(08-21-2020, 06:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The only reason he played last year was because of injuries.

With the return of Green and the addition of Higgins I don't think we will see him much if everyone stays healthy.  But since Green and Ross are so fragile he could get a good bit of playing time.

Depth is important.

You most definitely will see alot of Tate. Especially in the red zone.....

(08-27-2020, 08:07 PM)Whatever Wrote: He is not going to get screens and drag routes because those are designed to get the ball to YAC threats in space.  It's not really fair to say that the others have their stats inflated by running certain routes when Tate doesn't have the skill set to be a viable option on those routes.  That's probably my biggest issue with him as a player.  He has a very narrow skill set as a receiving option.

The other issue with that argument is that Tate gets worse separation than Boyd and Ross, so defenders are going to affect the throw to him more.  Ross has more Targeted Air Yards than either by a wide margin, but has a higher target quality because he can separate quicker and create easier throws despite operating further upfield.  I know you're dismissive of separation, but there appears to be a correlation there.

He's also not a good route runner.  In the Baltimore game you're referring to, he makes a diving catch on an out route where he starts his break just inside the 10 and makes the catch near the 6.  You can't round your route off 3-1/2 yards up field.  I give him props for making the grab, but that's an example of a "poor throw" he created by running a bad route.  Also in that Baltimore game, he had two back shoulder throws he jumped for.  That's common among big receivers with bad footwork.  They jump and rotate their bodies in the air to make the grab because they don't have good enough footwork to get around for it.  Honestly, if you look through most of Tate's highlights, most of them are just back shoulder throws he's jumping to get his body around for.

He's not a guy you want out there every down because he has a limited skill set and a lot of routes that he's simply ineffective running, so it allows the defense to cheat.  He's a good possession 4th WR.  He could hypothetically be a good red zone threat, but he has yet to show it.  

I disagree with a lot of your assumptions and analysis here, but again not going to do this debate for like the 4th time. I look forward to him having a breakout year. Since his issues were on him and not Dalton, per many here, QB play this year should have no bearing on his performance.

(08-27-2020, 07:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Exhausting isn’t it?

I've watched him play this game since 05 and it gets very exhausting.

(08-27-2020, 09:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: I disagree with a lot of your assumptions and analysis here, but again not going to do this debate for like the 4th time. I look forward to him having a breakout year. Since his issues were on him and not Dalton, per many here,  QB play this year should have no bearing on his performance.

I don't get, at all, why these guys try and tear Tate down ?

(08-27-2020, 03:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The receiver gets to the spot he is supposed to be at the right time.  Also needs to get in and out of cuts quickly to get separation.

How does the film tell you where Tate is supposed to be?  If a throw is high how do you tell when the receiver is to blame for running a poor route or the QB is to blame for making a bad pass.  What specifically do you look at to tell the difference?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but...QBs throw to a "spot", to an extent. There is a specific place a receiver is supposed to be on most routes but if the QB is looking at a receiver on his break, he's not going to throw to the "spot" the receiver is supposed to be if the QB sees that he's not quite there. He's going to throw to the receiver. 

(08-27-2020, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So how do you tell who to blame?

How do they rate all these "catchable passes" when they don't know who messed up?

I think the best gauge is...was the ball in the receivers 'catch radius' or did the receiver have to to be a gymnist to try and get the ball. 

That's the simplest way to look at it. 

Auden.Tate essentially proved Marvin Lewis wrong
He can play at the NFL level.

Got a feeling the WR depth chart is this right now:

Green
Boyd
Ross
Tate
Higgins
Thomas

All the rest

With Green not doing 11 on 11 or 7 on 7, it’s been Tate out there in his place, not Higgins.

(08-27-2020, 11:50 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Got a feeling the WR depth chart is this right now:

Green
Boyd
Ross
Tate
Higgins
Thomas

All the rest

With Green not doing 11 on 11 or 7 on 7, it’s been Tate out there in his place, not Higgins.

From everything I’ve heard out of camp Tate seems to be Burrow’s favorite receiver so far. Granted he hasn’t had AJ and Ross much, but still. I really don’t understand the need to downplay what he’s already done, or his potential.

