(08-31-2020, 05:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Sorry man, but it's not happening. Might as well accept it now. It was possible before, but the injuries the last couple years sealed it.

He'll simply never be able to statistically rise to/above the level of his peers of the era...

16 Years
L Fitzgerald: 1,378 catches/17,083 yards (12.4 AVG)/120 TDs ... Pro Bowl x11, All-Pro x1

14 Years
A Johnson: 1,062 catches/14,185 yards (13.4 AVG)/70 TDs ... Pro Bowl x7, All-Pro x2
R Wayne: 1,070 catches/14,343 yards (13.4 AVG)/82 TDs ... Pro Bowl x6, All-Pro x1
A Boldin: 1,076 catches/13,779 yards (12.8 AVG)/82 TDs ... Pro Bowl x3, All-Pro x0

13 Years
B Marshall: 970 catches/12,351 yards (12.7 AVG)/83 TDs ... Pro Bowl x6, All-Pro x1

12 Years
D Jackson: 598 catches/10,420 yards (17.4 AVG)/55 TDs ... Pro Bowl x3, All-Pro x0

11 Years
R White: 808 catches/10,863 yards (13.4 AVG)/63 TDs ... Pro Bowl x4, All-Pro x1

10 Years
A Brown: 841 catches/11,263 yards (13.4 AVG)/75 TDs ... Pro Bowl x7, All-Pro x4

9 Years
AJ Green: 602 catches/8,907 yards (14.8 AVG)/63 TDs  ... Pro Bowl x7, All-Pro x0
J Jones: 797 catches/12,125 yards (15.2 AVG)/57 TDs ... Pro Bowl x7, All-Pro x2
C Johnson: 731 catches/11,619 yards (15.9 AVG)/83 TDs ... Pro Bowl x6, All-Pro x3

8 Years
TY Hilton: 552 catches/8,589 yards (15.6 AVG)/45 TDs ... Pro Bowl x4, All-Pro x0

7 Years
D Hopkins: 632 catches/8,602 yards (13.6 AVG)/54 TDs ... Pro Bowl x4, All-Pro x3

6 Years
O Beckham: 464 catches/6,511 yards (14.0 AVG)/48 TDs ... Pro Bowl x3, All-Pro x0
M Evans: 462 catches/7,260 yards (15.7 AVG)/48 TDs ... Pro Bowl x3, All-Pro x0

4 Yards
M Thomas: 470 catches/5,512 yards (11.7 AVG)/32 TDs ... Pro Bowl x3, All-Pro x2
T Hill: 281 catches/4,115 yards (14.6 AVG)/32 TDs ... Pro Bowl x4, All-Pro x2



...this post turned out to be way more research/work than I originally anticipated. The point being that when it comes time to compare him to the other great WRs of his time, AJ Green will statistically come up lacking. It was already a slight issue before the injuries, but losing 29 games over the last 4 years pretty much put a nail in that coffin. Age 32-36 he would have to put up at least 1k yards each year (which is more than he's averaged so far in his first 9 years) to even keep himself in the conversation and I don't even know if that'll be enough the way that Hopkins/Evans/Thomas are racking up stats behind him and the fact that he'll always be compared to Julio Jones since they were two picks apart yet Julio has over 3k yards more in the same time already.


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ALL THAT SAID... I still full agree with your response. AJ Green starting rather than Damien Willis is about as huge of an upgrade as you possibly can get. That's like Whit instead of Ogbuehi.

Yeah, i was going to comment on that too but decided to hold off. Don't want to promote side-tracking the thread so i'll just say 'good job' on the research. Also, Julio Jones--the guy taken after Green--IS on track for the HoF... 

I picked Vonn. Yup I am a Buckeye fan.

(08-31-2020, 11:06 PM)Cicero Wrote: I picked Vonn. Yup I am a Buckeye fan.

I picked Jonah, but I'm a Vonn Bell fan myself. I remember watching him in that Army highschool all star game years ago. I'm a big fan of all the guys that won that last championship for OSU.

(08-31-2020, 11:09 PM)jason Wrote: I picked Jonah, but I'm a Vonn Bell fan myself. I remember watching him in that Army highschool all star game years ago. I'm a big fan of all the guys that won that last championship for OSU.

That signing finally undid the bitterness I had been harboring since Cam became a goddamn Stealer. Hopefully Jonah makes me forget how much it stung when Whitworth left us for the Rams.  

