(09-02-2020, 09:49 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Never had Pappadeaux. Gonna have to try it.

Take your lady.  Their desserts almost guarantee sex later...

(09-02-2020, 10:03 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wes, early on in this thread no one understood the contract details because it wasn't released.  You were pounding your first on the table (erroneously) stating the Bengals had set his value at $12 million per year and that is that.  

Once the details were made public, you could see a situation where one of the most expensive years on the contract can be voided by the club, which changed the complexion of the deal entirely.  The Bengals also wisely put a lot of the contract in the bonus so it could be paid to Joe now, but spread the cap hit out across the length of the contract.  You may not want to admit the value of paying Joe, or any RB, that kind of money and that is fine, but you need to realize that it was your early comments about the contract that most people were disagreeing with.  Now that you know all the details of the contract, if you don't agree with it....great.  That is your call.  

I, for one, think the structure of the deal is outstanding and I am ecstatic that they were able to get it done and now let's watch what happens around the league as guys like Kamara fight for their deals.

Dorothy Mantooth is still a Saint.  We are all good, bud.  

Here are the contract details: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/joe-mixon-21789/

Cap hits by year:

2020 - 4.35 mil
2021- 10.7 mil
2022 - 10.7 mil
2023 - 12.1 mil
2024 - 12.3 mil

Note: What you're seeing in year 1 is a jump from 1.3 ml to 4.35, because the signing bonus is spread equally against the contract, and it containts a roster bonus.  This is 3.05 million in new money, that comes from the new extension.

Now let's look at the rest of the new money, which comes in the extended years.  And let's say we take our club option and cut bait after 2023, where we don't owe the 12.3 mil (the highest paid season).

10.7 + 10.7 + 12.1 = 33.5 mil

33.5 mil + 3.05 mil in added payment this year = 36.05 mil

Even if we don't exercise the last season, we will have added 36.05 million dollars to our cap to keep him an additional 3 years.

Translation = 36.05/3 = 12 mil

(09-01-2020, 04:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Two things:

The Bengals are very fiscally smart when it comes to signing contracts

Joe will make $1.2 Mil for next year (rookie contract) and $48 Mil for the next 4. So the final number we spend on him for the next 5 years is $49.2 Mil or about $9.84 Mil a year. I;m sure once all the final numbers come out, Katie has set the team up successfully.

I'm glad to see it

Can we also stop the false narrative MB and the Bengals are cheap.

I am for signing Joe, but also know paying a RB a huge contract is very risky as it is a position group known for career ending injuries. If that happens, we are stuck with the guaranteed portion.

But, I am happy for Joe and also sends a message to players on our team and other team players are paid well with 2nd contracts if they perfrom well.

(09-02-2020, 11:04 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Can we also stop the false narrative MB and the Bengals are cheap.

I am for signing Joe, but also know paying a RB a huge contract is very risky as it is a position group known for career ending injuries. If that happens, we are stuck with the guaranteed portion.

But, I am happy for Joe and also sends a message to players on our team and other team players are paid well with 2nd contracts if they perfrom well.

They’ve never really been cheap with their own players. They paid guys like Carson, Geno, AJ etc huge contracts. The problem was always not spending in FA, but that’s obviously not even true anymore with the Reader and Waynes deals.

(09-02-2020, 10:56 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Here are the contract details: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/joe-mixon-21789/

Cap hits by year:

2020 - 4.35 mil
2021- 10.7 mil
2022 - 10.7 mil
2023 - 12.1 mil
2024 - 12.3 mil

Note: What you're seeing in year 1 is a jump from 1.3 ml to 4.35, because the signing bonus is spread equally against the contract, and it containts a roster bonus.  This is 3.05 million in new money, that comes from the new extension.

Now let's look at the rest of the new money, which comes in the extended years.  And let's say we take our club option and cut bait after 2023, where we don't owe the 12.3 mil (the highest paid season).

10.7 + 10.7 + 12.1 = 33.5 mil

33.5 mil + 3.05 mil in added payment this year = 36.05 mil

Even if we don't exercise the last season, we will have added 36.05 million dollars to our cap to keep him an additional 3 years.

Translation = 36.05/3 = 12 mil

Those are for the years 2021, 2022, and 2023.  If you don't include this year, yes, $12 million per.  If you do include this year...I mean, it exists.  Why would you not include it?  It is under $10 million per year.  If the Bengals cut bait after four years by voiding the fifth year, it would be less than $10 million per year.  

I'm happy they got this done. I think it's a good deal for Mixon and the Bengals. It keeps the Joes tied together.

The people complaining about the deal would be the same ones complaining if he held out or walked after the season. He's a good young player who's best years should still be ahead of him. With Mixon in the fold, hopefully we can move on from Bernard's ridiculous deal next season. Obviously the Bengals were fine with the amount as they're the ones footing the bill. They had a solid and aggressive free agency and have now locked up one of their young, core players. I don't see what's not to be happy about.