(08-27-2020, 10:51 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I hate to be the bearer of bad news but...QBs throw to a "spot", to an extent. There is a specific place a receiver is supposed to be on most routes but if the QB is looking at a receiver on his break, he's not going to throw to the "spot" the receiver is supposed to be if the QB sees that he's not quite there. He's going to throw to the receiver. 

Do you meant to tell me if a receiver runs a curl and he's wide open and the QB sees him but the receiver was supposed to be running a fly pattern the QB has the ability to throw it to him ? Astonishing 

I thought the QB had to go ahead and launch it 50 yards downfield, "to a spot"

(08-27-2020, 06:55 PM)Au165 Wrote: Sure, in our zoom call you can do that and I’ll do the same and ask you what the passing play was, what the route combos were, and what the reads were.

Since you’ve spent the thread answering every question with a question I’m guessing the answer to my last question was a no.

I have never claimed that I have the ability to tell which player made the mistake.

We don't need to watch any film to tell that.

(08-27-2020, 10:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I don't get, at all, why these guys try and tear Tate down ?

Same old same old.

Is it really "tearing a player down" to disagree with a claim that he is an "unstoppable red zone threat" considering he has like 1 career td?  Or that he "catches everything" when he has a horrible catch percentage.  Or that it was all the QBs fault when other Bengal receivers were able to catch a lot higher percentage of passes.

I have no problem with tate making the rioster as depth.  I just disagree with the people who claim he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  

(08-28-2020, 08:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I have never claimed that I have the ability to tell which player made the mistake.

We don't need to watch any film to tell that.

There's one for the post HOF  

(08-27-2020, 10:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I don't get, at all, why these guys try and tear Tate down ?

There are currently debates going on concerning who should be the #3 WR and what WR's we should keep on the 53.  Tate falls more into the former that the latter, but pretty much all the WR's on the roster aside from AJ and Boyd have been looked at with a critical eye.

Tate gets debated more than most because he basically gets a new thread if he picks up a nickel off the sidewalk.  The mods should seriously consider an "All Things Auden Tate" thread. The guy has gotten more off-season hype than guys like Burrow and Jonah Williams.  

(08-28-2020, 10:13 AM)Whatever Wrote: The mods should seriously consider an "All Things Auden Tate" thread. The guy has gotten more off-season hype than guys like Burrow and Jonah Williams.  

Comments like this

(08-21-2020, 01:00 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Auden Tate gives me a football boner that requires medical attention.

(08-27-2020, 11:33 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Auden.Tate essentially proved Marvin Lewis wrong
He can play at the NFL level.

Marvin Lewis was the ONLY coach in the entire league willing to even give him a shot.

Auden Tate is an example of what a good eye for talent Lewis had.

(08-28-2020, 10:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Comments like this

Geez fred, you're such a football boner killer.  And I"ve never met you, but I'm also pretty sure you'd kill any non-football boner I had, too.

(08-28-2020, 10:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin Lewis was the ONLY coach in the entire league willing to even give him a shot.

Auden Tate is an example of what a good eye for talent Lewis had.

Come on, Fred...everyone knows Marvin Lewis NEVER played a single player who was under the age of 35.

(08-28-2020, 10:50 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Geez fred, you're such a football boner killer.  And I"ve never met you, but I'm also pretty sure you'd kill any non-football boner I had, too.

I think it is kind of strange for a guy to get a boner over a football player.

I mean it's not like watching Rafa glide across the court.

(08-28-2020, 08:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Same old same old.

Is it really "tearing a player down" to disagree with a claim that he is an "unstoppable red zone threat" considering he has like 1 career td?  Or that he "catches everything" when he has a horrible catch percentage.  Or that it was all the QBs fault when other Bengal receivers were able to catch a lot higher percentage of passes.

I have no problem with tate making the rioster as depth.  I just disagree with the people who claim he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  

Of course I didn't see anyone in this thread make those claims, but yeah, you're tearing him down. Hell I did it too after his 1st year, but I saw where he improved.

(08-28-2020, 10:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I think it is kind of strange for a guy to get a boner over a football player.

I mean it's not like watching Rafa glide across the court.

I said football boner not boner boner.  Duh!