(08-24-2020, 08:27 PM)J24 Wrote: Honestly what do the players expect the Teams to do?

That would be my question, too. And I bet Mike Brown would have the same question. Maybe Carlos has some suggestions. Mike should hear him out. Don't let this fester. This could turn toxic.

I don't blame Carlos for asking the Bengals and Reds to get behind something. Maybe that something should be to promote economic growth and opportunity in poverty-ridden areas. That's what's needed most. It's hard to have hope, when you don't see any opportunity. If you care, show me you care. Don't just tell me. Give me an opportunity to achieve economic security for myself and my family.

Mike Brown owns a football team. Carlos is a football player who is paid millions by Mike Brown. He should leave it at that and spend his own money if he wants to. I'm pretty sick of people telling other people what they need to do with theirs.

(08-25-2020, 08:38 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Mike Brown owns a football team. Carlos is a football player who is paid millions by Mike Brown. He should leave it at that and spend his own money if he wants to. I'm pretty sick of people telling other people what they need to do with theirs.

Seems to me Carlos was more interested in some public comments from the team more than money.  Lots of people with money don't have the public platform and news coverage that professional sports teams do.

Why would anyone be upset by the team doing more to oppose racial injustice?

(08-25-2020, 09:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Seems to me Carlos was more interested in some public comments from the team more than money.  Lots of people with money don't have the public platform and news coverage that professional sports teams do. 

Why would anyone be upset by the team doing more to oppose racial injustice?

I agree that Carlos was looking for more public leadership than just a perfunctory statement and for an NFL team a token amount of money.  Publically, the Bengals said and did the least they could do other than ignoring the situation.  He is looking for action not money.  And to be sure he also called out the ownership/leadership of the Reds and FC Cincy also. 

 Mike Brown has a platform that he seldomly chooses to take advantage of.  He prefers to let his business practices speak for themselves but sometimes even NFL owners need to step outside their comfort zone and take a bigger leadership role in their community.  He also needs to be more public about his support for player's efforts in the community.  I think that is what Carlos was trying to say

I hope what we heard is not signs of fissures in the locker room.  I also hope that Carlos, Mike, and Katie get together.  They can learn a lot from each other.

(08-25-2020, 09:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Seems to me Carlos was more interested in some public comments from the team more than money.  Lots of people with money don't have the public platform and news coverage that professional sports teams do.

Why would anyone be upset by the team doing more to oppose racial injustice?

I get his frustration because I deal with it with some of my friends.  They will prattle on for hours about what other people need to do to help fix issues while they have given none of their own time or money to help with those issues.  You can't expect other people to make something more of a priority than you do.

I think Carlos is in the wrong on this for the simple fact that he called out the team and Mike before he ever asked to discuss the issue in private.  He freely admitted that he hasn't asked Mike for this meeting, yet.  

The other issue is that Mike is a pretty self-aware owner.  He knows he's probably one of the top 5 most hated men in Cinci.  If he makes a statement about rallying together to fight racial injustice, folks are about as likely to run out and join the KKK. That's why he gave money to the coaches and players to set up programs.  That makes the coaches and players the faces of those programs and people actually like/respect those guys, making them more likely to listen.

(08-25-2020, 09:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Seems to me Carlos was more interested in some public comments from the team more than money.  Lots of people with money don't have the public platform and news coverage that professional sports teams do.

Why would anyone be upset by the team doing more to oppose racial injustice?

Personally I'd be upset with an employee who went publicly about what I'm "not doing" before he tried too discuss it with me. IMO the issue is moot in this case.

(08-25-2020, 09:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Seems to me Carlos was more interested in some public comments from the team more than money.  Lots of people with money don't have the public platform and news coverage that professional sports teams do.

Why would anyone be upset by the team doing more to oppose racial injustice?

Comments from a man who is almost universally hated and made fun of by the fans who know who he is, and from a man who non-fans would have no idea who he is?  No one is upset the team if the team was doing more to oppose racial injustice, the conversation is about Carlos calling the team ownership out before he even speaks with them. Red Herring.

This is tough. Good on Carlos for using his platform to speak up about issues. I understand that people don't like hearing athletes and celebrities put in their 2 cents, but they have a platform that reaches many. They can use that platform for good. I don't like when they try to tell people who to vote for, but standing up for social justice is a good thing. A lot of people hear what they say.

I can understand him wanting to meet with Mike Brown. I don't know that he needed to speak about publicly before it happened. I'm not sure what he wants Mike Brown to do, but I think it's very proactive to want to meet with him and have a discussion. Maybe the Bengals could further be a leader in the NFL for social justice.

(08-25-2020, 09:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Seems to me Carlos was more interested in some public comments from the team more than money.  Lots of people with money don't have the public platform and news coverage that professional sports teams do.

Why would anyone be upset by the team doing more to oppose racial injustice?

Bingo.

It seems Carlos (and perhaps others) would like for their organization to make a public statement to show where they stand on what's happening.

Believe me when I say this, it can definitely motivate one to try harder for their company if they know that their company holds the same values they do and take action to uphold those values.