There should still be the possibility to extend WJIII. As for AJ, I'm just not sure. Whether precaution or not, he's getting $18m this year and already has a hamstring issue. Unless AJ plays all 16 games and balls out this year, I don't really see the importance of extending him. I love the guy just as much as any other Bengals fan. He was amazing for us. However, he continues to age, continues to have injury issues, and continues costing the team a lot of money.

(09-02-2020, 11:37 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Those are for the years 2021, 2022, and 2023.  If you don't include this year, yes, $12 million per.  If you do include this year...I mean, it exists.  Why would you not include it? 

Because he was already under contract for this year.  His base salary for this year has not changed.

I'm talking the actual costs of the extension.  What did it cost to retain his services?  How much new money is added?

For those of you who are valuing his actual worth at 9.6 million.  I have a very simple question for you:  Why not just let him play out his rookie deal, and offer the 9.6 mil per at the end of the season then? 


That would've saved us a ton of money if that is truly is the worth that was just set.  But it's not.  His worth was set at 12 mil per.  That's exactly what it cost to add 4 more years to his exising deal.

(09-02-2020, 11:04 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Can we also stop the false narrative MB and the Bengals are cheap.

I am for signing Joe, but also know paying a RB a huge contract is very risky as it is a position group known for career ending injuries. If that happens, we are stuck with the guaranteed portion.

But, I am happy for Joe and also sends a message to players on our team and other team players are paid well with 2nd contracts if they perfrom well.

I wasn't my intention to call them cheap. They pay good money; however, they are usually smart about doing it. Look at Andy. We paid him a fair wage and were able to cut bait with no cost when his big money year rolled around. We have the same thing with Mixon. If he's shot after 2023 we can cut bait. My hope is he does so well we happily pay the $12.2 MIL in 2024

(09-02-2020, 11:04 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Can we also stop the false narrative MB and the Bengals are cheap.

He's never been cheap in paying his own.  In fact, you can say he's more than generous.  Hell, contracts given to guys like Gio and Bobby Hart are bordering on charitable.

That narrative has existed and comes not from player spending but everything else that surrounds the organization.

Remember, every team has to pay out an absolute minimum of 89% of the cap.  And if you look at the actual league wide spending you'll the percentages in cap spent usually exceed this.  If you look it at in spans of 4 years or more, there's not much seperation.

So knowing that, NO owner is really cheap in player spending.  They all spend a ton on payroll.  Mike is no exception.

Where the label cheap really comes from is the following:

-Smallest scouting department
-No GM/Small Front Office
-No practice facility
-No team investment in stadium upgrades and/or fan experience. (Hall of fame, Ring of Honor, Fan Fest, Bars/Restaraunts in stadium, etc.)
-Stories told throughout the years (Coach plain tickets, small towels, coin operated pop machines, locked up Gatorade, no ammentities, etc.)

If anyone has ever accused Mike of being cheap in keeping guys around then they're mistaken.

If anyone thinks the above somehow absolves him from the cheap label then they're missing why the label exists in the first place.

(09-02-2020, 11:37 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I'm happy they got this done. I think it's a good deal for Mixon and the Bengals. It keeps the Joes tied together.

The people complaining about the deal would be the same ones complaining if he held out or walked after the season. He's a good young player who's best years should still be ahead of him. With Mixon in the fold, hopefully we can move on from Bernard's ridiculous deal next season. Obviously the Bengals were fine with the amount as they're the ones footing the bill. They had a solid and aggressive free agency and have now locked up one of their young, core players. I don't see what's not to be happy about.

There should still be the possibility to extend WJIII. As for AJ, I'm just not sure. Whether precaution or not, he's getting $18m this year and already has a hamstring issue. Unless AJ plays all 16 games and balls out this year, I don't really see the importance of extending him. I love the guy just as much as any other Bengals fan. He was amazing for us. However, he continues to age, continues to have injury issues, and continues costing the team a lot of money.

I don't think many of the people that don't like the deal would complain if Joe left after the season.  In fact, a big part of the argument against paying RB's big second contracts is that they are easily replaceable.  RB's taken in the first couple of rounds tend to have a relatively high hit probability.  As others have mentioned, next year also has a stacked FA RB class,so you can get a comparable back for less money.  Another big concern with RB's is that usually their best years are actually behind them when they get that 2nd deal.

The contract is structured so that the Bengals can get out after next year if they need to, but the big concern is the Brown family holding onto Joe past his sell by date for big money out of loyalty.

(09-02-2020, 12:33 PM)Whatever Wrote: The contract is structured so that the Bengals can get out after next year if they need to, but the big concern is the Brown family holding onto Joe past his sell by date for big money out of loyalty.

The problem is even if they choose to to get out after next seaon they'll have paid him 21 million dollars for 2 seaons of work.

