future, but as a rookie WR coming in with virtual OTA's and no preseason games, I don't have high hopes that he's going to see a lot of significant reps unless guys get injured in front of him.  As fans, we are virtually blind this off-season due to not being able to attend practices of watch pre-season games, so there's zero logical reason to project a veteran player being expendable because of worse veteran players behind him.  Hopefully, AJ stays healthy and bumps Boyd, Ross, Tate, and company a rung or two down the depth chart where they belong.  

(08-05-2020, 11:41 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I can't fault Ross for his chest injury last year. AD threw a ball that exposed Ross's chest and Haden popped him good 
It can happen to any WR especially when Dalton is throwing  to you. Ross knows this is a huge year for him.
He's not dumb. But people act like he hasn't made progress as a WR . The truth is he has. 

Well you can’t really “fault” most players for their injuries unless they do something really stupid. Regardless, his constant injuries have been a big problem.

(08-05-2020, 09:23 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I would never argue that what he's accomplished, given he's an UDFA, isn't impressive. I commend guys like him he battle tooth and nail to make a roster and contribute.

But I wasn't having a discussion about whether or not he's outplayed his draft position. I'm simply talking about whether or not he's worthy of a spot on this roster.

At this point, I think you can safely say Erickson and Ross are both expendable... until we get through camp and see what the injury report looks like.

4 WR set. Higgins and Green on the outside. Boyd and Ross in the slots.

Solid.

Even if we swap out Tate for Ross that's still solid.

(08-04-2020, 11:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Also, what the hell is up with John Ross’ leg?

Looks like my right vs my left nut