(08-31-2020, 11:35 PM)Cicero Wrote: That signing finally undid the bitterness I had been harboring since Cam became a goddamn Stealer. Hopefully Jonah makes me forget how much it stung when Whitworth left us for the Rams.  

I just pretend that Cam doesn't play in the NFL... And that he isn't really good.... Even Shazier. I pretended that was a different guy with the same follicle condition, that played the same position as the player I rooted for on Saturdays at the end of the 2000s...

They weren't on the 2014 team anyway. I also had no problem laughing when Pac-Man called Pryor gahbage ...

(08-31-2020, 09:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They were both in dips in their career during that period. Owens was hurt and missed 9 games in 2005, and while he was good, he wasn't his normal level of good in 2004 and 2006. Moss I think was having his attitude problems or something because while he was healthy (at least 13 starts in all 3 years) he failed to reach even 800 yards receiving in 2004 and 2006. Moss went to New England in 2007 (and even then only out-gained Chad by 53 yards that year despite having Tom Brady while Chad outgained Owens in 2007 by 85 yards).

2004-2006
Terrell Owens: 209 catches/3,143 yards (15.0 AVG)/33 TDs ... Pro Bowl x1, All-Pro x1
Randy Moss: 151 catches/2,325 yards (15.4 AVG)/24 TDs ... Pro Bowl x0, All-Pro x0
Chad Johnson: 279 catches/4,075 yards (14.6 AVG)/25 TDs ... Pro Bowl x3, All-Pro x2

During that 3 year span he was the best WR in the NFL, and the year before and after that 3 year span he was still easily Top-5 (90/1,355/10 in 2003 and 93/1,440/8 in 2007).

Mid-00s Chad was near-unstoppable.

2003-2007 Chad had 462 catches/6,870 yards (14.9 AVG)/43 TD... that's 92.4 catches/1,375 yards (14.9)/8.6 TDs per year while playing the Steelers/Ravens both constantly had elite defenses and defenses in the NFL could really get their hands on and hit a WR.

Think about that. Way tougher rules and defenses, and Chad was averaging enough yards per year in that 5 year span that even the average would be AJ Green's 2nd highest year ever. It's really impressive. Even more so when you realize that from 2004-2006, the NFL was averaging only 4 QBs that threw for at least 4,000 yards each year.

That was one hell of a run for Chad in those years, no question.

(08-31-2020, 11:35 PM)Cicero Wrote: That signing finally undid the bitterness I had been harboring since Cam became a goddamn Stealer. Hopefully Jonah makes me forget how much it stung when Whitworth left us for the Rams.  

I know Mincah Fitzpatrick is more of a FS like Bates, but can you imagine if Bell ended up in pittsburg instead of Cincy?  Thank God he is here.  I love this acquisition as well.  

(09-02-2020, 12:48 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I know Mincah Fitzpatrick is more of a FS like Bates, but can you imagine if Bell ended up in pittsburg instead of Cincy?  Thank God he is here.  I love this acquisition as well.  

Seeing Vonn in piss and black would have been awful. Zeke in Cowboy colors is bad enough. 

(08-31-2020, 08:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You’re the stats guy, so I’ll take your word, but what about TO and Moss during that time?

From '04-'06 Torry Holt was the only WR in the NFL that could be argued to be better than Chad.  Torry had 10 more receptions and 4 more tds than Chad, but Chad had 184 more yards.

I think Holt is the most underrated WR in NFL history.  Not saying he is the greatest ever,  but you never hear his name mentioned among the best. Over an 8 year stretch ('00-'07)  Holt averaged 94 receptions for 1384 yards.  He had 21 more receptions and 1273 more yards than any other player in the league over that span. His yards per target (8.93) was also the best among the 16 players with at least 500 receptions. 

Despite being uberly enamored with the Defensive additions, I'm going with Jonah Williams.

Why? Because you need to have a lead, in order for the Defense to be able to protect it. Not only is Williams a good pass protector, he's also a very good run blocker. His addition to the OL will make perhaps the biggest impact on not only our Rookie QB's success, but the Offense as a unit.

(09-02-2020, 07:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: From '04-'06 Torry Holt was the only WR in the NFL that could be argued to be better than Chad.  Torry had 10 more receptions and 4 more tds than Chad, but Chad had 184 more yards.