(08-24-2020, 09:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Spot on and it's why my only comment is "How would you feel as his boss".

As example: The word "unhappy" is referenced once in the article and it was in what the author titled it.  

No idea who  Richard Skinner is, but Carlos should punch him in the mouth

The story is much more logical and complimentary of the Bengals if you read it in the context of truth as opposed to how Richard Skinner wants to tell it:

Quote:Bengals left end Carlos Dunlap, soon to be his franchise's all-time sack leader, has eyes on taking down something more important than quarterbacks and more insidious than stats.

Racism.
He felt its sting long before this July and far away from that patch of grass somewhere in Fort Lauderdale as he tried to get in some field work while the pandemic put its stranglehold on the gyms of Florida.
Discrimination may have been evident often enough down through the years to him, but his group of about five black NFL players were appalled that it was at this moment in time that the park ranger tossed them out and let the white group keep roaming on the grass.
"It was very frustrating because it was the day after a lot of this stuff had been happening," Dunlap recalled after Monday's practice. "It was during the protests. It was all over all media and for us to be singled-out, we were compelled to speak out so we asked them, 'Why did you demand that we leave the field and go to another field when we explained that we were almost done, literally five-10 minutes, versus the other group that was able to finish the workout?' And he pretty much watched and damn-near cheered them on."

Two months later and it still hurts. It always hurts. But it doesn't surprise Dunlap. Yet he is emboldened by the surge of activism stemming from the summer protests and he's hopeful the NFL and the Bengals take the next leap.
He took note of the Bengals formation of a Positive Community Impact Committee spearheaded back in June by the team's new director of strategy and engagement Elizabeth Blackburn, the great granddaughter of Bengals founder Paul Brown.
"They've done a great job creating a committee and putting together a plan. Elizabeth gets it," Dunlap said. "She's been adamant about putting together a plan, about getting into the community and making a difference. But we still need everyone to get on board. Without everyone on board, it's just a plan, a dream, or a temporary fix. It's not going to be a long-term solution as what's needed."
During the summer, Blackburn put together a committee she's steering with her mother, Bengals executive vice president Katie Blackburn, about ten players, director of player relations Eric Ball and some department heads throughout Paul Brown Stadium.


Last week the committee met via Zoom to continue the players' decision-making process on which civic groups to bestow the club's commitment of $250,000 in the cause of social justice. The Bengals have been talking to groups ranging from a company trying to connect poor students with school internet to a firm that fosters and funds minority-owned businesses.
"We're taking the proper steps and trying to make sure we shed light on the situation," said veteran tight end C.J. Uzomah. "The owners are in there and players in that committee are asking a lot of the owners to help us with that, to help meet with us when we do certain things and they're all on board. From my perspective and this is just from my own perspective I think they're taking the right steps and trying to help us move in the right direction."
Dunlap says he'd like to take the discussion right to the top to Bengals president Mike Brown. He'd like to hear some more from the team.
"I don't want them to check the box. I want them to do something they are passionate about. That way, they're physically and emotionally invested in it as we all are," Dunlap said. "I just wanted to have that conversation with him personally, 1-on-1. And however that conversation goes once we leave the room, I leave that alone from that angle and I'll go about it the way that I feel like is best to help my community and to do long-term change from there. Personally, I feel compelled with the platform that we have. We have a great opportunity to make the biggest ripple effects."
Brown, 85, has a long history of having an open door for his players. He knows the subject well. Once during the team's visit to the Pro Football Hall of Fame about a decade ago, he showed a group of players the exhibit with the contracts produced by his father, Paul Brown, and signed by Bill Willis and Marion Motley that helped break the color line in pro football with the Cleveland Browns.

Dunlap knows this is a difficult time to even meet, but he's been a Bengal for 11 seasons and he knows Mike Brown is as approachable as they come.
"If I asked him in person, I think he might honor that," Dunlap said. "So that's good a call to action that I should do. But we're in different tiers right now obviously with what's going on. He's an older man, so I want to respect his space and social distance. It's kind of tough because I don't want to do it on no Zoom. I would like to sit at a table."
Dunlap is perplexed that people may be upset that he has voiced his feelings.
"I don't understand," Dunlap said. "I am a football player, but the reason why I work so hard and the same passion I have on the field came from me being raised in those communities that are being neglected. And they're calling for our help. So who am I to turn my back on my community, where I'm from and how I was raised?"
The start to that answer, the Bengals hope, is the committee. Uzomah, who is a member, calls the Positive Community Impact Committee, "The Get Stuff Done Committee."

"It's small steps is what it takes," Uzomah said. "I think everything happens in small baby steps. I think that's what we're trying to do right now is find a few things that we can in the community locally, with the owners with the players with the coaches with everyone in the building to show we're a united front."
Dunlap, it seems, has no problem going to the front after getting pushed to the side on a patch of grass in the summer.

(08-25-2020, 11:19 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Bingo.

It seems Carlos (and perhaps others) would like for their organization to make a public statement to show where they stand on what's happening.

The Bengals did, though. Carlos wants them to do MORE.