His rookie contract would have paid him around 1.7 mil.  The franchise tag amount for running backs in 2020 is currently set at 10.278 million.  So by letting him play out his existing deal, and simple tagging him, it would have cost roughly 12 mil for the same two years.

Just food for thought, if somehow they do elect to opt out after 2021...

(09-02-2020, 11:59 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Because he was already under contract for this year.  His base salary for this year has not changed.

I'm talking the actual costs of the extension.  What did it cost to retain his services?  How much new money is added?

For those of you who are valuing his actual worth at 9.6 million.  I have a very simple question for you:  Why not just let him play out his rookie deal, and offer the 9.6 mil per at the end of the season then? 


That would've saved us a ton of money if that is truly is the worth that was just set.  But it's not.  His worth was set at 12 mil per.  That's exactly what it cost to add 4 more years to his exising deal.

The VERY simple answer is because he earns 100% of the bonus today and was making peanuts in comparison to his production as a rookie wage-scaled 2nd round pick.  

Yes, that is what it cost to ADD FOUR YEARS to his deal, making him a Bengal for FIVE YEARS.  If the Bengals opt out after three years (which is in the contract language), then he has had roughly $36 million added to his current deal of $1.7 Million making it just under $39 million for FOUR years.  And I sincerely hope he produces so much that they want to keep him for that last year, but the language protects the Bengals should he show a rapid decline.  

(09-02-2020, 12:40 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The problem is even if they choose to to get out after next seaon they'll have paid him 21 million dollars for 2 seaons of work.

His rookie contract would have paid him around 1.7 mil.  The franchise tag amount for running backs in 2020 is currently set at 10.278 million.  So by letting him play out his existing deal, and simple tagging him, it would have cost roughly 12 mil for the same two years.

Just food for thought, if somehow they do elect to opt out after 2021...

Personally, I would have let him play out this and tagged him next year if I thought he still had tread on his tires.  

The big issue with this deal is that it's an extension.  With an extension, the player is expected to take less than they could get next year on the open market in exchange for having the security of the up front money and injury guarantees.  Joe would not have gotten 4 years, $48 mil on the open market next year with the strength of the FA RB class and the salary cap actually expected to drop $20+million instead of increase.  It's a terrible deal for the Bengals.  The only saving grace is they can get our from under it in a couple of years due to the structure.

Joe Mixon signs through 2024.

I like it. We have a rookie qb, and really besides Mixon, Boyd and Burrow who else on Offense is the future? (Williams I hope).

This contract will be a steal after the year Mixon has.

Joe Mixon, on why he wanted to stay in Cincinnati: "I wanted to be a part of something special... I love our fans. I love my teammates. Upstairs, they definitely value me in a lot of ways that other people probably won't."

— Ben Baby (@Ben_Baby) September 2, 2020

(09-02-2020, 11:59 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: For those of you who are valuing his actual worth at 9.6 million.  I have a very simple question for you:  Why not just let him play out his rookie deal, and offer the 9.6 mil per at the end of the season then? 

Because if he had a great season his value might have gone up.

(09-02-2020, 11:59 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: That would've saved us a ton of money if that is truly is the worth that was just set.  But it's not.  His worth was set at 12 mil per.  That's exactly what it cost to add 4 more years to his exising deal.

Come on man, give it up.  

He is getting paid $48 million over 5 years (if he plays enough to get the yearly bonuses).  That is his value.  If his value was 12 per year he would get 60 million.

Mixon gives us no problems and is all about the Bengals and us fans.

I don't see why some still find fault with him.

(09-02-2020, 10:56 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Here are the contract details: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/joe-mixon-21789/

Cap hits by year:

2020 - 4.35 mil
2021- 10.7 mil
2022 - 10.7 mil
2023 - 12.1 mil
2024 - 12.3 mil

Note: What you're seeing in year 1 is a jump from 1.3 ml to 4.35, because the signing bonus is spread equally against the contract, and it containts a roster bonus.  This is 3.05 million in new money, that comes from the new extension.

Now let's look at the rest of the new money, which comes in the extended years.  And let's say we take our club option and cut bait after 2023, where we don't owe the 12.3 mil (the highest paid season).

10.7 + 10.7 + 12.1 = 33.5 mil

33.5 mil + 3.05 mil in added payment this year = 36.05 mil

Even if we don't exercise the last season, we will have added 36.05 million dollars to our cap to keep him an additional 3 years.

Translation = 36.05/3 = 12 mil

If I missed it I apologize, how much is guaranteed?

(09-01-2020, 03:50 PM)pally Wrote: $48,000,000

The #Bengals are giving RB Joe Mixon a 4-year deal worth $48M, source said. A nice payday for their feature back, who is now under contract for 5 years.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) September 1, 2020

I think we overpaid a bit, but still happy he is here. Good news, have him in his prime.