I think Holt is the most underrated WR in NFL history.  Not saying he is the greatest ever,  but you never hear his name mentioned among the best. Over an 8 year stretch ('00-'07)  Holt averaged 94 receptions for 1384 yards.  He had 21 more receptions and 1273 more yards than any other player in the league over that span. His yards per target (8.93) was also the best among the 16 players with at least 500 receptions. 

Good stuff on Holt, should be recognized as one of the greatest ever.

(09-02-2020, 07:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Despite being uberly enamored with the Defensive additions, I'm going with Jonah Williams.  

Why?  Because you need to have a lead, in order for the Defense to be able to protect it.  Not only is Williams a good pass protector, he's also a very good run blocker.  His addition to the OL will make perhaps the biggest impact on not only our Rookie QB's success, but the Offense as a unit.

All great points as usual Sunset. It was just that our Defense was so bad against the run last year that I voted for Reader over
Jonah. But Jonah protects our future Franchise QB's blindside and he can open up the run game which takes pressure off of him.

This was a tough one, I just went with Reader cause I hate to get run on and I haven't seen how good Jonah is in the NFL yet 
but from what he did in college and a few clips in TC. But everything I have seen and heard shows he is the real deal man.

(09-02-2020, 07:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: From '04-'06 Torry Holt was the only WR in the NFL that could be argued to be better than Chad.  Torry had 10 more receptions and 4 more tds than Chad, but Chad had 184 more yards.

I think Holt is the most underrated WR in NFL history.  Not saying he is the greatest ever,  but you never hear his name mentioned among the best. Over an 8 year stretch ('00-'07)  Holt averaged 94 receptions for 1384 yards.  He had 21 more receptions and 1273 more yards than any other player in the league over that span. His yards per target (8.93) was also the best among the 16 players with at least 500 receptions. 

He was a 7x Pro Bowler and made the All Decade Team idk that he was that underrated...

You’re right in that he’s not usually one of the first WR’s that come to mind when talking about the all time greats though.

I clicked 'Other' before scrolling down to the first post.

Otherwise yeah Jonah Williams for better or worse. A first round blind-side tackle is a massive new change due to the importance of the position and where he was drafted to boot.

I'd rank them like this:

1) Burrow (Dalton)
2) WR boost (Green & Ross healthy, Higgins drafted)
3) OL boost (Jonah healthy, Jordan/Johnson hopefully leveling up, XSF, Price healthy)
4) Reader & Daniels (would be higher, but we lost Tupou, Wren, & Glasgow)
5) LB makeover (Bynes, Wilson, ADG, Bailey, Calitro)

The DBs would be up there if Waynes was healthy.

If Jonah is who we think he is than that makes the Offensive Line a greatly improved unit!

(09-02-2020, 06:30 PM)Cicero Wrote: Seeing Vonn in piss and black would have been awful. Zeke in Cowboy colors is bad enough. 

Yep.  Hated seeing Shazier go there as well.

Funny "Proud Dad Moment" story:

My son was in what is called bantam football here (I think it was 4th grade) and they have a uniform day that you go and get your helmet, pads, etc.  While collecting our stuff, there was a local kid that was some backup fullback for the steelers. The nice lady collecting our money said "Mr. ((forget his name) from the pittsburgh steelers is over there getting pictures taken with the kids.  My son politely smiled and said "No thanks".

Love him.  

(09-03-2020, 08:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yep.  Hated seeing Shazier go there as well.

Funny "Proud Dad Moment" story:

My son was in what is called bantam football here (I think it was 4th grade) and they have a uniform day that you go and get your helmet, pads, etc.  While collecting our stuff, there was a local kid that was some backup fullback for the steelers. The nice lady collecting our money said "Mr. ((forget his name) from the pittsburgh steelers is over there getting pictures taken with the kids.  My son politely smiled and said "No thanks".

Love him.  

That is a well raised son right there. 

(09-03-2020, 08:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yep.  Hated seeing Shazier go there as well.

Funny "Proud Dad Moment" story:

My son was in what is called bantam football here (I think it was 4th grade) and they have a uniform day that you go and get your helmet, pads, etc.  While collecting our stuff, there was a local kid that was some backup fullback for the steelers. The nice lady collecting our money said "Mr. ((forget his name) from the pittsburgh steelers is over there getting pictures taken with the kids.  My son politely smiled and said "No thanks".

Love him.