(08-25-2020, 12:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The story is much more logical and complimentary of the Bengals if you read it in the context of truth as opposed to how Richard Skinner wants to tell it:

Agreed.   I think the article shows the understandable frustration with the problem he experienced at the park - which sounds despicable.

But it also voices the belief that Mike (under pre- COVID circumstances) would be glad to sit down with him.  I think Carlos really feels the need to sit down with him in a room and talk.  But you're talking an 85 year old man in scary times.  The best bet would be to talk at a table outside in the shade in the cool of the day.   I hope it can happen.

I have always admired Mr. Rooney - his vision and his humility.   And while I've been totally frustrated with Mr. Brown's inflexibility at times I have always felt that he was a basically good man.  Kind of an irony that owners of such bitter rivals shared some good character qualities.

I don't think anyone but the park ranger looks bad in this article.   I'm pleased with Carlos and the Bengals.   And while I think reverse racism is a real thing and just as despicable, there is no question that most of us have no idea what it has been like for people of color to grow up in the US.  They have a different heritage and a different reality much of the time.  That clearly came out in some of the quotes made by Caucasian players during behind closed doors talks that occurred over the off season.  

It would be hard to stomach what many African-Americans experience, and I admire the restraint that so many have shown - as well as the sensitivity that guys like Glascow showed following sit downs with their fellow players.

I'd really like to know more about the park incident. Carlos is ascribing it to racism, and maybe it was. But then again maybe it wasn't. They got kicked out of the park because the park was closed. The soccer team got kicked out because the park was closed. The Ranger then went to the "white" NFL players and "watched them". So was this as racist as it appears. Maybe so. Or, maybe he went over there and recognized some players from his favorite team and gave them a little leeway before telling them to leave. Or, maybe he was just more interested in the drills they were doing and watched for a dew minutes. Or maybe he took a phone call. This may or may not have been about racism, but everything is not always racist. Just sometimes there are other factors. If I were a Park Ranger and there were Bengals players and Stealers players there, guess which one's I'd kick out first?

Sounds like Carlos is upset with what a lot of corporations are doing, "woke posturing." Examples include removing Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben symbols. Not that those decisions were necessarily bad things, but it's just not what the protests are asking for. It feels empty of meaning because it, in large part, is.

Too often, corporations will only follow the public sentiment rather than be the ones to push forward. You saw it with Black Lives Matter just a few months ago. For years, BLM was considered a relative fringe movement with less than 50% of people supporting them. Very few, if any, corporations made up that minority support. Then the George Floyd murder occurred, which rocketed BLM's approval rating into the 80s (I believe) and then suddenly every single corporation is posting black squares and BLM hashtags. BLM had become socially sanitary such that corporations could express support without risking a loss of business.

Similarly, official press releases are often dry and non-committal and it seems like Carlos would like to see a more personal touch given. It's true the Bengals donated a healthy amount of money for community activities, so they went further than a lot of corporate wokeness campaigns and they deserve credit for that (which Dunlap gives).

I don't think much will come of this, but I'll never tell Dunlap not to speak his feelings. I also think a lot of this is reverberations from when the Bengals told their players not to kneel during the whole thing with Kaepernick. And they repeated it when they, reportedly, asked Eric Reid "if we sign you, do you promise not to kneel" to which he said no. Those were definitely moments when the Bengals could have been at the forefront of human rights, but chose not to because it wasn't considered socially sanitary yet.

(08-24-2020, 08:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote:

(08-24-2020, 11:56 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Around these parts we just refer to him as Dick.

(08-25-2020, 11:19 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Bingo.

It seems Carlos (and perhaps others) would like for their organization to make a public statement to show where they stand on what's happening.

Believe me when I say this, it can definitely motivate one to try harder for their company if they know that their company holds the same values they do and take action to uphold those values.

Maybe it would have been as something as simple as showing Mike issuing the statement himself via video rather than putting out a press release.  

(08-25-2020, 12:40 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The Bengals did, though. Carlos wants them to do MORE.

I must have missed that then. I'm not surprised Carlos wants them to do more.

How has Dunlap worked for a guy for going on his 11th year and not realized that going public first rather than talking to him one-on-one in private first will just cause Mike Brown to shut down and dig in on principle?

The guy would rather let his franchise QB retire than give into demands by players made through the media. (At least until Hue goes and massively overpays.)

(08-25-2020, 03:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How has Dunlap worked for a guy for going on his 11th year and not realized that going public first rather than talking to him one-on-one in private first will just cause Mike Brown to shut down and dig in on principle?

The guy would rather let his franchise QB retire than give into demands by players made through the media. (At least until Hue goes and massively overpays.)

He said he would have, but can't do it in a COVID situation.

Not making excuses, just repeating what he said.

(08-24-2020, 08:16 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Carlos has been a class player on and off the field. He wants a meeting with Mike good for Carlos. Those hating on Carlos shame on you.

Shame on you for accusing some criticism as hate. That’s bush league.
I could just as easily dismiss Carlos criticism of the Browns as “hate”.
But I don’t. The Bengals organization aren’t obligated to do what Carlos expects anymore than he is obligated to follow the ownerships wishes on his beliefs and actions off the field.